Lifting Weights on Chemo

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 2, Day 3
04-06-14

Bench Press (Light Day)
7 x 67.5kg
7 x 67.5
7 x 67.5
7 x 67.5

Barbell Press
10 x 32.5kg
10 x 32.5
10 x 32.5

DB Front Delts
8 x 12.5kg Pair
8 x 10
8 x 10

DB Side Delts
10 x 10kg Pair
10 x 10
10 x 10

DB Rear Delts
8 x 12.5kg Pair
8 x 10
10 x 10

DB Skull Crusher
8 x 12.5kg Pair
10 x 10
10 x 10

Incline DB Curl
8 x 12.5kg Pair
10 x 10
10 x 10

Light day just calls for +2.5kg added to each bench set, and I am adding 2.5kg per workout to Overhead Press sets also.
Trying to keep all my benching explosive on the light sets.

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 2, Day 4
06-06-14

Bench Press (Medium Day)
5 x 82.5kg
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5

Barbell Press
7 x 37.5kg
7 x 37.5
7 x 37.5
7 x 37.5

Chins
8 x underhand
8 x hammer
8 x wide overhand
8 x overhand

Dips
8, 8, 8, 8

BB Curl
7 x 25kg
7 x 25
7 x 25
7 x 25

Much the same as last time, but added +2.5kg to each bench and OHP set. It was really challenging but was never in danger of failing any reps.

A bit of a queasy gut but no major physical side effects so far this cycle. I have been sleeping poorly though, only 5 hours really. And this has been impacting my moods and mindset.

I have been thinking a lot about the danger of inoperable peritoneal mets and that was grimming me the fuck out.

But I read a heap of stuff about diet and exercise in cancer treatment today. One fairly broad study showed eating fish twice a week and exercising regularly, reduced recurrence by 50% in a range of cancers, including my variety.

So back to my engineering mindset: I have approximately 70% likelyhood of being sweet, so let’s say 30% danger, divided by two thanks to my dedication to diet and heavy exercise, leaves me with 85%+ safety net. I dig that rationalisation shit.

Note: I am not being morbid or anything, just giving a glance into the kinda thoughts which fly through my head all the time. Haha.

One second you are joking around with your bros just as you always did, the next second you realise your life is pretty fucked up right now. But there is light on the horizon, and you can’t ask for much more than that :slight_smile:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
I have been thinking a lot about the danger of inoperable peritoneal mets and that was grimming me the fuck out.

But I read a heap of stuff about diet and exercise in cancer treatment today. One fairly broad study showed eating fish twice a week and exercising regularly, reduced recurrence by 50% in a range of cancers, including my variety.

So back to my engineering mindset: I have approximately 70% likelyhood of being sweet, so let’s say 30% danger, divided by two thanks to my dedication to diet and heavy exercise, leaves me with 85%+ safety net. I dig that rationalisation shit.

Note: I am not being morbid or anything, just giving a glance into the kinda thoughts which fly through my head all the time. Haha.

One second you are joking around with your bros just as you always did, the next second you realise your life is pretty fucked up right now. But there is light on the horizon, and you can’t ask for much more than that :-)[/quote]

its funny how an experience like this probably makes you feel all the more mortal, but to us on here, it makes you seem like a super hero. I can’t imagine what it must be like, to go through surgery and chemo and all that, and i am willing to bet i wouldn’t be as strong as you through it all. Keep it up man, you came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and you’re all out of bubble gum.

Not quite the same obv, but I can kind of relate to how your moods are fluctuating. My mum passed away recently from dementia. She had mild dementia then a fall down stairs broke her hip & the op caused her to go from mild to severe overnight. One day I could have a conversation with her & the next day I couldn’t, although she was still alive. Life changed in a day. I looked after her for just over a year before she died & now I sometimes have some crazy fucked up stuff in my head.

