Looters

Off Topic
181

[quote]futuredave wrote:
And we should all just rally around the flag and shut our goshdurn mouths.[/quote]

Never said that, Davy. There’s a time and a place for the kind of childish bitcing, moaning and Monday morning QBing you are doing. I think this is neither.

Are you doing a damn thing to help? Somehow I think you are just running your mouth. Either you are part of the solution, or you are part of the problem. Youseem to be the latter with your hatefilled blather.

BTW,
If you like Jesus - as you said you did, why do you constantly side with the religous zealots that murdered him? Please just dont say you like me - your ‘friendship’ would be a death nail. No, you are a Jesus hater.

I didn’t know calling bullshit on childish behavior such as yours was so unchristian. Please show me where voicing an opinion is a sin. But when you are grasping at straws to make an argument, I can understand you making shit up. Nice try.

Really. But saying you remind me of a spoiled child? And the best you can do is come back and tell me how bad of a christian I am by misquoting James? You are indeed touched with a hatred that is quite comical to see manifested.

Good job, Davy.

182

For the record, here is one of those sites again:
http://s1.amazon.com/paypage/PELYGQVJ8Q7IB/103-3136838-6431855

It takes all of 2 minutes to donate something. Even less time if you type fast.

183

[quote]vroom wrote:

However, it seems to me that agencies responsible for handling disasters should have an ability to spot an impending disaster and then pre-ship thousands of pallets of food, water, first aid kits and perhaps blankets to pre-identified semi-secure locations for later distribution.

To try and stay apolitical, consider California. Some day the big one will hit. If you want to be prepared for an emergency, responsible agencies should have supplies stockpiled several hours away from the danger zone. They should have the authority to pre-ship material or pre-activate personnel for semi-predictable situations. Yes, it means money will be wasted at times.[/quote]

This needs to lead to a complete disaster recovery program for the entire US. We need staging appoints across the country that can be stocked at all times. These need to have overlapping zones of influence. They need volunteer groups pre-trained to handle distribution.

There has been talk in some other forums about mandatory military service for all, maybe more people would be more accepting of mandatory disaster relief service? Over the course of 2-4 years if you are not in the military you have to attend regular classes/drills on how to handle these situations. It would give the country a great base to draw on in the future.

184

[quote]

However, it seems to me that agencies responsible for handling disasters should have an ability to spot an impending disaster and then pre-ship thousands of pallets of food, water, first aid kits and perhaps blankets to pre-identified semi-secure locations for later distribution.

To try and stay apolitical, consider California. Some day the big one will hit. If you want to be prepared for an emergency, responsible agencies should have supplies stockpiled several hours away from the danger zone. They should have the authority to pre-ship material or pre-activate personnel for semi-predictable situations. Yes, it means money will be wasted at times.

This needs to lead to a complete disaster recovery program for the entire US. We need staging appoints across the country that can be stocked at all times. These need to have overlapping zones of influence. They need volunteer groups pre-trained to handle distribution. [/quote]

This has all been done. Every bit of it. Some of this has been around over 50 years. The US first began a system of stockpiles in the 1950s with its Civil defense shelters. There are huge stocks of recue supplies prepositioned around the country and thousands of trained volunteers. This country has a huge capacity for self-recovery.

You’re missing or ignoring critical points affecting the mechanics of distribution in this situation.

  1. Security. There is no plan (as far as I know) for rescuers to FIGHT the people they’re trying to rescue. I have never heard of a scenario like this where snipers shoot at the helicopters, boats and buses coming to the rescue.

  2. Geography. Typically, in most disasters, the event ends and the rescue begins and gains momentum quickly. Even in floods, people are ususally able to walk away from the flooded area and reach safety. Not so in NO. The city is like an island and the rescuers have to reach every pocket. This creates a need for triage. So when Shep Smith shows the dead guy on the road, what he’s not showing is the hundreds who are getting relief elsewhere.

