Let's Talk Game w/ Women

Off Topic
121

“Game”? I never had it. When I tried to be something I wasn’t, It made me uncomfortable as hell, so it stopped pretty fast.

Also, for the record, I rarely made getting laid a priority. All I cared about was having fun, no matter where I was and who I was with, period.

What I did have:

  1. I genuinely like women. I like listening to what they have to say, as you can find out just as much about them, by what they DON’T say.

  2. I’m sincere. I believe in meaning what you say, and saying what you mean. Man or woman, i’m not going to kiss your ass or bullshit you.

  3. You’re “friend zoned” from the start. If we hit it off, then we’ll decide where it goes from there.

  4. I just like having fun. I’m easily amused, so i’m going to have a good time either way.

For an average guy in almost every way… i’ve done ok with just this.

I’ve seen what many women have gone through when it comes to men, and I can understand why they “be crazy”.

122

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Im curious how many guys on T-Nation got Game when it comes to women? Were you a natural or did you read up on it and learn it through going out alot and getting better?

And how many of you got no game and just sort of fell into your relationship or whatever you have at the moment?

[/quote]

I’m not a man but my husband is. When we first met, he tried to impress me with all kinds of game ie “being busy” when he really wasn’t, trying to get me to chase him, acting like he wasn’t too interested in me even though I knew that he was. It was annoying on a whole new level. Now, I knew what he was like with other people and that deep down he was a super funny and sincere guy that had deep respect for a good woman so I gave it a little longer. He eventually dropped the act and showed me the man that I fell in love with. Me, I don’t like game at all; it is not appealing to me and I would run for the hills if I thought someone was playing me. Sincerity, the ability to make me laugh and genuinely caring about my happiness and well-being are among the top things that I would look for over a sweet talker. I think I’d say that we fell into our relationship more than anything.[/quote]

So…

It worked?

[/quote]

Not the game part, no. I was contemplating not pursuing the relationship because of it. Not that I wasn’t interested but because I found it way too confusing that someone pretends to keep you at distance even though it’s blatantly obvious that they don’t want to. It was only after he completely stopped all of that that the relationship went anywhere.

I know the way that you think, Orion. Who knows, for some women, maybe you’re right? For me, I like straight forward and all cards on the table. I don’t have any inclination to deal with people that are manipulative in any way, shape or form. I’m not bitter either. I just have more respect for myself and my time than to try to decipher relationship jigsaw puzzles. When I have to guess, that’s too much unnecessary work.
[/quote]

First, I dont do that no contact shtick unless she starts that nonsense.

Second, what I would do, you would not even notice.

Third, yeah, you became an item “in spite” of it.

So, at least, it did not hurt.

BUT, had he given in to his natural inclinations, like, calling three times a day, you would not be together right now.

So, in my mind, even badly executed game landed him you.

He did not hit the sweet spot, but he managed to not hit the desperate loser spot by overdoing it.

Success, I guess?

And no, you do not know the way I think.

You would like to think you do, thats all. [/quote]

If anyone called me three times a day, I’m pretty sure I’d tell them to lose my number. Having said that, I don’t know if we’d be together or not if things happened differently but I’d like to think so. There is no way to ever know the answer to that. I’m claiming that I find game annoying and I prefer genuine confidence. I never thought he was a loser, never. As I said before, I already knew how he was and noticed that he wasn’t being that way with me. When it was important, things got real and it’s a happy ending. I just think it would be a real shame to see a truly wonderful relationship NOT happen because someone felt the need to play games with someone they really liked.

I don’t deny that games do work with many women/females though. My son is 16 and naturally has “game” with the girls at his school and they flock to him. I shake my head and wonder how they could be so naive because I know that in a week they will be crying as he has no real interest in a “steady” girlfriend.

Orion, I don’t “know” you but I’ve read enough of your posts to understand your basic ideas about women, relationships, politics, etc. If you are truthful in your posts then I would say I have a good understanding. If you think that I don’t, perhaps you should tell me what you do think.[/quote]

Here is the thing, if you have read my posts you would know that “pissing a woman off” is preferable to being a clingy needy bitch.

It was in there, somewhere, between the lines I guess?