One minute I’m laughing at the TV the next I’m realising what happened. Often it feels like I’m in some strange parallel universe & all this stuff never happened esp when you see everything else in the world going on as normal. It does make you very aware of your own mortality & stuff. Anyway dunno if any of that made sense to you? I think focussing on lifting is very helpful, both for your physical self and your mind.

Your weights seem to be going up well on the bench, do you feel more confident now in pushing a bit more without feeling or worrying you might split your stomach open?

[quote]zenontheterrible wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
I have been thinking a lot about the danger of inoperable peritoneal mets and that was grimming me the fuck out.

But I read a heap of stuff about diet and exercise in cancer treatment today. One fairly broad study showed eating fish twice a week and exercising regularly, reduced recurrence by 50% in a range of cancers, including my variety.

So back to my engineering mindset: I have approximately 70% likelyhood of being sweet, so let’s say 30% danger, divided by two thanks to my dedication to diet and heavy exercise, leaves me with 85%+ safety net. I dig that rationalisation shit.

Note: I am not being morbid or anything, just giving a glance into the kinda thoughts which fly through my head all the time. Haha.

One second you are joking around with your bros just as you always did, the next second you realise your life is pretty fucked up right now. But there is light on the horizon, and you can’t ask for much more than that :-)[/quote]

its funny how an experience like this probably makes you feel all the more mortal, but to us on here, it makes you seem like a super hero. I can’t imagine what it must be like, to go through surgery and chemo and all that, and i am willing to bet i wouldn’t be as strong as you through it all. Keep it up man, you came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and you’re all out of bubble gum. [/quote]

Haha I love that quote, but I forget which movie it’s from. Predator contains some pretty amazing tough guy quotes:

Poncho: “You’re bleeding, man. You’re hit.”
Blain: “I ain’t got time to bleed.”


I think everyone falls into two categories… Those who let circumstance beat them down, and those who relentlessly beat down on circumstance. How hardcore it appears just depends on how severe the circumstance, relative to the by-standers’ own experience.

What I am saying is I’m sure most people on a site like this would react the same way. Because if you’re hardcore enough to put your own body through hell, ignore pain and deny the existence of limitations, you’re hardcore enough for pretty much anything.

[quote]Lift and Eat wrote:
Not quite the same obv, but I can kind of relate to how your moods are fluctuating. My mum passed away recently from dementia. She had mild dementia then a fall down stairs broke her hip & the op caused her to go from mild to severe overnight. One day I could have a conversation with her & the next day I couldn’t, although she was still alive. Life changed in a day. I looked after her for just over a year before she died & now I sometimes have some crazy fucked up stuff in my head.

One minute I’m laughing at the TV the next I’m realising what happened. Often it feels like I’m in some strange parallel universe & all this stuff never happened esp when you see everything else in the world going on as normal. It does make you very aware of your own mortality & stuff. Anyway dunno if any of that made sense to you? I think focussing on lifting is very helpful, both for your physical self and your mind.

Your weights seem to be going up well on the bench, do you feel more confident now in pushing a bit more without feeling or worrying you might split your stomach open? [/quote]

That’s awesome you were there for your mother, and my delayed condolences bro. Actually, I think having to endure the suffering of someone you love is far more painful than experiencing it yourself. I remember the whole time I was going through a world of shit in hospital, with my dad there watching me - I was just glad it wasn’t reversed. I bet if you could have, you would have taken on some of your mother’s suffering and not complained a word about it.


Yeah I am pretty happy with how the bench is progressing. Considering my all-time best is only about 20kg away, and that was at 17kg more bodyweight hah… my bench always did suck though. I feel I will get a PB this year and at much less BW, looking forward to it.
Correct I feel more confident in not rupturing my gut. Also I have got some flexibility back so I can bench with a moderate arch, which helps.