  3. Incompetence and corruption. The finger-pointing has already started. Someone above posted an article about the Fed taking money away from NO. Look . . . NO has been there for 200 years. The technology to improve dykes, pumps, sewage, communications and roads has been around for decades. It hasn’t happened because of incompetence and corruption at local and state level.

In most disasters (numerous California earthquakes, Hurricane Andrews, Hurricane Camille, 9-11) the basic infrastructure remained sound inside the area and outside it. Not so in NO. EVERYTHING failed . . . roads, dykes, communications, water, electricity, law and order, medical . . . it all just STOPPED.

My advice

Turn off the TV. The human brain and psyche isn’t wired to soak in these types of images 16 hours a day.

185

[quote]JJJJ wrote:

…
[/quote]

I was not refering to the particular logistics of dealing with NO. I was thinking of long term lessons.

I was trying to get at the idea that if every citizen in the US has gone through training on how to survive in disaster situations and knew where to attempt to go in disaster situations for the areas that they lived in, we may prevent some of the organizational chaos.

The supplies stored in current situations are not suffcient to support a large scale disaster, or multiple disasters to the same area.

186

[quote]Professor X wrote:
tjd772 wrote:
What the hell is everyone talking about they dont mind that people are stealing food and water to survive? That is total bullshit! My area got hit by 4 (as in FUCKING 4!) hurricanes last year and nobody looted the fucking grocery store! People have been in the area since BEFORE the storm giving out FREE shit and what happens? Gang wars in the Superdome and fucking thievery! Stealing is wrong, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And shooting at the people that are trying to help them? bullshit on top of bullshit. These are not good people doing what they need to to survive, these are fucking low-lifes who just needed an excuse. My friend was in Louissiana and Mississippi at the time the storm hit, and do you know what the first places to get looted were? It wasnt the Piggly-Wiggly for damn sure, it was gun shops! All the social commentary on this is totally bunk as far as i’m corncerned. If someone broke into your house and stole something, even if they needed it to survive, you know your ass would call the cops at the very least cuz that son of a bitch is a CRIMINAL! Sorry for the rant, but this is a discussion i’ve had with too many people that spit out that bleeding heart bullshit that i know would never happen if they were in that situation.

I currently live in the same area that got hit by four hurricanes. I lost my previous apartment in one of them…and not once were the conditions anything like they are in New Orleans. I am currious now, exactly what part of Florida do you live in where you had no access to food for nearly a week, there were dead bodies floating in the water and people were trapped in their attics for days? I must have missed all of this. These people are TRAPPED in New Orleans. The people who could get out, did already. The devestation in Florida is nothing like what New Orleans is facing now and I am amazed that you even took that stance.

I was right here when there was no gas and nothing to eat. I had to drive out of state to get food one day. I slept in my office until I was able to find a place to stay and I would never relate that to what is going on in that state.

Why would anyone be against someone getting food to eat when an entire city has been evacuated? 50" tvs and breaking into hospitals are a different matter. [/quote]

I have to agree with Professor X on this issue. I have family members in the West Palm area that completely lost their homes and all their belongings except the clothes they were wearing. As tragic as that was, and as long as it has taken them to get back on their feet, it is still not any comparison to what has happened with this storm.

It would have been optimal for everyone to have evacuated, but as I think everyone would agree, that is not 100% possible. There are many reasons that people did not leave, some legitimate, some not. Either way, the fact remains that they are trapped. I have no problems with people procuring necessary essentials for the survival of their family. I am sure everyone who has posted on this thread would do the same, “criminal” as you worded it, activity in order to survive.

I am sure it is safe to say these people are in shock. Even though I don’t think any of us who have not experienced this can truly relate, I can sit here and try to imagine how I would react. Imagine being alone, or with just a handful of people who you may or may not know. Imagine your entire city flooded with water mix with sewage, gas, garbage, dead animals, dead bodies, and all manner of filth. Imagine, although in some extreme state of shock, that you are starting to come to the realization that there is a good chance that everything you own may be destroyed including your home, your family, every earthly possession, your place of employment, your pets, your clothes, everything. You are soaking wet, you are hungry, you are thirsty, you are extremely afraid, and you have no means of communication and no way of knowing if and when help will arrive. Can you imagine this? I know I can’t. And I am sure I haven’t even captured a percentage of reality in what I just type.

