Lo/Rez: From CGA to EGA

Training Training Logs
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Today.

Half-Kneeling Presses (one knee down, one up)
95 x 5 Left
95 x 5 Right

Overhead Walks
95 lbs, 2/3rds of the way down the storage unit building, and back

I think these will be a useful tool for learning how to maintain stability, under load, while moving. Think I’ll keep them in for a bit at least.

Controlled Lowering
135 x 2

Since my core position is okay at the top of the rep, but bad everywhere else, these might be a useful addition. Basically push-press/jerk the weight overhead, then slowly lower it. I noticed where my elbow gives out, and a few other things. Maybe not the best tool to actually fix any problems, but it’s definitely good for showing where things break down.

I used the “Basic Power Bar” for this, which is just weights dangling from a chain on each side of the regular bar.

[quote]EXERCISE 3. CONTROLLED LOWERING OF A HEAVY BARBELL FROM OVERHEAD

If you haven?t made that Basic Power Bar yet, you?d better get on the job because the next two movements are performed with that piece of apparatus. The Basic Power Bar is made up of two lengths of stout chain, hung from your exercising bar by means of shackles and kept in place on the bar by collars. Two shackles on the ends of the chain keep the plates in position. Load up the chains of your Power Bar with a poundage equal to your LIMIT press. Shorten the chains so that the bar lies across the collar bones in the pre-press position . . . squat under the bar, or jerk it to arms? length and take a firm stance . . . contraction of the buttocks and thighs will help . . . from this position SLOWLY lower the bar, fighting it every inch of the way, until it is back across the shoulders. Jerk it overhead again, or else squat beneath it and once at arms? length, repeat the controlled lowering. 3 sets of 3 reps, working up steadily to 3 sets of 4 reps before adding weight.[/quote]

Today was mostly a day of experimentation with weights light enough to just try some things out.

122

This went up easy. Very different technique than the later lifters.

123

So, did a million different reps, working on a few different things.

  1. Breathing patterns

a. Learned about the “HOOK” maneuver, and that seems to stave off the lightheadedness a bit. Basically instead of stopping the breath deep down in my throat like I was, say the word “HOOK”, and hold the K.
b. Read some stuff from the 50s and 60s, and the recommended technique seemed to be “take a breath after you’ve cleaned the bar, then start exhaling when the bar is around eye/forehead level”. Tried this a few times.

  1. Hip/Core positioning

a. Tried to work with the belt a bit, but it seems that’s just too much to learn all at once right now. I can’t focus on belt + tightness + breathing patterns + pressing the bar differently.
b. Worked on just unracking and maintaining that position throughout the whole rep. Got better at it on some reps. Seems to be going kinda in the right direction.
c. Worked on maintaining an upright torso without any layback.

  1. Pressing in the “groove”. I haven’t really figured this out, but some work just trying to keep from pressing the bar forward. Played with grip wider, grip narrower, elbows down, elbows in, tightening my lats, getting the elbows in front of the bar, tilting my head back, pulling my head back.

Basically my head’s just in the way.

So… also worked on stretching out my upper back when I got back over a foam roller. Goal is better thoracic mobility. If I can arch my upper back (or just straighten it), I might be able to get my head out of the way enough that I can press straight up.

Other than this…

Got a new bar. When I was belt shopping, saw this at a Play-It-Again-Sports. They didn’t know what it was. Labeled it as a “7-foot Olympic Tricep Bar”. The girl there said she’d been there since '97 and had never seen one before. At $60 it was a steal.

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Did some rows with it with a pair of 45s. Not sure how heavy it is, but it’s definitely heavier than 45.

I’ll probably start using it to bench, rather than a straight bar.

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Fantastic deal on the bar. I believe that’s a TDS/New York Barbell 86" Mega Tricep Bar based on the photo.

I never liked benching with the swiss bar personally. Due to the lack of rotating collars, unracking the bar really sucks, because it tries to take you for a ride the whole time. Having a training partner would help in that regard. HOWEVER, the swiss bar feels amazing for floor pressing, and not bad for incline. It’s a great little tool for variety for sure.

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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Fantastic deal on the bar. I believe that’s a TDS/New York Barbell 86" Mega Tricep Bar based on the photo.

