Looking for Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

Will give some quick history I used to lift with no program and not regular, done p90x and looked like a jogger ( probably my diet not sure) . After p90x I went to the bench and noticed my strength dropped. At that point I bought starting strength and practical programming and started strength training. Had a bad knee injury when young and my squats and deadlifts suffer.

Was told by someone I knew who was getting bigger to just eat anything as he was eating a whole pizza so basically suffered from a couple years of dirty bulking. Then cutting and lifts suffered. Couple months ago I figured I would try crossfit as I have a vacation coming up and wanted to get ripped for the beach (who dont).

After a month I noticed I was barely getting any chest work beside burpee and push ups every once and awhile but not much bench work. I started doing a split making my own workouts trying to incorporate Olympic lifts and high Intensity work also. Couple weeks ago I ran into the westside template. Trying to buckle down for awhile on 1 program

Just want to run what I am doing now by more experienced and successful lifters and see if I should change it up a bit.

Diet is basically paleo started it once I started crossfit and plan on sticking to it.

Monday
Bench warm up, 5x5, then add weight and 3x1
press 5x5 2x1
pushups, dips and heavy bag in super sets 3-5 sets amrap
Not much rest between heavy sets maybe 2min

Tuesday
Front squat (better on my knee seems like) warm up, 5x5
Deadlifts 3x5 with set of shrugs at the last rep in each set
pullups, situps, upright row done as supersets 3-5 sets amrap

Thursdays
same as Monday but bench and press are done dynamic effort.

Friday
same as Tuesday but squat and deadlifts are done dynamic effort.

I work out in my basement at 5am. Have a power rack and Olympic weight set. A heavy bag and dumbbells. Treadmill, stationery bike and basment steps.

Just looking for advice on diet, program and etc…to get bigger stronger and leaner from more experienced people.

Thanks

2

What are your numbers for the major compound lifts?

What is your height, current bodyweight and overall bodycomp?

3

5’9 178lbs 24%bf

Bench 1rm around 275lbs
Switched to front squats for my knee about a month ago and have not 1rm but if I had to guess it would be close to my body weight.
Deadlift around 350lbs
Press around 160lbs
Back squat maybe 230 been awhile since performed a 1rm day only

My leg related lifts suffer from old injury will explain
when I was 14 I broke my knee cap in 3 peices and ripped a bunch of tissue playing football we had no insurance so basically got told at the hospital it would heel and left. So at a young age whenever I played a sport my knee would dislocate offten. At the age of 23 it dislocated going up my steps and since I had insurance at that point I had surgery. I am 31 now it still bothers me and my good legs seems to want to do all the work. It has always been bigger than my injured leg and is now. So my left leg was basically dead at a younger age and has taken a slow process of getting my lifts up.

4

Why?

You can’t follow programs and wondering why you are getting nowhere.

The above program… You should have copied it properly. The concept has been around a long time, but the execution and order is not optimal.

I’de say to try WS4SB, but you probably won’t follow it…

5

Well maybe I need to clear up the following of programs. I Followed p90x to a tee(didn’t like results probably diet related see op) I followed starting strength from novice to intermediate for about 2 years just had a dirty bulk and started cutting for about another 6 months not a clean cut either just calorie deficit.

I started crossfit and followed for a couple months and only switched it up because I did not like going two months and only bench pressing once.

The paleo diet I plan on sticking to it, because in two months of changing my diet I dropped 20lbs and 6% body fat(whether accurate and water weight not sure was around 30% with my caliber reading at around 200lbs)

I looked at the westside barbell template and now was questioning what I was planning doing above.

same split but on max effort days just trying to get more volume in and keeping bw exercises like push ups dips and etc… for accessory exercises.

Not sure what program you are talking about.

6

Do this for at least 3 months. Or forever if you want to keep making gains.
Rotate these sessions through in the order listed and pay attention to rep changes from session to session.