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 2, Day 5
07-06-14

Squat
5 x 92.5kg
5 x 92.5
5 x 92.5

Deadlift
5 x 80kg
5 x 80
5 x 80

DB Single Leg Calf Raise
15 x 20kg
15 x 20
15 x 20
15 x 20
15 x 20

Happy with today’s session, did the standard Starting Strength style adding +7.5kg to squats and +10kg to deadlifts.

So last night a wave of nausea hit me out of nowhere and I couldn’t finish my dinner. I had an early night and woke up feeling exhausted but less sickly. It crept back again during my training today, but I haven’t actually vomited yet which is nice.

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 3, Day 1
09-06-14

Bench Press (Heavy Day)
1 x 100kg
1 x 100
1 x 100
1 x 100
1 x 100
3 x 90
3 x 90
3 x 90
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5
5 x 82.5

Barbell Press
5 x 45kg
5 x 45
5 x 45
5 x 45

Bench Row
5 x 65kg
5 x 65
5 x 65
5 x 65

DB Skull Crusher
5 x 15kg Pair
5 x 15
5 x 15
5 x 15

DB Curl
5 x 15kg Pair
5 x 15
5 x 15
5 x 15

I know I say this every Monday, but this workout was legit horrible. I got all the required reps, though at the lower end of the “5-7 reps” required for accessories and the lighter bench sets.

Really happy I am done haha.

Next week will be… interesting. This was the final week of +5kg so next Monday I need to add +2.5kg to all sets.

For some reason I woke up this morning and the first thought that entered my head was that I should check panzerfaust’s log. So I did. And I am glad that I did.

Feel free to ignore this question or tell me to fuck right off if I am out of line, but now that you’ve been at this awhile is there a verdict from your oncologist on whether or not the lifting is a net positive for the whole process? You are obviously dedicated to this and it is definitely working for you, but I am curious what your doctors think about it. What you are doing is unusual, to say the least, and as you’ve pointed out, it flies in the face of what doctors generally advise people on chemo to do.

When my father was battling his cancer he seemed much better off physically and mentally when he was staying active. His oncologist would have never advised him to a lot of the things he did while he was undergoing treatment, but getting outside and working up a sweat did a whole lot more for his state of mind than sitting in a chair taking it easy ever did.

Stay strong.

“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general.”

-Mark Rippetoe

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
For some reason I woke up this morning and the first thought that entered my head was that I should check panzerfaust’s log. So I did. And I am glad that I did.

Feel free to ignore this question or tell me to fuck right off if I am out of line, but now that you’ve been at this awhile is there a verdict from your oncologist on whether or not the lifting is a net positive for the whole process? You are obviously dedicated to this and it is definitely working for you, but I am curious what your doctors think about it. What you are doing is unusual, to say the least, and as you’ve pointed out, it flies in the face of what doctors generally advise people on chemo to do.

When my father was battling his cancer he seemed much better off physically and mentally when he was staying active. His oncologist would have never advised him to a lot of the things he did while he was undergoing treatment, but getting outside and working up a sweat did a whole lot more for his state of mind than sitting in a chair taking it easy ever did.

Stay strong.

“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general.”

-Mark Rippetoe

[/quote]

Hey bro, cheers for stopping by!
I’m always down to answer any questions, so feel free to shoot away. I enjoy discussing the treatment and illness; kind of helpful to externalise it, I think.

I’m treated by two people: my Oncologist, and my Oncology Registrar. She sees me every 2-3 visits, and her Registrar fills in the gaps.
Typical of cancer medicine in general, they have somewhat different views. My oncologist says she always encourages people to do some mild exercise; ie gentle walking but jokes about needing to tell me the opposite, and that I probably do too much.
The Registrar however, told me at the last appointment that he’s really impressed I’m doing exercise your average Joe would consider fairly serious, and said he thinks it will help give me the best chance possible.

So no real specific answers, but they are both in agreement that it benefits me mentally in a Huge way. Therefore they are happy for me to continue doing what I’m doing.