I never liked benching with the swiss bar personally. Due to the lack of rotating collars, unracking the bar really sucks, because it tries to take you for a ride the whole time. Having a training partner would help in that regard. HOWEVER, the swiss bar feels amazing for floor pressing, and not bad for incline. It’s a great little tool for variety for sure.[/quote]
Thanks for identifying it. Apparently I got an even better deal than I thought.

I’ve pretty much stuck with pin presses for the longest while, so I think it’s probably workable from pins.

I do like the way it feels for rows and curls so far.

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First attempt going to the gym today was blocked by moving trucks. One of the downfalls of working out of a storage unit.

Did some rows and curls with the new bar. My shoulders are acting up a bit, gravitating forward in the socket, so I’m doing some stuff to balance that out. I’ll probably be doing rows in some way shape or form every session for the next long while.

The rest of the time I did various lockout presses with the “Charles A Smith ‘Basic Power Bar’”, which was his variant of the “Harvey-Maxime Bar”. Should I call it the “Smith Bar”?

Basically the weights are hanging off of chains on each side of the bar, so the range of motion is limited by the length of the chains. It’s kind of like a pin press, but there’s a bit more instability due to the fact that the weight is hanging from a pendulum.

Couple reasons for doing these… 1) my rack isn’t designed for me to do pin presses except for bench, 2) the instability plus the dead start forces me to figure out proper core/elbow/shoulder positioning, 3) they lend themselves well to ROM progression with 1" increments.

I think these will do a great job to assist the normal barbell press work.

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Standing Overhead Press
45 x 10
95 x 6
120 x 5
130 x 1
135 x 3 x 1
95 x 12

These went much better. 135 is just a bit much for me to maintain great form, but they locked out fine. 130 was a pretty good rep as far as hip/core stability.

Also did a couple “press starts” with the 135. Interesting lift variant.

Smith Bar/Chain Bar (??) Overhead Squat Lockouts
135 x 2
135 x 10

These are basically the opposite of the Press lockouts. For the Press Lockouts, my legs are straight and my arms lock it out. For these, my arms are straight and my legs lock it out.

These are actually really tough on my core and wore me down. Great exercise.

–

Finally figured out the last bits of two projects.

  1. Handle assembly for the Farmers Walk Handles. Found some clamps that are designed in a way that they take a bolt too. Ran that up through the handles. I need a couple more washers and nuts, but it’s workable in its current state.

  2. Bar attachment for the Smith Bar/Chain Bar setup. Instead of just running a loop of chain over the bar, I now have a part I can slide on kind of like a collar. This will make setup/teardown a lot easier.

Photos of both will be forthcoming in a day or three.

EDIT:
Totally forgot, but I did 10 rep sets of rows between every set. Started with just the bar, then threw on a pair of 10s and used that for the rest. This seems to help with the shoulder pain and stuff.

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3 Mat Decline Bench Press from Pin 2
45 x 10
95 x 5
135 x 3
155 x 5
175 x 1
180 x 1
135 x 16, 2 (racked on pins, then resumed)

Every set interspersed with 10-15 narrow neutral grip rows, using bar + 20, then bar + 30. May weigh the bar one of these days.

Left shoulder feeling a little tweaked. Overall I really just don’t like the way bench pressing makes me feel. Right elbow still a problem.

I finished my chain bar assembly though, so that’s nice to use. The farmers walk design also worked, but I need to add some inside collars. As is, there’s just not enough room for leg travel. Should be done after another quick trip to Home Depot.

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Summarizing this so I remember it.

From John Grimek’s “Developing Greater Strength” article:

Start with a warmup weight that can be pressed 5 or 6 times easily.
Press at 75% for 3 reps.
Press at 85% for 2-3 reps.
Then add 5-10 lbs and do a single. Repeat until limit has been reached.

Then, add 20 lbs and do 2-3 push presses.
Add weight and keep doing push presses to a limit.

Keep the same weight on the bar and attempt to press it. This will be an isometric lift since it’s significantly higher than the press max. Hold for several seconds or failure.
Add weight and repeat.

–

He also suggests bench press lockouts, but not in the same workout. (He doesn’t specify that for sure, but he seems to have changed topics.)

5-6 rep bench press lockouts with a weight 50-100 lbs heavier than your max press. Work to increase this over time.

–

Again, not necessarily the same workout, but he suggests overhead [squat] lockouts/supports.

Start with a weight 50 lbs more than max jerk.
Squat underneath, arms straight and stand up. Support for several seconds overhead.
Add weight and make 6-8 attempts.

–

From “Stability, Pull, Lockout Power” by Charles A. Smith.