In this condition, and possibly one much worse, do you know how you would react or behave? And please realize I am not pleading the case for the people who are looting, pillaging, stealing medicine from the hospitals, raping, and behaving like uncivilized beings. I am talking about the people, and they are the majority, who are not behaving like this. I can not even begin to imagine being in their shoes. Can anyone else?

I don’t think any of us that have not directly experienced this storm can truly understand the magnitude of the damage that has occurred. The pictures alone make me overwhelmed and sad, and I know that they are not capable of relaying what it would be like to experience it in person.

There have been several resources posted on how you can contribute. If you are concerned and able, please find some way to contribute. Please don’t take this statement wrong, but I would like to think that anyone on this site, having access to a computer via home, work, school, or library, must have something to contribute. Anything, even just one dollar, will help. I have several friends that are being offered time away from work to go and physically help, once they are ready for volunteers. They would for large corporations, so that is a luxury they have. For those of us who work at smaller companies, along with several other reasons, we may not have to capability to go and help. Either way, I am sure there is something all of us can contribute to this cause.

Christopher

187

[quote]monkey_space wrote:
There have been several resources posted on how you can contribute. If you are concerned and able, please find some way to contribute. Please don’t take this statement wrong, but I would like to think that anyone on this site, having access to a computer via home, work, school, or library, must have something to contribute. [/quote]

http://s1.amazon.com/paypage/PELYGQVJ8Q7IB/103-3136838-6431855

It’s simple.

188

can anyone tell me how to donate from Austria? The american red cross tells me my cc is not accepted, could it be that they cannot process european cards? That?s retarded.

Anyway, does anybody know an at-least semi reputable organisation that has no such troubles?

189

So, a question for those that say “all” looting is evil.

You and your family, including children, are standing outside a store. Inside you can see food and water. Your children are severly dehydrated and starving.

Do you:

A) Stay outside and let family members die?

B) Break the glass and keep your family alive?

If you say A, because looting is evil, I suspect you are either a liar or simply totally incapable of understanding the realities of life.

Survival is job one…

Again, like others, hampering relief efforts, pillaging for profit or roving in gangs causing strife is NOT what I’m talking about.

190

[quote]vroom wrote:
So, a question for those that say “all” looting is evil.

You and your family, including children, are standing outside a store. Inside you can see food and water. Your children are severly dehydrated and starving.

Do you:

A) Stay outside and let family members die?

B) Break the glass and keep your family alive?

If you say A, because looting is evil, I suspect you are either a liar or simply totally incapable of understanding the realities of life.

Survival is job one…

Again, like others, hampering relief efforts, pillaging for profit or roving in gangs causing strife is NOT what I’m talking about.[/quote]

I think this was already discussed in this thread. If people need food & water, take it. I doubt even the rightful owners would object, and if they were there, they’d probably be giving it away. I’ve seen people carting off multiple boxes of Nike’s, plasma TV’s, & designer clothes. You can’t eat those things.

191

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
I’ve seen people carting off multiple boxes of Nike’s, plasma TV’s, & designer clothes. You can’t eat those things.
[/quote]

I have also seen the same footage replayed and rehashed so many times that I swear I could pick these people out in a line up.

192

[quote]vroom wrote:
So, a question for those that say “all” looting is evil.

You and your family, including children, are standing outside a store. Inside you can see food and water. Your children are severly dehydrated and starving.

Do you:

A) Stay outside and let family members die?

B) Break the glass and keep your family alive?

If you say A, because looting is evil, I suspect you are either a liar or simply totally incapable of understanding the realities of life.

Survival is job one…

Again, like others, hampering relief efforts, pillaging for profit or roving in gangs causing strife is NOT what I’m talking about.[/quote]

I agree with reddog, vroom. I don’t think anyone has said “all” looting is wrong. If there were - I didn’t see it.

