Welcome back man
dagill: thanks. Iām still only halfway here, but Iām kinda back.
ā
I accidentally misloaded the neutral grip press this week, and went from 65 to 80, instead of 65 to 70. I think Iāll just progress from there, because 80 was fine.
Otherwise just plugging along with the upper-body stuff and still working on my left hip/knee/ankle. That seems to be getting better. Still getting the kneecap-sliding feeling when I stand up about half the time, but itās getting better. Single leg glute bridges, and just straight up tensing my left glute until everything is shaking and then failure ā quite literally just forcing everything to figure things out ā seems to be helping things too.
Started doing some of the frequency pullup stuff daily (multiple really submaximal sets spread throughout the day). Between those and some form changes, and my shoulders seem to be getting less irritated when I lift.
ā
Also started on a new supplement regimen, to see if I can make a dent on some mental health symptoms. Namely just years of everything feeling like a dream, and not feeling ārealā, except for very sporadic moments. Time can pass really quickly, like a dayās over before I realize it. Sometimes memories get muddled; I can remember the āwhatā, but canāt remember the āwhenā. Sometimes I even get the āwhatā confused, because I genuinely thought something happened, but it didnāt. It can get confusing at times.
That said, Iām still perfectly functional. Itās annoying, but not debilitating.
Most of this is stuff Iāve played with before, but not all put together like this. Found it on some other forum.
- Fish Oil (using Flameout)
- Phosphatidlserine with DHA
- Coenzymated B Vitamins, sublingual tablets
- Rhodiola Rosea
- DMAE
He went back and forth on the formula over time, and sometimes it had Alpha-GPC, and sometimes it didnāt. So I may or may not use it. But thatās the core formula.
After a couple days, I feelā¦ different. Not that my symptoms have gone away or anything, but the other day I noticed this kind of warmth at the periphery, and yesterday I had a moment where parts of my face felt a bit more real.
The goal is to get the brain working properly, rather than masking symptoms. From the forum posts (and we all know how that can be), it seems most people had significant improvements, if not complete recovery within a few weeks to a few months.
Iām certainly skeptical, but itās basically the same cost as a therapy appointment, and those went nowhere.
Frequency chins are amazing. I installed a bar in my office and was knocking out a bunch a day. Excellent way to get some blood flowing.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Frequency chins are amazing. I installed a bar in my office and was knocking out a bunch a day. Excellent way to get some blood flowing.[/quote]
Iām liking it so far. I work from home, and I have rings on the back patio, so it works out pretty well.
Also finally finished the last couple bits to my farmerās handles. Any suggestions where to start with these?
Tonight I just threw a 45 onto each side and did two 80ā-ish walks. (40ā, drop, turn around, 40ā back)ĆĀ„
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Long-ish Term Goals
Axle Clean and Press 230 x 8 (clean each rep)
18" Axle Deadlift w/Straps 540 x 10
I pulled these numbers off a strongman competition Rob Orlando won.
I have some nagging shoulder and elbow injuries, so Iām also working to get those back to 100%.
Current Maxes
Olympic-Style Press: 140 x 1 (fairly old)
Barbell Z Press: 120 x 5
13" Barbell Deadlifts w/35lb Chains: 395 x 5
[/quote]
Switch the long-ish term to long term. 230x8 shoulder isnāt a joke.
I havenāt lifted for a few weeks. Weāre trying to design/have a house built (when iām not working), and plenty of work when I am working. A business trip, then a visit from my parents threw me off. My gym isnāt very usable right now, since a lot of the cleaning from the house went into the gym space.
Cleared out just enough to do something today.
Started with some decline bench, but my shoulders werenāt liking them, even at 95.
Instead, farmers walks. Iām not sure of the bar weight, so weights are without.
30 feet with 110lbs per hand
30 feet with 110
60 feet with 110
60 feet with 130
60 feet with 130
Ended up using straps and gloves. Straps alone were pinching my palms.
Mentally, itās pretty much ākeep the upper body stable, put one foot in front of another until the endā.
Really, these werenāt too hard. Left me invigorated, if anything.
First ārealā farmers walk workout. I donāt really know good distances or routines, so Iām just doing something and progressing it.
Oh man, sorry I missed your farmerās reveal. Life has been a little crazy here, but those look incredibly slick.
As for workouts, I like 50ā as a distance. Unless you ever want to train for a show with a turn, I wouldnāt ever willingly train turning with the farmers. Just put them down, turn around and pick them up again if you need more distance.
Iāll do 4 sets of runs, either 50 or 100ā depending on the weight, and then wave the weight over a span of 3 weeks, starting light focusing on speed and working up to a heavish weight on the third week before starting over again.