Personally I notice a correlation between the intensity increasing and the fatigue diminishing. Like I’m fairly far through my chemo now and the only Real side effects currently are fluctuating bouts of nausea.

I will be writing to the hospital voicing my opinion they are lacking in physiotherapy support for people like me. Example:

My flatmate injured his hand skate-boarding, and has free physio sessions 2 x weekly.
vs
I had a foot-long gut incision, lost 20kg, and am battling to rebuild my body just hoping I don’t bust my incision open in the process. I have been offered NOTHING in terms of physio.

Does that seem fair? No… but I can tell you why. We have a system here called ACC, or Accident Compensation Commission. It means when you get injured (through sport, accident, anything) the government pays 80% of your wages while you rehabilitate.

However, people off work with long-term illness (cancer for example) get nothing. All we can do is apply for the standard unemployment benefit, a paltry $200-$300 per week.
Thankfully, I am managing to work nearly full time, so I am not poor. But shit if I couldn’t do that, my life would be a nightmare.

So in short: the government is happy to provide extensive services for people who are costing the government large amounts of money… in order to get them back to work faster. But for people like me, they provide the minimum health care required by our laws.

------excuse the massive rant!

Sounds like your father was in a similar kind of situation to me then, and displayed a great attitude. I find people like that inspiring, particularly when they are older.

Sometimes I wonder whether the mortality rate of various cancers is skewed by the fact many people who have them are older and less likely to be exercising heavily or at all.

------awesome quote there, thanks :slight_smile:

Sounds like your govt is just as back to front as ours when it comes to helping the people who need it.

Physiotherapy can be a hit & miss affair in the UK too. I had an elbow injury & got free physio via the Nat health service but after 5 sessions, where it had improved but not been cured, I was told the next step would be for me to be offered a cortisol injection which I did not want. While waiting for a follow-up appt, I saved up & paid privately for some ART trestment. In 2 sessions of this I was able to do exes I hadn’t done pain free in about 2 months. They don’t offer this on the Nat health service but would rather pay for me to have 5 reg physio sessions & then an injection than two 30mins ART appts! I wrote a letter about this to feedback, but got no reply.

Sort of related to the training being beneficial, I saw on the news the other day that hand grip strength can be used to predict cancer outcomes. People with higher grip strength it seems have better quality of life & also potentially higher chances of survival.

You might find this useful too
http://m.annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/01/07/annonc.mdt551.full

I just got caught up on the log. You are doing great in here, man. I want to offer a couple of thoughts because I am about to complete my master’s in medical sciences/apply to med school, and I, like you, enjoy training. I am not a doctor (yet) and am not trying to offer medical advice or anything, but your log got me thinking:

First of all, it doesn’t surprise me that your oncologist is reluctant to encourage too much exercise. Malpractice is, unfortunately, a major concern for any physician, and so the vast majority would never strongly recommend anything that has not been backed in the literature, animal/clinical trials, etc. That being said, I am sure he/she is sharp and knows what they are doing, and that is why they are not discouraging you either.

This absence of discouragement brings me to my second point, which is that your mental/emotional state is critical, as you obviously know. Many people with cancer diagnoses develop (not surprisingly) a number of mental health disorders: depression, anxiety, and so on. These people find themselves, as you have described in this log, ruminating on the subject of death far more than they ever had in the past.

I believe (this is, finally, my point) that you are prime example of what many of these individuals should be doing, focusing on life! Not only will it probably improve your prognosis, but every day that goes by is a chance to enjoy life. I am glad to see someone such as yourself who refuses to lay down quietly.

Sorry for the novel, bud! If you skipped all of that, just keep killin it!

[quote]Lift and Eat wrote:
Sounds like your govt is just as back to front as ours when it comes to helping the people who need it.