All these are with the “basic power bar”. Some of them are mid-century olympic lifting style specific. Do the full movements first, then do this partial work after a 5-10 minute rest. The first two are relevant to pressing.

  1. 2" lockout presses
    Start with a weight 20-30 pounds below max jerk. Press, lower very slowly, rest 3 sec, repeat.
    Once you can do 3x15, add 10 lbs and start at 3x10. Work to 3x20 and repeat.

  2. 1" lockout overhead squats (press grip)
    Start with a weight 20-30 pounds below max jerk.
    Start with 3x10 to get used to the movement, then add 10lbs. Do 3x10, work to 3x20, repeat.

  3. Deficit deadlifts from feet height
    Start at 3x7, work to 3x15.

  4. Deadlifts from the knee
    Lower slowly. Start at 3x4, work to 3x10.

  5. Half upright rows from the waist
    3x8 to 3x15.

  6. Overhead Squats, snatch grip
    Start at the bottom of a deep squat. Start at a weight 20 lbs below the best snatch. Stand up. Descend slowly.
    3x5 to 3x10

–

The Hise “Symbolic Squat”.

“One of the exercises suggested by Joe Hise was his “Symbolic Squat.” You simply held an extremely heavy weight across the shoulders, shrugged them as high as you could at the same time taking several deep breaths, making an effort to inhale and exhale! The body was held erect, the knees locked, the floor was “gripped” with the toes . . . that is, the toes pressed down on the floor. Hise suggested that the exerciser should breath through the mouth, lift the chest HIGH with each breath, contract the trapezius and the muscle in front of the neck, making a DELIBERATE effort to raise the chest and shoulders as high as possible.”

Lots of claims about doing this regarding improved posture, improved breathing, improved recovery, improved endurance.

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Gave that Grimek workout concept a shot.

Standing Overhead Press
95 x 5
115 x 3
125 x 2
130 x 1
135 x 1
140 x 0 (got it started, but not enough drive)

Push Press (these should have been doubles, not singles)
140 x 1
155 x 1
165 x 0

Isometric Press Start
165 x failure
185 x failure

The bench pressing from yesterday seemed to affect my triceps strength (no, really?). The push press lockout failed because of that.
The isometric work was difficult.

Anyway, now that my shoulders and arms were shot…

~1" Press-grip Overhead Squat Supports
135 x 10s
155 x 10s
175 x 4s
175 x 4s
175 x 6s
175 x 8s
175 x 6s

So, I guess 7 attempts total. These were actually very difficult. Zero tolerance for not having everything perfectly lined up, since the slightest shift would swing the weight forward.

Supposedly both John Grimek and Ronald Walker (England’s best presser, mid 20th century) used these hanging from chains overhead. Not exactly the same bar, but the same concept. Grimek was able to handle something like 1000 lbs supported overhead. I have a ways to go.

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I didn’t lift yesterday. Did a bunch of reading before bed. And then I spent all last night dreaming of overhead pressing, and training for overhead pressing.

There was a lot I was going to write down here, about things I learned, but there’s really only a couple important points I can remember.

Reading about some of the Chinese Olympic weightlifting stuff was really informative. This was new info I’d never seen.

  1. For overhead work, instead of externally rotating the arms (“show armpits to the audience”), do the opposite. At the top of the lift, the elbows should be pointed back as far as possible, the shoulders should be shrugged, and the head should be pushed through (“like a turtle coming out of its shell”). Apparently this is considered a far more stable overhead position.

  2. Front squats are not really trained for recovering from the clean, but rather they’re used for training upper back extension and core strength. With a weightlifting front rack, the hands are wide and elbows are out (vs in, as in the US). It’s fine if the torso is leaning forward, it doesn’t have to remain upright (again, as in the US.)

The bar itself is in the palms. Coming up from the bottom, push up on the bar with the hands. The important thing is to keep the back straight, not to train the legs. Back squat is used for training the legs.

  1. Clean pulls (~deadlifts) are done working to a max, always. Work to keep the back straight, then continue as the back rounds. Once the bar stops moving, stop. Then do a backoff set at 80% for 2x2.

  2. Jogging backwards can be used to cool down after clean pulls.

  3. Squats and clean pulls are not done on the same day, since training on one affects training on the other. Squats can be trained 80-85% 1RM for 8-10 sets of 3-5 reps, 2x a week (but 3 is ok). This is assuming squats are a weakness.