Good approach is
Light week
4x100ā (50ā, put down, turn around 50ā)
Medium week
2x100ā as above
2x50ā
Heavy week
4x50ā
Other things you can do is work them into a medley. Carry the farmerās 50ā, then grab a keg or a sandbag and run it back.
T3hPwnisher: Thanks for that. Just a couple questions. Is there any reason to go 50 and turn, vs 100ā straight? I actually have a clear 100ā area, if I wanted to go that far.
Also, what does light, medium, heavy look like to you. Just roughly how much of a difference in weights?
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I was looking over some old stuff I did in the past and just thinking about how this past year has gone training wise. Chronic pain has probably been the single thing that killed my overall motivation and progress. Mat pulls died off mainly due to that SI pain that crept up on me, and my shoulder and elbow pain are persistent, though the intensity waves in and out, and then left knee pain keeping me from actually squatting. Pretty annoying honestly.
The Hepburn stuff seemed promising but it just kind of beat me down. CTs stuff never really seemed to āworkā for me. Not entirely sure why. Immaturity when it comes to lifting I guess? I got technically proficient but strength/size just never came.
However both Greyskull and Power to the People worked well for me. I should probably keep my training along either of those lines. I think I got a lot of the experimentation out of me this year.
Hiking on uneven terrain has been a good mental break, and good for joints. The way Iāve felt after doing those farmers walks makes me think itās probably a good addition from a ākeep everything working the way it shouldā standpoint when it comes to hips ankles and knees. Maybe not though. But right now I feel like maybe itāll ācorrectā things enough so I can squat without knee pain. I hope it does.
Other than wanting to really build that up, I think Iāll either stick with my stripped down Greyskull routine, or switch to a PttP routine for some press variant. Maybe rotate between the presses. A cycle of decline, then incline, then NG overhead, repeat. I donāt think I can go wrong with any of those options.
I just got burnt out of lifting, and overthinking this stuff was taking me away from other things in my life that are actually more important. I need something pretty foolproof that leaves me feeling better over time than worse.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
T3hPwnisher: Thanks for that. Just a couple questions. Is there any reason to go 50 and turn, vs 100ā straight? I actually have a clear 100ā area, if I wanted to go that far.
Also, what does light, medium, heavy look like to you. Just roughly how much of a difference in weights?
[/quote]
The distance question is an interesting one, as itās one Iāve never really thought to consider. You donāt tend to see 100ā straight shots in contests, and instead youāll tend to have a set distance with either turns or drop/picks.
I would say the value in dropping, turning around and picking up is more opportunities to practice an explosive start and that you can get away with using a heavier weight (unless youāre using straps, in which case itās pretty equal). Iāve not personally performed long runs, but Alpha has spoken highly in their regard, so I am sure there is something to it.
As for weights, in all honesty Iām just lazy and go by plate configurations. Plate and a quarter per side is light, 2 plates is medium, 2 plates and a quarter is heavy. I use handles that are 25lbs a piece, so that breaks down to about 165, 205 and 255. Sometimes Iāll go 2 plates is light, 2 plates and a quarter is medium and 3 plates is heavy. For the 200lb weight class, thatās about accurate for light vs heavy shows, with nationals getting even more stupid (granted, there IS no 200lb class there, but you get my point).
The other factor to keep in mind with my background is that, with strongman training, moving events tend to be trained light with a focus on speed, with the time in the weight room being about getting strong. Itās one of those things where, if you always go heavy in training, you never learn how to move your feet quick, whereas, if you always go lighter and quick, when you pick up a heavy weight, the instincts are still there. That took me a while to learn.
All THAT said, I still like super heavy moving events, as theyāre an awesome test of how everything comes together, and walking with a super heavy weight that makes your eyeballs pop out of your skull is just a different kind of awesome. THAT having been said, I tore my ACL and meniscus ON a heavy yoke (granted, it was on the pick up, not the walk), so itās a risk/reward sortāve thing.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I would say the value in dropping, turning around and picking up is more opportunities to practice an explosive start and that you can get away with using a heavier weight (unless youāre using straps, in which case itās pretty equal). Iāve not personally performed long runs, but Alpha has spoken highly in their regard, so I am sure there is something to it.[/quote]
That makes sense. I may just mix them up; maybe 100ā straight on the light days or something.
So Iām going to guess our handles weigh about the same. I gave 2 plates a shot today, and they didnāt move. Dropped a 10 off every side, still nothing. Did it again and nope. Had to get down to 1 and a quarter to get it off the ground.