Physiotherapy can be a hit & miss affair in the UK too. I had an elbow injury & got free physio via the Nat health service but after 5 sessions, where it had improved but not been cured, I was told the next step would be for me to be offered a cortisol injection which I did not want. While waiting for a follow-up appt, I saved up & paid privately for some ART trestment. In 2 sessions of this I was able to do exes I hadn’t done pain free in about 2 months. They don’t offer this on the Nat health service but would rather pay for me to have 5 reg physio sessions & then an injection than two 30mins ART appts! I wrote a letter about this to feedback, but got no reply.

Sort of related to the training being beneficial, I saw on the news the other day that hand grip strength can be used to predict cancer outcomes. People with higher grip strength it seems have better quality of life & also potentially higher chances of survival.

You might find this useful too
http://m.annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/01/07/annonc.mdt551.full[/quote]

Well done for taking the initiative in your own health. It’s a classic case of not simply accepting the initial treatment plan, but looking to see what may work better for you personally.
Haha, the hand grip thing was interesting! Though I do not deadlift 500lb currently, I bet my grip is still stronger than 99% of cancer patients ;-).
Cheers for the links! Some of that may be useful when I write to the health minister after my treatment is complete.

[quote]dhock wrote:
I just got caught up on the log. You are doing great in here, man. I want to offer a couple of thoughts because I am about to complete my master’s in medical sciences/apply to med school, and I, like you, enjoy training. I am not a doctor (yet) and am not trying to offer medical advice or anything, but your log got me thinking:

First of all, it doesn’t surprise me that your oncologist is reluctant to encourage too much exercise. Malpractice is, unfortunately, a major concern for any physician, and so the vast majority would never strongly recommend anything that has not been backed in the literature, animal/clinical trials, etc. That being said, I am sure he/she is sharp and knows what they are doing, and that is why they are not discouraging you either.

This absence of discouragement brings me to my second point, which is that your mental/emotional state is critical, as you obviously know. Many people with cancer diagnoses develop (not surprisingly) a number of mental health disorders: depression, anxiety, and so on. These people find themselves, as you have described in this log, ruminating on the subject of death far more than they ever had in the past.

I believe (this is, finally, my point) that you are prime example of what many of these individuals should be doing, focusing on life! Not only will it probably improve your prognosis, but every day that goes by is a chance to enjoy life. I am glad to see someone such as yourself who refuses to lay down quietly.

Sorry for the novel, bud! If you skipped all of that, just keep killin it![/quote]

How’s it going man. Novels always welcome.

Firstly, congratulations for your impending graduation. The world needs more doctors who lift!

Your point about malpractice is extremely valid, I hadn’t actually thought of that before. Of course the oncologist won’t recommend anything which is not approved in their text books. Funnily, the only ones who STRONGLY discouraged me were junior Onc doctors / nurses, probably paranoid of getting reprimanded early in their careers.
I guess it pays to take a wider view of things at times.

It’s a very fine line between chilling away the days of treatment and slipping into deep emotional darkness, thankfully I very rarely cross it. And yes in this respect, the exercise is probably even more beneficial for me than some - as it is an emotional and mental victory every single time I complete a workout. Beyond just the obvious physical benefits.

Today for example. I woke at 2am from dreaming I was vomiting, in a world of nausea and shit. I had broken sleep from 3am until 7ish when I gave up on lying in bed. Got up and took my dog out to the park in the rain, the fresh air and movement helped a lot. Got home and smashed some food - slowly as my stomach really didn’t want to eat. THen I finally had the energy for my training. Rambling hard, but my point is when I awoke there was NO way I was going to exercise or do anything today. But by forcing little steps into my day, I got shit done.

As you elude to, I recently have been trying to view this time as not just “the miserable chemo months” but as “my first months to enjoy life post-cancer, after 3 years of being sick”. I may feel shit at times, but it’s NOTHING compared to the past.

