Looking for Feedback on Lift Routine

If it truly is working, then stick with and dont listend to everyone. But it sounds to me based on your lifts and the fact that you created this thread that it isn’t working.

Here is my opinions on all of this.

-Flat benching with 95’s isn’t going to give you a big upper body. Unless maybe you do it 50 times.
-Raising your DB bench to something like 125’s x 20 or 150’s x 10, that might give you a big upper body.
-Why so much machine work?
-If you are able to do some kind of incline/vertical press do it
-More strength, less volume/frequency

Latly, whatever you can do to raise your pressing/pulling strength is what you need to do. If what you are doing now is giving you consistent increases in poundages EVERY WEEK and you aren’t getting run down, or having nagging injuries, then stick with it.

But likely you’ll need to cut the upper body work down to 2-3x per week, and have some sessions that are more strength focused in order to progress to HEAVY weights.

[quote]forlife wrote:
josh86 wrote:
I don’t understand asking for feedback and advice then doing nothing but arguing against what people are trying to give you.

I’m asking people to explain their reasons beyond “everyone else is doing it”. Again, why is doing 5 chest exercises across 5 days so much more intense than doing 5 chest exercises the same day? I’m willing to listen to viewpoints that have some rationale behind them, but I’m not going to blindly jump on the bandwagon just because people quote the party line.

Good point on shoulder presses, I do need to work more of those into my routine.[/quote]

Who does 5 chest exercises in one day?
I’d do 2 main exercises and perhaps a pump exercise if I were doing a 6-way split or a 5-way… If you can do 5 chest exercises in one day and actually do each of them justice… Then you’re deluding yourself and being pussy :slight_smile:

5 exercises over 5 days allow you to use more weight/do more reps on exercises 2-5 than you would be able to if you did them all in one day, of course. However, doing them in one day leaves the rest of the weak for your supporting structures to regenerate and possibly even adapt to some degree.

Plus due to you being weaker on exercise 2-5 if you were to do all 5 in one day, the overall stress on your body per week would be smaller than if you were to spread all exercises out.

(of course I’m not saying that training everything once a week is thus the best thing one can do, just an explanation using 2 extremes)

Anyway, the potential issue is that your joints and tendons don’t have much of a metabolism of their own and their ability to repair and remodel themselves is very limited.
Also, shoulder instability(even if you balance out pressing and pulling 1 to 1) and injuries + tendonitis in the joints etc seems to be more common/occuring earlier in people who train their bodyparts at a very high frequency… 3+ times a week, for example.

The joints’/tendons’ repair process is basically constantly being interrupted, and while muscles can be trained practically 6 or even 7 times a week with the right routine and still somehow adapt, this does not hold true for joints/tendons/etc.

Over time, that may very well catch up and then you suddenly find yourself with a rather nasty level of joint/tendon degradation, tendonitis, whatever. Thanks to not being the youngest anymore, that may happen faster and in a more severe fashion than it does in/for young guys…

Of course your strength is still limited and that may be saving you right now, but do listen to your body for any signs of trouble…

I sure hope you’ll be able to stay healthy, good luck.

Thanks to all for taking the time to share your thoughts.

CC, as always I appreciate your input. I agree that I would benefit from more direct shoulder presses, although I do hit rear delts pretty hard with my rows. I will try to add some more hamstring-focused lifts to the workout as well.

I push to exhaustion or near exhaustion on every lift. To answer your question, I haven’t experienced any significant injuries or chronic fatigue so far. I do get pain in my forearms, which probably relates to your point about tendons/joints taking longer to heal. Other than that, it’s just the regular soreness which I always recover from over the weekend.

I’m continuing to progress regularly on most lifts, although my chest lifts are slower to progress lately. Ironically, I’ve received the most comments on my chest the past few months, and have had to give away a few shirts as well.

From my perspective, chest and shoulders are lagging, but I’m interested in hearing what you think. What would you say are my weakest areas? These are my lifts for this week (3x10). If it helps, I’m 5’6":

Chest
Flat bench - 95s
Machine bench - 230
Flat DB flyes - 55s
Incline bench - 170
Machine decline bench - 450 (I think this is skewed because of the way this particular machine is built)

Back
Smith bent over row - 245
Seated cable row - 270
Machine iso-lateral high row - 280
Seated machine parallel grip row - 390
Weighted chinups - 70

Shoulders
Front DB raises: 35s
Machine lateral raises: 155 pounds
Standing machine shrugs: 340

Abs
Abs machine - 125
Dragon flags - body weight

Arms
Seated incline curls - 40s
Weighted dips - 135

Legs
Seated calf press - 280
Machine squats - 810
Leg press - 1080

This from from C_C this will hit your Chest/Shoulders 3 times each… which should help if your shoulders are lagging ?


Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
So… I’ve been thinking about new ramps/growth phases a little…

Day 1
-Chest
-Back (thickness… Some kind of row… kroc rows maybe)
-Bis (brachialis/forearms, I’d use Pinwheels)

Day 2
-Tris (Bent-over Rope extensions or PJRs go well with that rep range. If you really want a press, use In-Humans or SWRGB)
-Delts(laterals only… I’d go with skip laterals or similar rather than regular ones… Or with a lateral machine)
-Hams (I’d suggest GH raises… In the lying leg curl machine if necessary… Otherwise reverse-hypers)

Day 3
-Delts (some kind of press… Standing DB presses are nice for that, bit of a different angle from all the seated and smith stuff but not as hard on the joints as a bar… It’s not an Arnold press though, just do it like a seated DB press with elbows out)
-Back (width, like rack chins)
-Bis (regular bicep curl, alt. offset curls or so)

Day 4
-Tris (Bent-Over Rope Extensions or Dead-Extensions or PJR’s or whatever)
-Delts (laterals only… Whatever you didn’t do on day 2 or just do the same exercise or cut them out, your call)
-Quads (Front Squats or leg press, just don’t use a narrow stance or any of that… And no back squats here, you’ll see why when looking at day 5)

Day 5
-Chest
-Back (thickness, deadlifts or rack-pulls preferably.)
-Bis (brachialis again, Pinwheels or Alt. Hammers)

Day 6
-Tris (Board CGP or pin presses (CG) or regular CGP if need be…
-Delts (you guessed it, more laterals, db skip laterals or so or machine)
-Hams (again GH raises or reverse hypers… Sumo Pulls could be done but then you have to do a row variant on day 5 and I don’t like how people turn rows into arm and lat exercises when going too heavy, particularly inexperienced lifters)

Rep ranges and amount of sets:

Now things get interesting, depending on how your joints feel you may wish to use less sets for pressing than rowing and such…

On the supergrowth:
Example, shoulders don’t feel like it? Just do 1 set for chest/delts(pressing) or 2 at most
Backwidth and thickness get 3 sets each, or 2 if you’re like me and absolutely hate doing 3 or more work sets per exercise. Anyway, should be more than you’re doing for chest etc.

Now, triceps, again you decide. Elbows feeling ok? Then do 2 or 3 sets per tricep exercise. If not, just 1.

On quad day, same thing. 1-3 depending on how your knees feel (just keep the number of sets the same for the whole supergrowth phase, obviously)

Ok, you guys got the idea I’d say.

As for a ramping phase… You may really not need one, but if you want one and every joint feels ok, just use the same split as above but follow the rules for ramp 1 (i.e. sets go from 3-5… You could start at 2 and go up to 4 though instead). Also, rest decreases as in the book. Rep ranges per day are the same as in Ramp 1 and for the supergrowth the same as in supergrowth 1.

Thanks, so CC has the following:

Chest - 2 days
Back - 3 days
Bis - 3 days
Tris - 3 days
Delts - 4 days
Hams - 2 days
Quads - 1 day

It’s interesting that there’s no direct calf or ab work, and that chest gets half the workouts compared to delts. I’ve always heard you should keep chest and back matched for workouts, to avoid uneven development.

Anyway, there’s obviously no “perfect” program. It’s always good to hear what others are doing, and then adapt to your own needs.

I realized that I directed this question to CC, but I would appreciate any thoughts others may have. Based on my lifts, what would you say are my weakest areas that would benefit from additional focus in the gym? I’m 5’6" and all are 3x10 sets:

Chest
Flat bench - 95s
Machine bench - 230
Flat DB flyes - 55s
Incline bench - 170
Machine decline bench - 450 (I think this is skewed because of the way this particular machine is built)

Back
Smith bent over row - 245
Seated cable row - 270
Machine iso-lateral high row - 280
Seated machine parallel grip row - 390
Weighted chinups - 70

Shoulders
Front DB raises: 35s
Machine lateral raises: 155 pounds
Standing machine shrugs: 340

Abs
Abs machine - 125
Dragon flags - body weight

Arms
Seated incline curls - 40s
Weighted dips - 135

Legs
Seated calf press - 280
Machine squats - 810
Leg press - 1080

I don’t know if it’s because you are doing machine squats, but EIGHT HUNDRED TEN for 3x10 on such a shitty routine??? BULLSHIT dude.

