[quote]illadelphia91 wrote:
^ do you think it’s necessary if I’m getting enough protein from whole food? [/quote]
According to your goals and activity level.
I have been doing some seriously long hard workouts, and I had to add back in a protein shake before bed. It has made a huge difference in my recovery and energy levels.
You will have to do a food diary and work out log and chart energy levels. IMO
This will allow you to decide if you need to supplement
[quote]illadelphia91 wrote:
So I think I have been having digestive issues with drinking whey protein shakes and I think I want to stop drinking them for a while. I have taken a break from it for a week and have felt much better, but when I started drinking it again, the problems came back. Basically, I get diarrhea from drinking them.
[/quote]
me too. I ditched the shakes and I’ve never felt better. I really recommend it.
It’s not really that hard to get your day’s worth of protein from whole food, although it is definitely more expensive.
BCAAs are good for fasted training, other than that I don’t really see the benefit.
Those having issues with Whey shakes: Are you using concentrate or isolate? I used concentrate for years and had issues. I recently decided to try isolate after doing some reading, finding out it might be the TYPE of whey, not just protein powder in general that was causing issues. It’s hydrolyzed isolate to be exact. Have been through a 5lb tub and have had ZERO issues.
[quote]cueball wrote:
Those having issues with Whey shakes: Are you using concentrate or isolate? I used concentrate for years and had issues. I recently decided to try isolate after doing some reading, finding out it might be the TYPE of whey, not just protein powder in general that was causing issues. It’s hydrolyzed isolate to be exact. Have been through a 5lb tub and have had ZERO issues.
[/quote]
tried them all mate, same deal. Casein too. Cheers for the suggestion though
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]cueball wrote:
Those having issues with Whey shakes: Are you using concentrate or isolate? I used concentrate for years and had issues. I recently decided to try isolate after doing some reading, finding out it might be the TYPE of whey, not just protein powder in general that was causing issues. It’s hydrolyzed isolate to be exact. Have been through a 5lb tub and have had ZERO issues.
[/quote]
tried them all mate, same deal. Casein too. Cheers for the suggestion though[/quote]
What about Egg? I only ask cause recently been using it with no issues.
But I have a stomach like a goat and never had issues with any whey
you mean you had no issues… anywhey?
HAHAHAHA
Ha
ha
harrrrrrrr
na mate not tried egg, could maybe give that a go. To be honest, now I’m used to just using solid food, I don’t really miss shakes.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
you mean you had no issues… anywhey?
HAHAHAHA
Ha
ha
harrrrrrrr
na mate not tried egg, could maybe give that a go. To be honest, now I’m used to just using solid food, I don’t really miss shakes.[/quote]
I had been off shakes for a year, just doing food, but recently had to add back.
Sometimes you have to listen to your body. I had sleep issues cause I was dreaming of food and waking up searching for carbs and protein
[quote]cueball wrote:
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
I think people are too worried about “waste” when it comes to protein
Nothing is wasted
If it’s not used for protein synthesis, it’s used for energy. Contrast this with carbs or fat which has no potential for building muscle mass
From an evolutionary perspective, I think massive intakes of protein are normal, feast and famine. As opposed to artificially small doses of protein due to some need to conform to the “6 meals a day”.
Also, the studies done by Norton were related to Leucine and not other amino acids. Blood AA will be elevated after massive doses of protein, but not necessarily Muscle Protein Synthesis.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
how many cals a day are you eating
the 2k drink: what are the ingredients and amounts used (eg 3 scoops of powder, etc)
[/quote]
4 scoops protein powder
maybe 8 tablespoons PB
oil
banana
coconut milk
between 4 and 5k, i probably lift for 2.5 hours every other day so I need about this much to gain… plus I naturally have a fast metabolism
[/quote]
It may not be wasted, but it can be converted to triglycerides, which I’m sure you’re not intentionally doing, right?
Also, I think you evolutionary justification is flawed. “Feast or famine” would really only make sense if you were having large, infrequent burst of protein, as in several day between when you happened to kill an animal. Doesn’t really hold up when you are eating several meals a day and they all contain protein. Not really any “famine periods” going on there.
Also, with some of the links that have been posted, it seems the higher end of a serving suggestion at once is around 50g-60g. I think the additional 80-90g is overkill by a quite a bit. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone even suggest that kind of number as useful.