Alphaās bodyweight per side for a mile is just incredible.
Scaling, with 165 as my āheavyā.
Light:Ć?Ć 105-110 (25, 10, 5)
Medium: 135 (45, 10, 5)
Heavy: 165 (45, 25)
I think Iāll start with that, and the waves you suggested, then add a pair of 5s or 10s every 3 weeks.
Cool. Thanks.
ā
Friday:
Decline Bench - 135 x 5, 5, 5
Today:
Low Incline Bench - 120 x 5, 5, 10
Farmers Walks - 165/side x 4 x 50ā (gloves + straps)
Elbows are fine. Shoulders donāt hurt per se, but I still feel like I need to be careful with them. As in they could easily hurt if I got too far off. I could have done more than 10, but I like capping it there.
Frequency chins are at sets of 4 now. Not sure yet whether theyāre helping or hurting when it comes to my shoulders.
It was 37 degrees. Lifted with mechanix gloves because of the cold.
43 degrees, light rain.
Neutral Grip Presses: 85 x 3 x 5
Neutral Grip Curls: 65 x 2 x 10
I just felt like I ran out of gas on the presses. Been a long time since I lifted first thing in the morning.
Thought about setting things up for mat pulls and/or just doing farmers handle deadlifts, but between the rain, lack of space, and lack of time, it didnāt happen.
Yesterday. 47 degrees.
Slight decline axle bench presses. 45 a side x 5, 5, 10
I want to be pretty faithful to greyskull programming, where pressing increases 2.5 pounds a session. At least once youāre at the point where reps on the final set are under 10.
I dug out my micro platesā¦ and they donāt fit on my barbell. I tried a couple times, but they just donāt fit.
So I switched out to my axle, where those plates actually fit, but since itās a different movement, I now have to find a good starting point again. I think the axle is around 20 pounds, but I just threw on some 45s and went with that. The first set felt off, the second set felt better, and the third set it was obvious the weight was still too light.
The weight feels so much more solid with the axle, it fits in my hand much better, and I actually feel like I can squeeze the bar (unlike a barbell).
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For the most part, Iām keeping the pain at bay, which is my main goal right now. Iād rather go through my day without elbow or shoulder or low-back or knee pain, than lift more.
Thatās the main goal, but I still want to get bigger and stronger and just generally better. I donāt want to compete in powerlifting; I donāt want to be a bodybuilder, and I donāt need to lift to impress women (or anyone else).
For whatever reason, since I came to this site, I frequently bordered on an obsessive focus on āliftingā and ālearning about liftingā and ātalking about liftingā, without being particularly successful at actually lifting. I donāt know, maybe it was my outlet to compensate for other stuff in my life.
I went from thinking that training like they did in the 50s and 60s was somehow superior because I prefer the look of the bodybuilders from that time. I then did a ton of crazy reading, trying to break down and find the āmost effectiveā lifts and stuff, as far as achieving different goals, and training using that knowledge. I then went a different direction, learning a ton from CT, but not necessarily what I needed to learn; a lot of his stuff around that time was about peaking in a 6-8 week period, then changing things up and peaking in something else. Between all of that, I ended up injuring my shoulders and one of my knees.
So the injuries started dictating what I could and couldnāt do, and I just started experimenting with a bunch of rehab-by stuff that only kind of helped. Eventually the whole 2 lift, power-to-the-people stuff was a good fit because it was simple, I could do it every day (feeding into the obsessive part), and I was actually getting results. Until I started having yet another set of injuries and pain.
Those goals at the beginning of this log, the axle clean and press and the 18" deadlift, I still have those, but Iām not going to pursue them in such an obsessive single-minded fashion as I was before.
Iāve realized that both of those require being awesome everywhere in your body. Everything has to work pretty well, and everything has to be pretty strong. My earlier approach wasnāt covering enough territory.
And so Iāve kind of come full circle, going back to a ābeginnerā program because it does a lot of stuff well, and does things that none of my prior training has. Like pressing in multiple planes. Like lower frequency. Like lighter relative weights. (No more of this 1-3RM stuff). Like hitting joints from multiple angles. Like achieving mechanical fatigue by using the AMRAP sets.
I could be overstating their benefit, but I have a few goals with the farmers walks. 1) get a lot of my joints working better, by forcing them to āfigure things outā. Especially with my hips and knees, by shifting side by side, and learning to stabilize and work well through all that. 2) have some actually heavy movement for my body, since squats hurt my knee right now, and heavier mat pulls mess with my SI joint; 3) get used to moving with a heavy weight. If (when) I actually pursue mountain climbing, and doing stuff like literally dragging a sled of gear and a bunch of stuff on my back, I see this being helpful.