193

Reddog, but as you tell me, your point has been made before too. I even addressed it as well…

So, your point?

194

Wow, the Astrodome is packed to capacity-has that ever happened before?

This is the second time that the Astrodome has been used in a national crisis-the first was back in the 1970’s when the killer bees invaded Texas. A man driving a vw beetle accidently had his horn go off and it caused the killer bees to swarm the car-he then drove it into the Astrodome where they sealed off the entrance and used the temperature control panels to drop the temperature low enough to kill the bees and thus avert a national disaster-I am pretty sure that is how it happened, though I was a boy at the time.

195

[quote]Keith Wassung wrote:
Wow, the Astrodome is packed to capacity-has that ever happened before?

This is the second time that the Astrodome has been used in a national crisis-the first was back in the 1970’s when the killer bees invaded Texas. A man driving a vw beetle accidently had his horn go off and it caused the killer bees to swarm the car-he then drove it into the Astrodome where they sealed off the entrance and used the temperature control panels to drop the temperature low enough to kill the bees and thus avert a national disaster-I am pretty sure that is how it happened, though I was a boy at the time.

[/quote]

Your memory sounds like an action movie. My grandmother used to work at the Astrodome. I remember getting in free for some concerts and no, it has never been that filled at least as far as I can remember. That place is so large (and the accoustics so affected by the shape of it) that it is rumored to have a near 8 second delay of sound from one end to the next (that may not be true either but hell, your bee story wasn’t exactly “News at 11”).

196

[quote]rainjack wrote:
futuredave wrote:
Are you doing a damn thing to help? Somehow I think you are just running your mouth.[/quote]

You think a lot of things. As a matter of fact, my contribution is in the four figures and that doesn’t include decimal points. If I haven’t bragged about it, it’s because I was raised with the following admonition from Matthew 6:

“Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.”

[quote]
BTW,
If you like Jesus - as you said you did, why do you constantly side with the religous zealots that murdered him? No, you are a Jesus hater.[/quote]

According to your religion, his death was necessary for your salvation. So get off your high horse about how he died, since, even if it’s true, Jesus himself said, “Father, forgive them for the know not what to do.”

As for voicing your opinion, you call “bullshit” I call “hypocrite.” If you want to be “Christian” there’s a way to do it. Reference any post by Monkey_space to see how a Christian talks. I mean, come on, it’s thread after thread after thread of “Fuck you’s” etc. I’m not the first one who’s felt this way about the level of vitriol in your communications.

By the way, his wholiness GWB called the relief results unacceptable this morning. What a spoiled f’ing kid, huh?

197

[quote]Keith Wassung wrote:
Wow, the Astrodome is packed to capacity-has that ever happened before?

This is the second time that the Astrodome has been used in a national crisis-the first was back in the 1970’s when the killer bees invaded Texas. A man driving a vw beetle accidently had his horn go off and it caused the killer bees to swarm the car-he then drove it into the Astrodome where they sealed off the entrance and used the temperature control panels to drop the temperature low enough to kill the bees and thus avert a national disaster-I am pretty sure that is how it happened, though I was a boy at the time.

[/quote]

Is that for real? (Forgive me - I wasn’t born until 1977.) There are still killer bees out here. My friend’s mother was attacked by them and hospitalized for several days.

198

[quote]vroom wrote:
Reddog, but as you tell me, your point has been made before too. I even addressed it as well…

Again, like others, hampering relief efforts, pillaging for profit or roving in gangs causing strife is NOT what I’m talking about.

So, your point?[/quote]

It’s like deja vu all over again…

199

yeah, it was a movie, probably a “made for tv movie” that I saw back in 73 or 74…thought someone else might remember it and of course nothing gets past Prof X (or is that Prof “10”)

200

To be fair to the Astrodome -

I think the ‘capacity’ was 10,000 for the storm victims. They’re not talking about seating capacity, but living capacity.

But - I have been wrong before.