It’s your powder though. [/quote]
I don’t get your argument. What do you think happens to excess carbs?
if protein can = energy muscle or fat, but carbs can only = energy or fat, why would carbs be better?
as for overkill there are people who eat all their protein in 3-4 hour periods and seem to have made good gains doing so.
also, stop bringing “economical” in arguments unless this is about training on a budget
if you really think you can get less/worse gains off of 400g of protein vs 200 I don’t know what to say
as for that powerpoint you posted, it was related to leucine. The doses of those protein sources were based off of leucine content in those doses. If you have protein in your system, I don’t see why you can’t just supplement leucine to get the same effect.
and I’m kind of skeptical of it because of people who manage to put on muscle when they are on limited feeding windows. Do they rebuild all their muscle in the 3 hours that MPS is elevated? Doubtful
. I’d like to see a study on MPS with people who take in 300-400g of protein in 4 hours
marshaldteach: I am strongly urging you to buy the book Advanced Human Nutrition and Metabolism by Sareen S. Gropper. Perhaps after reading it, you will get a full understanding of nutritional biochemistry because it is probably the most comprehensive book on the subject.
Also, please read anything by Dr. Jeff Volek RD (wrote for this site and competed in powerlifting) and Stephen Phinney.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
marshaldteach: I am strongly urging you to buy the book Advanced Human Nutrition and Metabolism by Sareen S. Gropper. Perhaps after reading it, you will get a full understanding of nutritional biochemistry because it is probably the most comprehensive book on the subject.
Also, please read anything by Dr. Jeff Volek RD (wrote for this site and competed in powerlifting) and Stephen Phinney. [/quote]
maybe I will
am I wrong somewhere, though?
I think you just need to get a broader view and understanding of nutrition. The book I recommend will put the pieces together.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I think you just need to get a broader view and understanding of nutrition. The book I recommend will put the pieces together. [/quote]
well what is wrong with my argument?
how are you going to build more muscle by lowering protein and increasing carbs?
anyway its like I said, carbs are garbage and if I eat more than 500 cals from carbs I lay the fuck around all day and feel like shit
maybe some pro BBers do well on their ridiculously high carb diets because all they do is train but I think if you are training only 5-10 hours a week I don’t think you need 2k calories from carbs or whatever a lot of trash BBing magazines tell people to eat.
my lifts progress just fine on massive protein and fat intakes… if you progress on high carb diets great, I’m not you
not gonna change something that is working
as for the meal timing bullshit, how many studies have followed real bodybuilders around and not random untrained clowns? none? that’s why all this theoretical shit is a joke. 30g of intake in 1 meal, might be great for a 100 lb american with no muscle mass
I’m sorry for my suggestion.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I’m sorry for my suggestion. [/quote]
i just felt like ranting about carbs
they are overrated
its usually the IIFYM clowns who bash protein intake and load up on skittles
I think some people are cheap and try to justify their low protein intakes by telling themselves it doesn’t matter
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
[quote]cueball wrote:
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
I think people are too worried about “waste” when it comes to protein
Nothing is wasted
If it’s not used for protein synthesis, it’s used for energy. Contrast this with carbs or fat which has no potential for building muscle mass
From an evolutionary perspective, I think massive intakes of protein are normal, feast and famine. As opposed to artificially small doses of protein due to some need to conform to the “6 meals a day”.
Also, the studies done by Norton were related to Leucine and not other amino acids. Blood AA will be elevated after massive doses of protein, but not necessarily Muscle Protein Synthesis.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
how many cals a day are you eating
the 2k drink: what are the ingredients and amounts used (eg 3 scoops of powder, etc)
[/quote]
4 scoops protein powder
maybe 8 tablespoons PB
oil
banana
coconut milk
between 4 and 5k, i probably lift for 2.5 hours every other day so I need about this much to gain… plus I naturally have a fast metabolism
[/quote]
It may not be wasted, but it can be converted to triglycerides, which I’m sure you’re not intentionally doing, right?
Also, I think you evolutionary justification is flawed. “Feast or famine” would really only make sense if you were having large, infrequent burst of protein, as in several day between when you happened to kill an animal. Doesn’t really hold up when you are eating several meals a day and they all contain protein. Not really any “famine periods” going on there.
Also, with some of the links that have been posted, it seems the higher end of a serving suggestion at once is around 50g-60g. I think the additional 80-90g is overkill by a quite a bit. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone even suggest that kind of number as useful.
It’s your powder though. [/quote]
I don’t get your argument. What do you think happens to excess carbs?
if protein can = energy muscle or fat, but carbs can only = energy or fat, why would carbs be better?[/quote]
Didn’t think we had to get into why carbs or fat is better for energy than protein. Some stuff about that here: http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/5084/why-breakfast-is-nothing-but-a-scam/
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as for overkill there are people who eat all their protein in 3-4 hour periods and seem to have made good gains doing so.[/quote]
But that’s not really what YOU’RE doing. You are spreading your protein out over the day AND consuming super large doses.
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
also, stop bringing “economical” in arguments unless this is about training on a budget[/quote]
Is this in regards to “It’s your protein”? I don’t care how much you or anybody else spends, that’s not what that statement is about.
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
if you really think you can get less/worse gains off of 400g of protein vs 200 I don’t know what to say[/quote]
Maybe I didn’t make my stance clear enough. I never argued against a daily total sum of protein. My question was to the efficacy of 140g at once instead of split up. Did I write somewhere I though 200 would be better than 400?
