Looking for Westside Template

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:
This was really good. Really confusing when different people say different things. Im still readong the blogs and articles on the westside site to get as much info as i can. Ive got the ME days figured out but the percentages and that for dynamic day and the things that get me confused. Can progress still be made without bands on dynamic day?[/quote]

Yes. You don’t need chains or bands to do dynamic work. Worry less about the specific percentage and more about keeping the bar moving quickly. Use the percentages as a basis for where you should be aiming for, sometimes you can go a little higher and still keep it moving quickly.[/quote]
Alright sweet, it says i can do illegally wide benches for a 6RM as a ME exercise, is this true?

A good intro: http://www.elitefts.com/documents/getting_ready.htm

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
There is a lot of conflicting info on here and it seems like a lot of overcomplication on very simple concepts. I will lay it out to you as I understand it (which is pretty good because I am pretty sure I am the only one on here with the westside certification to my name).

A lot of people say to drop dynamic efforts for various reasons. This is not smart. I feel dynamic efforts are the most important aspect of the whole westside system. This is the only time you have to work on form in the main lifts and is the only way you can keep track of gains (via total work completed). Once you figure it out, you can predict what you are capable of at a meet based on what you did on your dynamic day. Thats a little to complicated for a beginner. Anyway, here is exactly what you are going to do:

Dynamic Speed Squats:

Week 1: 50% bar weight plus 25% band tension for 12 sets of 2 reps w/45s rest between sets
Week 2: 55% bar weight and then the same as above
Week 3: 60% bar weight, 25% band tension, 10 sets of 2 reps
Week 4: 50% bar weight, no bands, 6 sets of 2 reps (deload week)

When you get done with those go straight to Dynamic Deadlifts:

50% bar weight for 10 singles. Do this everyweek. Change the band tension, chain combination, or both every week. Week 4 is just straight bar weight for 5 singles

Next up pick 3 exercises that work points/muscles that fail first when you are near maximal weights. Those are your weaknesses so work the shit out of them. Advice Louie told me about sets and reps, do as much as you feel you need to do. I would suggest 5-6 sets of 10-20 on general exercises (GHRs, Hamstring Curls, Back Ext., whatever else) and 4-5 sets of 3-8 for specific exercises (Rack Pulls, Good Mornings, Pause Squats, basically anything done with a barbell).

After that, train abs. Very Very heavy. Stuff like leg raises with added weight, front squat holds for 5, 8, and 10 second max’s, fallouts with balst straps, or the god awful ab wheel.

For Dynamic Bench:

Always use 40% for 12 sets of 3 reps. Change the bar, bands, chains, whatever else you can switch up, every weeks. Same rules apply for assistance work.

These dynamic days should go pretty quick. Try to be done all of the main work in about 45mins.

Max Effort Lower/Upper:

Here is the fun part. Pick an exercise, work up to the heaviest weight you are capable of on that day for a single, then go do assitance work. It is not more complicated than that. Switch the exercise every week.

There are other programming aspects like how to seperate the actual phases of the system for optimal results but, you dont need to worry about those when you are just starting out.

Let me know if you have any questions and I should be able to answer them. Hope this helped.[/quote]

This was really good. Really confusing when different people say different things. Im still readong the blogs and articles on the westside site to get as much info as i can. Ive got the ME days figured out but the percentages and that for dynamic day and the things that get me confused. Can progress still be made without bands on dynamic day?[/quote]

I would strongly suggest spending the 40 bucks and getting a pair of light bands and a pair of minis. There is a huge reactive strength component that can’t be mimiced without bands. They speed up the acceleration of gravity (the weight on the bar goes down faster). This trains your connective tissue to store energy more efficiently and release it faster during the reversal of the lift. Progress can still be made but you see as much of a transfer to your competition lifts.