Thanks for the encouragement. I have zero intention of leaving the world for many years; have a daughter to chase boys away from and a dog to discipline. Haha

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 3, Day 2
10-06-14

Squat
5 x 100kg
5 x 100
5 x 100

DB Leg Raise
20 x 12.5kg
20 x 12.5
20 x 12.5
20 x 12.5
20 x 12.5

DB Single Leg Calf Raise
10 x 25kg
10 x 25
10 x 25
10 x 25
10 x 25

+7.5kg again today, but bar speed was poor so the increments will drop for the next session. I am thrilled to be 5-repping a weight I only managed a single for a few weeks ago. Clearly a long way to go, but baby steps and all that.

Thanks to all above for the interesting and positive comments recently.

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 3, Day 3
11-06-14

Bench Press (Light Day)
7 x 70kg
7 x 70
7 x 70
7 x 70

Barbell Press
10 x 35kg
10 x 35
10 x 35

DB Front Delts
10 x 10kg Pair
10 x 10
10 x 10

DB Side Delts
10 x 10kg Pair
10 x 10
10 x 10

DB Rear Delts
10 x 10kg Pair
10 x 10
10 x 10

DB Skull Crusher
10 x 12.5kg Pair
10 x 12.5
10 x 12.5

Incline DB Curl
10 x 12.5kg Pair
10 x 12.5
10 x 12.5

Another +2.5kg on bench and OHP sets.

This workout was light but shit it was hard, as I’m experiencing some ridiculous levels of fatigue today. Like, had to lie on the floor between sets ridiculous haha. Yesterday, the doctors doubled my dosage of Nozinan, which is an anti-nausea. However its other use is anti-psychotic, so it fries your CNS big-time. Hopefully after a few days I will adapt and reclaim my energy. Bright side: no nausea!

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 3, Day 4
13-06-14

Bench Press (Medium Day)
5 x 85kg
5 x 85
3 x 85
3 x 85
3 x 85
3 x 85
3 x 85

Barbell Press
5 x 40kg
5 x 40
5 x 40
5 x 40

Chins
8 x underhand
8 x hammer
8 x wide overhand
8 x overhand

Dips
8, 8, 8, 8

DB Hammer Curl
7 x 15kg
7 x 15
7 x 15
7 x 15

I had to revert to the minimal reps of the 3-5 bench sets. Weighing in at 81kg now, slowly gaining weight back

I’m a bit late to this but just wanted to say much respect for what you’re doing. Every once in awhile I start feeling bad for my recent health issues and then I read something like this and it puts things back into perspective for me. Your’e clearly a fighter and the world would be a better place with more people like you. I wish you a quick road to recovery and good luck with you training and more importantly your health.

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I’m a bit late to this but just wanted to say much respect for what you’re doing. Every once in awhile I start feeling bad for my recent health issues and then I read something like this and it puts things back into perspective for me. Your’e clearly a fighter and the world would be a better place with more people like you. I wish you a quick road to recovery and good luck with you training and more importantly your health. [/quote]

Thanks bro, that is massively appreciated!
As I’ve said, health and suffering are all relative. I don’t consider my problems any more serious than anybody else’s; they’re just my draw.
Best wishes conquering your own health demons, and we can revisit this again in as two healthy and strong mofos!

6 Week Anthony Ditillo Bench Program
Week 3, Day 5
14-06-14

Squat
5 x 105kg
5 x 105
5 x 105

Deadlift
5 x 90kg
5 x 90
5 x 90

DB Single Leg Calf Raise
15 x 20kg
15 x 20
15 x 20
15 x 20
15 x 20

+10kg for deadlifts and plus only 5kg for squats as my bar speed was rubbish last session.
I experienced a lot of negativity around today: wanted to skip the session, wanted to stop each squat set by 3 reps, wanted to skip deadlifting, wanted to do 1 x 5 not 3 x 5, wanted to skip calves.
Anyway I got it all done, and I am pleased with myself. I hope this fatigue of the last week is not the new normal. Because let me tell you: it’s a bitch.