Like I said, legs are my strong point. Given the other lifts, what would you say is my weakest area?

[quote]forlife wrote:
Thanks, so CC has the following:

Chest - 2 days
Back - 3 days
Bis - 3 days
Tris - 3 days
Delts - 4 days
Hams - 2 days
Quads - 1 day

It’s interesting that there’s no direct calf or ab work, and that chest gets half the workouts compared to delts. I’ve always heard you should keep chest and back matched for workouts, to avoid uneven development.

Anyway, there’s obviously no “perfect” program. It’s always good to hear what others are doing, and then adapt to your own needs.[/quote]

No he developed that to stop people frying their shoulders on a 5/6 day a week split like your doing.

No way you can keep doing Chest/Shoulders 5 days a week, on BBB (Big Beyond Belief) they have back off weeks so you don’t end up frying yourself… you don’t have any.

Maybe give that a go for a few weeks ?

Train your chest 3x/week if you insist on high frequency.

95s on flat bench is weak if you’ve been stuck on that for a long time and want to grow.

[quote]forlife wrote:
Thanks, so CC has the following:

Chest - 2 days
Back - 3 days
Bis - 3 days
Tris - 3 days
Delts - 4 days
Hams - 2 days
Quads - 1 day

It’s interesting that there’s no direct calf or ab work, and that chest gets half the workouts compared to delts. I’ve always heard you should keep chest and back matched for workouts, to avoid uneven development.[/quote]A weak chest is no big problem, health-wise (mostly). A weak back definitely is. [quote]

Anyway, there’s obviously no “perfect” program. It’s always good to hear what others are doing, and then adapt to your own needs.[/quote]

That routine quoted by STB was actually not a stand-alone routine, it was meant as a custom phase for Big Beyond Belief, a program which is very heavy on pressing and kind of neglects back work to some degree.
My custom phase was meant for a specific situation…

It’s not what I’m doing myself, just an idea I posted in the BBB thread.

As for ab and calf work, I simply forgot to add it, would be the same as on regular BBB.

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
I don’t know if it’s because you are doing machine squats, but EIGHT HUNDRED TEN for 3x10 on such a shitty routine??? BULLSHIT dude.[/quote]

There is a guy on IM using 900 pounds for reps on a squat machine, but he’s doing overhead/semi-push presses with it.

Of course he’s a lot bigger than the OP here, but just saying… 800 lbs is possible for him…

Forlife, I can’t really judge your strengths and weaknesses all that well because you don’t have much in the way of free-weight work in there… I don’t know how those machines compare.

A picture or two would probably help more if you’re looking for comments on muscle-balance.

[quote]forlife wrote:
I realized that I directed this question to CC, but I would appreciate any thoughts others may have. Based on my lifts, what would you say are my weakest areas that would benefit from additional focus in the gym? I’m 5’6" and all are 3x10 sets:

Chest
Flat bench - 95s
Machine bench - 230
Flat DB flyes - 55s
Incline bench - 170 [/quote] Hmm yeah, that’s weak. However, you don’t weigh all that much and you’re much shorter than I am… If I remember right, onemorerep (5’7, crazy muscle-shape) wasn’t very strong either but looked great :slight_smile:
Just focus on putting more weight up and you’ll do fine. [quote]

Machine decline bench - 450 (I think this is skewed because of the way this particular machine is built)

Back
Smith bent over row - 245
Seated cable row - 270
Machine iso-lateral high row - 280
Seated machine parallel grip row - 390
Weighted chinups - 70

Shoulders
Front DB raises: 35s
Machine lateral raises: 155 pounds
Standing machine shrugs: 340

Abs
Abs machine - 125
Dragon flags - body weight

Arms
Seated incline curls - 40s
Weighted dips - 135

Legs
Seated calf press - 280
Machine squats - 810
Leg press - 1080[/quote]

I’d say a more progression-friendly rep scheme + just get bigger overall, but I’m really just guessing here.

Ok, thanks again for your insights. I appreciate it!