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:
This was really good. Really confusing when different people say different things. Im still readong the blogs and articles on the westside site to get as much info as i can. Ive got the ME days figured out but the percentages and that for dynamic day and the things that get me confused. Can progress still be made without bands on dynamic day?[/quote]

Yes. You don’t need chains or bands to do dynamic work. Worry less about the specific percentage and more about keeping the bar moving quickly. Use the percentages as a basis for where you should be aiming for, sometimes you can go a little higher and still keep it moving quickly.[/quote]
Alright sweet, it says i can do illegally wide benches for a 6RM as a ME exercise, is this true?[/quote]

Yes, that’s fine. Westside guys will go through a 2 week phase every once and a while where they wont do any max upper work and just stick with rep work with dbs or illegal wides. A good option if you walk into the gym and feel like shit. haha.

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.[/quote]
Ok now im confused lol am i basing my dynamic squat off my box squat, normal squat, or the exercise i did that week? And the ME lifts change every week or every 2 weeks?

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.[/quote]
Ok now im confused lol am i basing my dynamic squat off my box squat, normal squat, or the exercise i did that week? And the ME lifts change every week or every 2 weeks?[/quote]

All dynamic percentages are based off your competition max’s. The weights only go up when you hit a PR in a meet. Yes, the ME lifts change every week.

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.[/quote]
Ok now im confused lol am i basing my dynamic squat off my box squat, normal squat, or the exercise i did that week? And the ME lifts change every week or every 2 weeks?[/quote]

All dynamic percentages are based off your competition max’s. The weights only go up when you hit a PR in a meet. Yes, the ME lifts change every week.[/quote]
What if your not competing? Are are things like floor press, rack lockout, incline press done with closer grip?

Squat Wiide and Bench close at the beginning. 7 months of westside training and a 70# increase in each of the big three…without injury. Be Consistent, get solid rest and solid nutrition and you will get strong (er) !

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.[/quote]
Ok now im confused lol am i basing my dynamic squat off my box squat, normal squat, or the exercise i did that week? And the ME lifts change every week or every 2 weeks?[/quote]

All dynamic percentages are based off your competition max’s. The weights only go up when you hit a PR in a meet. Yes, the ME lifts change every week.[/quote]
What if your not competing? Are are things like floor press, rack lockout, incline press done with closer grip?
[/quote]
Feel free to bash me on this Storm, but this guy’s new and young, so here’s what I do and I think you can too. I up my max (on squat and dead) 10 lbs each cycle (for calculating DE) unless the bar slows down. I just don’t compete that often, so this has worked so far and especially since I am relatively new and am still making rapid gains. I am sure Storm is more knowledgable than I am but I think variation of this system is probably good if you are a newer lifter like myself.

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]
I was thinking do like 50-60% then if its really light then just put it up, and go by feel of speed and make sure it is fast and controlled, is this better? so i just go by how its feeling rather than going by numbers

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.[/quote]
Ok now im confused lol am i basing my dynamic squat off my box squat, normal squat, or the exercise i did that week? And the ME lifts change every week or every 2 weeks?[/quote]

All dynamic percentages are based off your competition max’s. The weights only go up when you hit a PR in a meet. Yes, the ME lifts change every week.[/quote]
What if your not competing? Are are things like floor press, rack lockout, incline press done with closer grip?
[/quote]
Feel free to bash me on this Storm, but this guy’s new and young, so here’s what I do and I think you can too. I up my max (on squat and dead) 10 lbs each cycle (for calculating DE) unless the bar slows down. I just don’t compete that often, so this has worked so far and especially since I am relatively new and am still making rapid gains. I am sure Storm is more knowledgable than I am but I think variation of this system is probably good if you are a newer lifter like myself.[/quote]
I was thinking just go by feel of the weight, if its too light then just put up the weight

[quote]zackysmith wrote:
I was thinking just go by feel of the weight, if its too light then just put up the weight[/quote]
I think that’s ok. Just don’t get carried away and remember that lighter and fast is better than heavier and slow for these.

This is exactly why its easiest to learn when you have training partners who have been training this way for a while. It gets confusing sometimes.

So if ME lifts aren’t what make you stronger, and DE lifts don’t change until a new max is set in competition, what does make you stronger on this system?

Is it the RE work?