I may start doing bottom-up pin squats or something. Or with that setup from the previous page; basically, squatting with a chain yoke so I donāt end up jarring myself at the bottom. I should probably find a range where I can squat without my knee being stupid, at least until it starts working correctly again.
Logistics, I just donāt have enough space to set things up how I want. I want to be able to keep a bar set up permanently for mat pulls. I want to keep the farmers handles loaded. And I want to be able to easily move my bench in and out of the rack, without having to put it outside in the cold rain, and move it over/around the farmers or mat pull setup. Eventually Iāll have that.
ā
Current plan.
M: incline bench (now, with axle) - 5,5,5+
W: neutral grip overhead press - 5,5,5+
F: decline axle bench - 5,5,5+
M: farmers walks (L,M,H, alternating weekly)
W: ?
F: ?
I think I can probably do some squats of some sort one of those days. Like that Friday day.
I donāt think Iām ready to work in mat pulls until I have an idea of how I react to the farmers walks. Itās that left SI joint, left knee, left shoulder thing that Iām worried about. So far it feels like the farmers will even that out, so I want to wait to see if thatās actually the case.
Frequency chins I did for a few days straight, and a few days off. It felt like I was pushing it too hard and needed a break ā felt weird in my shoulders and elbows. I may just cycle it like that and do a few days on, a few days off, than actual.y doing them ādailyā.
First up, I read every word you wrote. I know how frustrating it can be to type up a manifesto and receive zero feedback or acknowledgment of it, haha. Itās good that you did some of that soul searching and had some honesty with yourself.
I think your decision to pick something basic and stick with it is a great one. Another thing to keep in mind is that itās INCREDIBLY hard to have āworthless trainingā. Itās easy to think youāre in a rut and āwastedā a year bouncing around and spinning your wheels, but a lot of times itās THESE periods that are necessary in order to build up to something great. The best lifters arenāt the ones that have the best years stacked up in a row over and over again, but in fact the opposite; the ones that can hit the inevitable slumps and blast on through while others just give up. Meanwhile, during that time spent training, work capacity gets developed, volume is accumulated and (as youāve noted) what DOESNāT work gets realized, which is in many cases more valuable than learning what DOES work.
Iām joining you on the axle crew, so youāve got some support there. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
As above, I read it too! Lol. Iām in the exact same boat regarding hamstringing myself with overanalysis, and then just having to work around niggling injuries. My one and only piece of advice is that Iāve found itās much better to find a way to continue to train body parts rather than ditch them completely when youāre injured. Iāve spent a so much time catching up on gains Iāve lost by going too minimalist in the past. Just something like low rep pull-ups between press sets (literally just singles are far better than nothing) and bodyweight squats in your warm-up (back to a box if they still bother your knee). Feel free to ignore lol, itās just what Iāve found.
Iāll chime in as well, sir. The thing youāre learning now, and that I wish Iād learned 8 years ago when I started doing Crossfit, which is what lead me into barbells, is patience. Not the ādelayed gratification for a day, or a weekā sort of patience, but the āit can take years to get where Iām going, and there will be weeks, or even months, where I donāt see the progress but still have to persevereā sort of patience.
Thatās what leads you to guard your joints because youāll need them later, to leave one in the tank on AMRAP sets, to learn to judge when to push the limit, and when to do the minimum and come back stronger next time. It took me 5 years of repeatedly straining my back and other joints doing sloppy crossfit workouts with poor form or deadlifting too heavy too fast, a dislocated elbow, a broken wrist and a detached pectoral muscle to get me to where I am now, but now 2 years of consistent, patient training has me stronger than Iāve ever been in my life, at 50.
Youāre learning it a lot sooner than I did (I can be a bit dense and overly competitive with myself), and you have your whole life ahead of you to be awesome!
T3hPwnisher: That was some pretty good inspirational writing (besides actually being inspiring). Thanks for all the help youāve provided so far.
furo: Thanks for the advice. Sounds kind of in line with what Iād been thinking. Bodyweight squats still mess with my knees; I get some sliding of the patella or tendons or ligaments or something. It doesnāt hurt unless Iām applying a higher load, but theyāre still not really working right. I should probably stop being scared of hurting things more and just find something I can do (like, to a box, or from pins.)
OTHSteve: That sounds like it was a pretty rough several years. Thatās a lot of really painful sounding injuries. My view toward āprotecting the jointsā has changed a lot from when I started. Itās good to know Iām at least kind of on the right path now. Glad that your last two years have gone a lot better. What were the main things that changed?