  4. Every workout involves training one or two “small” muscles, like the triceps, upper back, lats. These are done for 6 sets of however many reps as necessary. Whether to just “soreness” or to failure. Overhead plate extensions being one exercise.

The internal rotation thing is interesting though. If you look at how pullups are done on rings, it works that way… external rotation at the bottom, internal rotation at the top. I played with it a bit with just a broomstick (actually, a broom), and it feels pretty solid if you do the full corkscrew approach (e.g., Pavel). Basically, bend the center of the bar toward you at the bottom, bend it away from you at the top.

I’ll give it a shot later today with some real weight.

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The other thing I forgot.

I tried using Walkway’s suggestion of doing lateral raises sitting on a bench where the bench blocks your hands from going any lower.

I can do that relatively pain free with my right arm, but it’s painful with my left. I adjusted my shoulder position a bit, and found a spot where it stopped hurting with my left. I don’t know my anatomy that well, but basically pulling the bottom inside portion of my shoulderblade into my ribcage makes that much better. Lower traps I believe.

I haven’t yet figured out how to target that specific area, but it seems like I might have a way to reduce/eliminate the pain I’ve been getting in my left shoulder. I have a few ideas.

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Repeated my workout from two days ago, just to see how recovered or not I’d be. Surprisingly, I improved in everything.

Standing Overhead Press
95 x 5
115 x 3
125 x 2
130 x 1
135 x 1
140 x 1
145 x 0

Push Press
165 x 0
165 x 1 – difficult rep
170 x 0 – after looking at the video, just looks like the bar got too far out in front

Isometric Press Start
170 x 6s
180 x 4s

~1" Press-grip Overhead Squat Supports
155 x 10s
175 x 2,2 – just couldn’t find where it was balanced
175 x 10s
175 x 10s
185 x 2,2 – same problem finding the balance point
185 x 10s
185 x 6s
185 x 5s

Everything improved. Very surprised. I guess I’ll be doing this Monday.

There’s a slight weirdness around my left low back. It’s not exactly sore, but it feels like my back is bending a lot right there, but nowhere else. Noticed this on the overhead supports. Those are still extremely difficult.

Also, the “externally rotate → internally rotate” cue seems to work really well. Point elbows forward at the bottom, back at the top. All the pressing and push pressing was done with a false grip.

However, the overhead support work was done with thumbs around, since I felt more solid on that. I haven’t yet decided which works better for me for the press. May just go back and forth for awhile.

Couple videos:

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I remembered most of what I was going to write down. Sorry for being overly prolific today.

Components of the press:
Strong alignment and stability, so knees, hips, low back, ribcage, upper back, shoulders, elbows, wrists all need to be positioned right
Lockout strength
Strength off the chest
Ability to get through the sticking point
Upper chest mass to make a better shelf and for initial drive
Lat mass to make a better shelf
Power to accelerate the bar through the lift
Deltoid mass
Wrist strength
Bar path/keeping it back over the midline of the body

Tools to do that:
Overhead lockouts
Press-grip overhead squat lockouts
Overhead holds/supports
Overhead squats
Z presses
Sots presses
Kneeling presses
Overhead walks
Front squats
Zerchers, in various forms
High inclines
High incline partials, bottom, mid and top
Seated press (and the same partials)
Press-grip Bench lockouts
Bench supports
Dick’s presses
BTN presses, seated and standing
Press starts
High rep, bottom ROM bench work, decline, flat and incline
Wrist curls
Overhead wrist curls
Presses with chains, to force acceleration
Benches with chains
Isometric work at bottom, middle, top
Front, Rear, Lateral raises
Overhead shrugs
Burnout presses (of all sorts)
Bent rows
Close grip bench
Wide grip upright rows
Bradford presses

Not really in order. Should be fairly comprehensive.

My current weaknesses are primarily bar path and core stability. So…
Z presses
Dick’s presses
BTN presses
Press-grip overhead squat lockouts
Overhead supports
Front squats
Zerchers

In addition to full presses.

I don’t really want to be all perfect and predictive in this, I’m just getting stuff out there to reference in the future when I’m trying to figure out what’s failing.

135

Handstand push-ups really helped out my press as well. Just learning where the alignment of my body to shoulder was strongest.

136

I took a break to sort some stuff out.

The break was good for both my joints and my mind. I sort of lost the forest for the trees. Plus, stuff was hurting.