Monday
Bench Press ramp up to 7 perfect reps. Next session ramp to 5. Next session ramp to 3. Next session back to 7 but add weight.
Low Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 3 x 8 -10
Bent Over DB Lateral Raises 3 x 10-12
Wide Grip Upright Rows 4 sets 8-10
Rope Extensions 3 x 12-15

Tuesday
BB Bent Over Row. Start with bar and ramp up to fairly heavy 5. Do 3 sets at this weight. ( Add a rep each session till you hit 3 x7 then add weight)
Pullups. Do a set and stop when last rep isn’t perfect. Then do 4 more sets of same reps. Do 5 sets altogether. Switch grip each session between wide, neutral and supinated.
Bent Over Low Single Cable Row. 4 x 10-12.
Facepulls 3 x 12-15
Barbell Curls 4 x 8.

Thursday
Trap Bar Deadlift. (Great for lifters with bad knees). Ramp up to perfect 5. Start with 1 plate and squat weight up with perfect form . Keep trying to stay upright and squat it up for as long as you can. Eventually you’ll start leaning forward and pulling with your back but when you lock out go down upright and get the eccentric work into your legs. Keep going heavier with deadlift form once legs are gone. In the first session make sure reps are perfect so you can make further progressions in coming sessions.
Leg Press 3-5 x 10 -20 Ramp up to heavy 10s some sessions. Rep out for a pump on others.
Leg Curls 4 x 8.
Calf Raises 4 x 10 for standing. 4 x 15 for seated. Can alternate sessions on these.

Friday
Bench Press Ramp to 5. ( Next session ramp to 3 and so on.)
Low Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 3 x 8
Parallel Bar Dips 4-5 x 12
DB Lateral Raises 4 x10 -15
Overhead Machine Press 4 x 8. (Do the laterals first to pre exhaust middle deltoids).

Monday
BB Bent Over Row. Ramp up to 6 . Do 3 sets at last sessions weight for 5.
Pullups same as before but use different grip.
Bent Over Low Single Cable Rows. 4 x 10-12.
Facepulls 3 x 12-15
Incline DB curls 4 x 8.

Tuesday
Trap Bar Deadlift. Ramp up to perfect 3. Do same as before. Next session do 5 and add small weight to previous 5. Next session 3 and add small weight to previous 3 and so on. Don’t go too heavy too soon or you will stall. The idea is to do the early sets like squats so you can work your legs without hurting your knees. The later sets are too heavy to squat up but you can still work legs by control the eccentric. This works quads, glutes and hamstrings.
Leg Press as before.
Leg Curls 4 x 8
Calf raises as before. Can alternate standing or seated if you like. As a rule do more reps for seated then standing.

7

You are certainly not weak for your bodyweight and injury history. It seems the only problem is your bodyfat level. At the moment, you should start losing bodyfat until you are at a sufficient level of leaness.

Why don’t you consider alternatives to squatting since your knee is holding back progress?

8

That’s not really Westside. First, there should be a main lift for each workout that changes each week. Louie Simmons has written about this extensively but according to him, you shouldn’t go more than 90% of your 1rm on any given lift for more than 3 weeks in a row and they change the main lift each session. Second, you shouldn’t really squat and DL in the same session on heavy day. Do either a squat OR deadlift variation.

9

Thanks. Never looked into alternates for squatting, just figured I would take the slow long easy road to strengthen that leg. I have to really focus on activating that leg when working or my right leg will try to do all the work. I basically walked with a limp most of my life. After surgery my knee does not dislocate anymore, and only sometimes feel like limping but try not to. But still suffer from a lot of cartilage and scar tissue issues.

Front squats seems to not bother my knee as much so I setting goals to slowly work at getting 5x5 of my body weight on front squat.

What alternatives would you suggest.

10

Yes I know it’s not the correct copy of it. I plan on changing for repetition on the 4th week as he says, and variations every once in awhile.
My question was basically changing the rep range for more volume and accessory exercises to just compound bw exercises be more beneficial for trying to get bigger stronger and leaner. My body fat is what I am working on at this point. Never really worked out for looks but would not mind having a good lean bf%. I am just trying to continue working on strength and power and like the close to max effort and dynamic effort split.

11

[quote]spartakis wrote:
Yes I know it’s not the correct copy of it. I plan on changing for repetition on the 4th week as he says, and variations every once in awhile.
My question was basically changing the rep range for more volume and accessory exercises to just compound bw exercises be more beneficial for trying to get bigger stronger and leaner. My body fat is what I am working on at this point. Never really worked out for looks but would not mind having a good lean bf%. I am just trying to continue working on strength and power and like the close to max effort and dynamic effort split.[/quote]

Follow the program. Period. You do not have enough experience to change things. Westside is a strength program. Get on it. Eat to do the max in the gym, the rest will follow. If you gain fat, eat less. If you are not progressing, eat more, etc, etc, etc.