My position: 400g spread out over 4-6 doses would be better than spread over 1-2 doses.
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
as for that powerpoint you posted, it was related to leucine. The doses of those protein sources were based off of leucine content in those doses. If you have protein in your system, I don’t see why you can’t just supplement leucine to get the same effect.
and I’m kind of skeptical of it because of people who manage to put on muscle when they are on limited feeding windows. Do they rebuild all their muscle in the 3 hours that MPS is elevated? Doubtful
. I’d like to see a study on MPS with people who take in 300-400g of protein in 4 hours
[/quote]
I didn’t post it, only commented on it for discussion. Anyway, the only thing related to it in my post to you would have been in reference to a serving size suggested in one of the slides.
Again, it really doesn’t matter to me how you do it. All I was doing was discussing it’s necessity and/or effectiveness.
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
its usually the IIFYM clowns who bash protein intake and load up on skittles
I think some people are cheap and try to justify their low protein intakes by telling themselves it doesn’t matter
[/quote]
Hmm I wonder if we come across different sources but when I first read about IIFYM, it was hitting a daily minimum of “required” fat and protein and then filling up the rest of the remaining calories with either carbs or protein. I don’t recall any bashing on protein intake…at least from where I read about it.
[quote]cueball wrote:
I didn’t post it, only commented on it for discussion. Anyway, the only thing related to it in my post to you would have been in reference to a serving size suggested in one of the slides.
Again, it really doesn’t matter to me how you do it. All I was doing was discussing it’s necessity and/or effectiveness.
[/quote]
do I think 400g at once > 400g split up? no. Just like eating 100 days worth of protein in 1 day wouldn’t be too useful either.
but I think 100-150g 3-4x a day vs 60-70 6x a day are probably around the same, or if you want to eat 12 30g meals or whatever. i guess if you like eating every 2-3 hours which is annoying. to me its a pain in the ass and not worth the effort
[quote]shffl wrote:
[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
its usually the IIFYM clowns who bash protein intake and load up on skittles
I think some people are cheap and try to justify their low protein intakes by telling themselves it doesn’t matter
[/quote]
Hmm I wonder if we come across different sources but when I first read about IIFYM, it was hitting a daily minimum of “required” fat and protein and then filling up the rest of the remaining calories with either carbs or protein. I don’t recall any bashing on protein intake…at least from where I read about it.[/quote]
true, but some people who follow IIFYM tell themselves “I only need 100g of protein so I can fill the rest with skittles and donuts” and that all carb sources are going to have an equivalent affect on body composition (like eating high fructose corn syrup all day will yield the same results as eating starches)
although I will eat anything that fits into macros, still won’t eat garbage and pretend it is somehow equivalent
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
I had been off shakes for a year, just doing food, but recently had to add back.
Sometimes you have to listen to your body. I had sleep issues cause I was dreaming of food and waking up searching for carbs and protein [/quote]
Derek, when you say “listen to your body” was there anything else beside the sleep/hunger thing? Any sign that you felt particularly protein deficient?
[quote]setto222 wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
I had been off shakes for a year, just doing food, but recently had to add back.
Sometimes you have to listen to your body. I had sleep issues cause I was dreaming of food and waking up searching for carbs and protein [/quote]
Derek, when you say “listen to your body” was there anything else beside the sleep/hunger thing? Any sign that you felt particularly protein deficient? [/quote]
Just a note…I have gotten flack before because I use “listen to your body”.
This is common in medicine…because people with a significant health background in biology know there are no constants. There are too many variables for someone to literally think of the human body like a calculator…so listening to your body is a term that means, stop thinking you can plan this shit out ahead of time. You see what your biology does and you respond the best way possible.
THAT is real science.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]setto222 wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
I had been off shakes for a year, just doing food, but recently had to add back.
Sometimes you have to listen to your body. I had sleep issues cause I was dreaming of food and waking up searching for carbs and protein [/quote]
Derek, when you say “listen to your body” was there anything else beside the sleep/hunger thing? Any sign that you felt particularly protein deficient? [/quote]
Just a note…I have gotten flack before because I use “listen to your body”.
This is common in medicine…because people with a significant health background in biology know there are no constants. There are too many variables for someone to literally think of the human body like a calculator…so listening to your body is a term that means, stop thinking you can plan this shit out ahead of time. You see what your biology does and you respond the best way possible.
THAT is real science.[/quote]
I’m just wondering what he felt. I often find myself homeostatically challenged (lol) and it would be great to hear someone in the medical prof. describe his journey in a scientific manner.
I agree and I think the best way to eat (and train) is listening to your body. Life isn’t a vacuum and I know for a fact that my physiological condition today ins’t the same as it was yesterday so I tend to act accordingly.