I’m running one of the greyskull templates right now. Nothing special. Weights are heavy enough to do something, but still plenty light.

Hammer curls with my newest bar (the neutral grip one) don’t hurt me. So far, neutral grip overhead presses don’t hurt either.

I’m doing some bodyweight “physio” lunges throughout the day to try and fix my kneecap tracking issues. These are pretty much like a split squat without the rear foot elevation. My knees have been probably the single most problematic thing keeping me from squatting for a long time.

If anyone’s curious, template is basically:

Day 1
Medium Incline Bench, 2x5, 1+
Curls, 2x10-12
Squats, 2x5, 1+

Day 2
Overhead Presses, 2x5, 1+
Weighted Ring Chins, 2x6-8
Bent Rows, 2x10-12
Deadlifts, 1+

Day 3
Decline Bench, 2x5, 1+
Curls 2x10-12
Squats 2x5, 1+

Repeat.

May track here when the weights move up a bit and I’m actually doing everything I just laid out.

My new rule is to do just avoid things that hurt / adjust so they don’t hurt. Well and also to stop thinking about things so much.

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Good to have you back dude.

138

T3hPwnisher: thanks.

–

Since I was on here lurking today, I might as well say something.

Been kind of in and out of town, so access to equipment changes with that. Been hiking probably about as much as lifting, which is not to say a whole lot of either. (Actually, 2-3x a week for both, while in town, so maybe that’s all right.) Found an awesome waterfall last week in some kinda remote forest area. Probably the most impressive I’ve ever seen.

Otherwise, still doing the same thing. Weights are still light. Reps on the + sets are still high. I’m actually pretty ok with that.

It feels pretty good to have joints that seem to work right, most of the time. That neutral grip bar makes a huge difference for overhead pressing and curls. Doing pretty well with the not overthinking thing too.

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Ugh, I shouldn’t care, but I do.

That article was kinda bad. Lots of cherry picking among a whole lot of people who have completely different dietary practices.

I mean, you can kind of generalize about the typical American diet, because most everyone in America has access to the same foods, and is bombarded by the same marketing. At least there’s some chance that people have an idea of… and maybe actually eat… the typical American diet.

But there are literally millions upon millions of people in China alone who primarily eat wheat, not rice. There are even more people who don’t eat seaweed, in any form, ever. Herbs and spices only make it into places that traditionally had access to herbs and spices. Preparation and “eating as an event” varies significantly from place to place; for that matter, several cities are well known (and have been for hundreds of years) for their variety of quick street foods. Squatting is common in some places, and completely unheard of in many others.

Just so many things wrong with that article.

That said, there are a lot more fermented foods in nearly every single Asian cuisine. But, that’s about it.

And really, “In Asian culture, eating is…”? So, exactly how does the White culture eat?

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I managed to reinjure my shoulders a week or so ago by 1) fatiguing them with a light weight, followed by 2) “I wonder if I can lift this”. They’re basically fine now. Learned my lesson. The problem wasn’t 2, it was doing 1 first.

Pressing, bench and overhead, are moving along slowly – that’s a good thing. 5lbs a week per exercise, and right around 15 or so reps on my AMRAP sets. I was too focused on low-rep neuromuscular strength before, and hadn’t paid my dues with volume. In general, my upper body joints are still feeling good.

Incline press is at 110 for 5, 5, 15+
Wide neutral-grip overhead is at 65 for 5, 5, 15+
Narrow neutral-grip curls are at 65 for 2x8
Narrow neutral-grip rows are at 75 for 2x15
Ring chins are right around 2x5 +/- a few, depending

If I’m not careful, I look at that and somewhat berate myself for those numbers. Somewhere between “obviously I can do far more than that, so why not increase the weights?” and “after training for a couple years, that’s all you can do?”. It’s hard work keeping those thoughts in check.

Lower-body I’m not deadlifting or squatting right now. I’m working on getting my left knee to work correctly, and some weirdness at my left low-back. Basically same area where I was getting that SI joint pain before. Some single leg glute bridges for that, and single-leg squats for the other. Think of a bulgarian-split squat, but your back foot is still on the ground. It’s not really a lunge, since your weight is over your front knee. Seem to be making some progress there.

Did a 7 mile hike the other day through hilly rocky terrain. Lots of questionable footing (in terms of rolling ankles, mostly, but also occasionally in terms of falling off a cliff). It was good for me on many levels.