All of you: Thanks for reading and writing. Iām kind of at a loss for words. I didnāt really expect a response like that.
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Todayās training.
55ish or so. Wet with puddles. Not raining.
Slight Incline Axle Bench Press: 130 x 3; 110 x 5, 5, 7
Farmers Walks: 100 lbs x 4 x 100ā (first and last sets were 50ā with a turnaround; middle sets were 100ā)
The axle presses I thought I could start around where I was with the barbell, but it seems theyāre just enough different. Not sure why the axle is that much harder. It makes some sense with overhead pressing, but not so much with bench variations.
The farmers just felt really light. No straps; no need. There were some puddles. There was a downpour earlier, but it fortunately stopped before I lifted. Iād have done it anyway, but it would have sucked. Did this in the dark, with my car parked and headlights onā¦ more to notify other people that I was there than because I needed to see.
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I actually brought my scale out and weighed my bars.
Axle is 20 pounds
Each farmers handle is 20 pounds
Neutral Grip bar is 55 lbs
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I found and read some book on shoulder rehab. Quick read, with simple routines. 4 stretches 5 days a week, and then high-rep strengthening exercises 3 days a week. After two days of doing the stretches, my shoulders already feel much better. Seems like that was one of the missing links from what Iād done before.
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Also, Christmas came early. My girlfriend bought me an Aeron chair, which was a great gift. Given that I work from home now, and Iām sitting much of the day, itās a much much nicer chair than anything else Iāve had. After fiddling with it for a couple days, and actually using it for a day, it seems to actually fit my body really well. This is going to help make a lot of things better posture wise too.
For the axleās difficulty on the incline press, the big thing youāre most likely encountering is the fact that the plates arenāt spinning because the sleeves donāt rotate. It doesnāt seem like a big deal, but itās forcing your supporting musculature to do more work because the axle is trying itās very hardest to rip itself out of your hands the entire time youāre holding onto it, whereas, with a barbell, the collars keep it from doing that. This is why unracking an axle really sucks too.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For the axleās difficulty on the incline press, the big thing youāre most likely encountering is the fact that the plates arenāt spinning because the sleeves donāt rotate. It doesnāt seem like a big deal, but itās forcing your supporting musculature to do more work because the axle is trying itās very hardest to rip itself out of your hands the entire time youāre holding onto it, whereas, with a barbell, the collars keep it from doing that. This is why unracking an axle really sucks too.[/quote]
I guess I never really thought about rotation having much play in benching, but I can see how the thicker grip engages a lot more forearm involvement, at the very least.
43 degrees, light rain
Slight Decline Axle Bench: 120 x 5, 5, 10
My shoulders are feeling a lot more stable, so I felt a lot safer pushing this. The last 4 reps of that set were quite a struggle, but they went up.
Of all the stretches, itās this doorway leaning-away stretch thatās doing the most good. I instantly feel better every time I do that one.
On the other hand, I did some light (2.5lb) sidelying internal rotations, sidelying external rotations, and sidelying abductions, and managed to hurt both shoulders with the abductions. Thatās still not completely healed up from Tuesday. Itās ridiculous how sensitive they are.
Butā¦ since I seem to be able to press right now without that irritating my shoulders, with them feeling more stable, and without elbow pain, things are looking up.
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Didnāt touch any squats this week. Didnāt do any vertical pressing.
May approach the squats sometime this weekend.
I read a recent AMA with Johnny Pain (Greyskull), and his squat cues seemed to work for me without pain, with just a bodyweight squat. Cues are just: chest forward as far as possible, butt back as far as possible, knees out as far as possible. His view is you get those three in place, and thatās all you really need. Want to try it with some weight, soon.
Yesterday. Shoulder stretches and light rehab exercises. Left things still a bit irritated. Used 1 pound for abductions and external rotations. I think 1 pound is still too heavy for the abductions or something. I can increment by .25 pound increments at least.
Today. 41, light rain. Itās rained every single day since Nov 29th, so 17 days straight now.
Slight Incline Axle Bench: 122.5 x 5,5,6
Medium-weight Farmerās Walks: 130 per hand x 100ā (with turn), 50ā, 50ā
Cut the axle bench set when my left shoulder was starting to become unstable, and my arm was compensating weirdly for it.
Farmerās walks felt relatively heavy. Left ankle (front, top, outside) felt weird, like I might have injured something. Felt ok at the beginning of each run, but got worse at the end. Feels ok now, but might end up a problem; will monitor.
Overall still happy with how things are going. I feel like the shoulder stuff is going the right direction. Next time Iāll time the rehab exercises for after the main lifts instead of the day before.