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:
This is exactly why its easiest to learn when you have training partners who have been training this way for a while. It gets confusing sometimes.[/quote]
Yea true, all the people around me are training like bodybuilders lol they know nothing about strength

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
So if ME lifts aren’t what make you stronger, and DE lifts don’t change until a new max is set in competition, what does make you stronger on this system?

Is it the RE work?[/quote]

RE builds muscle mass (that’s why bodybuilding routines focus on this type of work)
ME work trains muscle fibers and neurons to fire optimally and together
DE work trains muscle fibers to contract with maximal speeds
GPP increases work capacity, allowing for more intense workloads

do wide grip lat pulldowns or close grip pulldowns affect the bench more?

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I hope I’m not derailing, but how come Westside only has people practice the main lifts on DE days? I feel that my squat form is the most glaring weakness in my squat and I know one of the core principles of Westside is to work your weaknesses. Wouldn’t it make sense to do more of my comp squat for like 10x5 or 10x3 at a manageable weight to lock in proper form or are there better ways to get more squat form practice in?[/quote]

DE days happen once a week and the volume is generally 30% higher on the main lifts of the day (dynamic squats compared to whatever the ME Exercise is for that same week). That is a lot of work being perfromed on the squat.

The whole point of max efforts is to work on improving neural muscular coordination with heavy weights. Max singles DO NOT make you any stronger. They do teach you how to take advantage of your leverages and strain with heavy weight.

Choosing ME exercises that work either the portion of your lift where form breaks down or that works the muscle groups that are failing during the lift will improve your form. Assuming you maintain good form and dont look like a cat taking a shit 3/4 of the way through the lift.

Also, this is where extra workouts come in. Odds are, your form is a glaring weakness not because of a musuclar weakness but because of a stability/mobility problem. Film and really analyze your squats. Does your upper back cave over (cat taking a shit reference)? Scapular Stability problem. Do your knees cave? Hip External Rotator Mobility Problem. Taking 10 mins out of your day to work on these little problems will greatly help your lifts and your general mobility as a human.

Sorry, kinda rambled on a litte, I hope I made my point. haha.[/quote]
Ok now im confused lol am i basing my dynamic squat off my box squat, normal squat, or the exercise i did that week? And the ME lifts change every week or every 2 weeks?[/quote]

All dynamic percentages are based off your competition max’s. The weights only go up when you hit a PR in a meet. Yes, the ME lifts change every week.[/quote]
What if your not competing? Are are things like floor press, rack lockout, incline press done with closer grip?
[/quote]
Feel free to bash me on this Storm, but this guy’s new and young, so here’s what I do and I think you can too. I up my max (on squat and dead) 10 lbs each cycle (for calculating DE) unless the bar slows down. I just don’t compete that often, so this has worked so far and especially since I am relatively new and am still making rapid gains. I am sure Storm is more knowledgable than I am but I think variation of this system is probably good if you are a newer lifter like myself.[/quote]

This sounds fine. The only problem is, the whole point of the Westside system is to get stronger for meets. As long as bar speed is fast on every rep and an extreme amount of fatigue is not accumulated, then you are good.

[quote]zackysmith wrote:
do wide grip lat pulldowns or close grip pulldowns affect the bench more?[/quote]

Dude, the whole program is about personal experimentation and finding out what works for YOU.

There is a lot of great information in this thread, but honestly I think you’d benefit from something more structured and basic, especially if you aren’t competing, and especially with how young you seem in your training. Was there any reason you didn’t want to follow 5/3/1 originally? What about the Juggernaut Method?

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:
do wide grip lat pulldowns or close grip pulldowns affect the bench more?[/quote]

Dude, the whole program is about personal experimentation and finding out what works for YOU.

There is a lot of great information in this thread, but honestly I think you’d benefit from something more structured and basic, especially if you aren’t competing, and especially with how young you seem in your training. Was there any reason you didn’t want to follow 5/3/1 originally? What about the Juggernaut Method?[/quote]
Whats the juggernaut method? Im following 5 3 1 BBB atm but i like having information about other programs too. Just for knowledge sake and also future uses