Type “WS4SB” in a search engine if you want to know what it is.

Your knee is an issue. Do what doesn’t hurt. Changing from back squat to front squat is not changing the program. Changing the rep range is.

Doing two legs in a day is not good. I did tell you to copy the program properly. Just do squat/bench and dead/OP if you are stuck on that. But really, follow the program. Learn the difference between max effort and dynamic effort. He also has a long list of variation lifts.

Follow the program.

12

[quote]spartakis wrote:
Diet is basically paleo started it once I started crossfit and plan on sticking to it.[/quote]
“Paleo” has about a half-dozen different meanings to different people, so I have no idea what this means. What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

[quote]Couple months ago I figured I would try crossfit as I have a vacation coming up and wanted to get ripped for the beach
…
5’9 178lbs 24%bf
[/quote]
Saywhatnow? Dude, if you’re anywhere remotely-close to 24% right now, I have no clue how you were trying to get ripped for the beach when, to be honest, you’re still way fat. Am I missing something here?

Ben Bruno had knee surgery himself, and he’s put out some great info about training with it. This is one of a handful of articles he’s written on the topic:

This could be too much to ask, but is there any wiggle room in when you can lift? Some guys have issues going all-out 100% heavy first thing in the morning. If that’s your schedule, then that’s your schedule. But you might find it useful trying to find an hour or so at another time of the day. (If you’re pushing your pace like you should be, about an hour should be plenty of time to get good work done.)

Regarding programs, Westside for Fat Bastards would seem to be pretty much what you’re looking for. Morning cardio, evening lifting:

13

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]spartakis wrote:
Diet is basically paleo started it once I started crossfit and plan on sticking to it.[/quote]
“Paleo” has about a half-dozen different meanings to different people, so I have no idea what this means. What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

[quote]Couple months ago I figured I would try crossfit as I have a vacation coming up and wanted to get ripped for the beach
…
5’9 178lbs 24%bf
[/quote]
Saywhatnow? Dude, if you’re anywhere remotely-close to 24% right now, I have no clue how you were trying to get ripped for the beach when, to be honest, you’re still way fat. Am I missing something here?

Ben Bruno had knee surgery himself, and he’s put out some great info about training with it. This is one of a handful of articles he’s written on the topic:

This could be too much to ask, but is there any wiggle room in when you can lift? Some guys have issues going all-out 100% heavy first thing in the morning. If that’s your schedule, then that’s your schedule. But you might find it useful trying to find an hour or so at another time of the day. (If you’re pushing your pace like you should be, about an hour should be plenty of time to get good work done.)

Regarding programs, Westside for Fat Bastards would seem to be pretty much what you’re looking for. Morning cardio, evening lifting:

[/quote]
Basically eat meat, vegetables, fruits, eggs and nuts

Ya ripped may have been a bad term, knew that was not going to happen. Fat yes, way fat I don’t look that bad and I ve seen a lot worse.

Thanks will check out the article.

No before work is the only way I can get it in and stay consistent. Not only that but after work I don’t feel like doing crap, I wake up at 5 drink a preworkout drink and go at it.

Thanks for the article, and as reading it that’s what I was asking about was changing reps to a little higher on max effort day. Not sure if you seen the schedule I posted in original post. Which is also why I had more compound accessory exercises to save time and more muscles worked.

14

[quote]spartakis wrote:
Basically eat meat, vegetables, fruits, eggs and nuts[/quote]
Ok. Still pretty vague. Just remember that nuts are calorie-dense, so it’s easy to inadvertently go overboard with them.

Fair enough. This is one reason why bodyfat percentages are crap estimates. In general, 24% BF would be love handles and some man boob with zero muscle shape. I prefer to track progress with measurements (scale and tracking inches) along with pictures and in-gym performance.

Gotcha. Do what you can then.

I think running the accessory stuff as supersets/giant sets is definitely a good idea to sneak some extra conditioning in. I’d just tweak the plan in your original post, so as to not have two heavy lifts on the ME days.