The thing is, what women dont get is that most of these guys are not really that needy.

They are focused and enthusiastic, but your internal programming will inevitable process this as neediness —> low on the totem pole ----> not worthy of sex.

Thats ok, but in that case calling you too often out of a wide eyed innocence would have been a deal breaker, not calling you, even if you know the reason why and you find it annoying, does not shut your libido down.

He erred on the asshole side, mildly so, and he got rewarded.

There is no cognitive dissonance for me, work through yours.

Lesson: When in doubt, go asshole. [/quote]

You think that but that doesn’t necessarily make it true. I don’t think that either of those things is a good way to be.

I agree with you on the men being needy part, imagine that? That’s what I didn’t like about the game thing. He had PLENTY to offer and, IMO, didn’t need to resort to any kind of game. What I find most attractive is a man who is so confident that he doesn’t need to assure me of how awesome he is.

Okay, the phoning too often point, I agree. We’re on a roll tonight, aren’t we? lol Anyways, yes, that would most likely have been a deal breaker with anyone that did that as it screams desperation and downright crazy. You have to remember though that if you ignore a girl too much that has equally as much to offer, maybe someone else might swoop in and grab her attention.

My husband reads these forums too so I just wanted to say that he is not nor has he ever been an asshole. He’s the best father/husband ever and he knows that I hate game as we still laugh about it today. He swears that it worked, I swear that it didn’t. lol What can you do?

[/quote]

I said “mildly on the assholish side”.

Dont discuss this with me, discuss this with him.

Ask him how often he would have liked to call you and compare that to what you just wrote.

Then, ask yourself whether his game was not strong like lion and trumped yours.

There would be no shame in it… :-)…

123

I know a guy who, by the way he talks HATES his wife. Does nothing but complain about her and makes her sound like a miserable bitch who makes his life hell. Yet he is pretty quick to recommend some PUA book explaining how well it worked because that’s how he got his wife…and I LOL everytime, cause you know, he lived happily ever after :smiley:

124

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Im curious how many guys on T-Nation got Game when it comes to women? Were you a natural or did you read up on it and learn it through going out alot and getting better?

And how many of you got no game and just sort of fell into your relationship or whatever you have at the moment?

[/quote]

I’m not a man but my husband is. When we first met, he tried to impress me with all kinds of game ie “being busy” when he really wasn’t, trying to get me to chase him, acting like he wasn’t too interested in me even though I knew that he was. It was annoying on a whole new level. Now, I knew what he was like with other people and that deep down he was a super funny and sincere guy that had deep respect for a good woman so I gave it a little longer. He eventually dropped the act and showed me the man that I fell in love with. Me, I don’t like game at all; it is not appealing to me and I would run for the hills if I thought someone was playing me. Sincerity, the ability to make me laugh and genuinely caring about my happiness and well-being are among the top things that I would look for over a sweet talker. I think I’d say that we fell into our relationship more than anything.[/quote]

So…

It worked?

[/quote]

Not the game part, no. I was contemplating not pursuing the relationship because of it. Not that I wasn’t interested but because I found it way too confusing that someone pretends to keep you at distance even though it’s blatantly obvious that they don’t want to. It was only after he completely stopped all of that that the relationship went anywhere.

I know the way that you think, Orion. Who knows, for some women, maybe you’re right? For me, I like straight forward and all cards on the table. I don’t have any inclination to deal with people that are manipulative in any way, shape or form. I’m not bitter either. I just have more respect for myself and my time than to try to decipher relationship jigsaw puzzles. When I have to guess, that’s too much unnecessary work.
[/quote]

First, I dont do that no contact shtick unless she starts that nonsense.

Second, what I would do, you would not even notice.

Third, yeah, you became an item “in spite” of it.

So, at least, it did not hurt.

BUT, had he given in to his natural inclinations, like, calling three times a day, you would not be together right now.

So, in my mind, even badly executed game landed him you.

He did not hit the sweet spot, but he managed to not hit the desperate loser spot by overdoing it.

Success, I guess?

And no, you do not know the way I think.

You would like to think you do, thats all. [/quote]

Oh you sillies, teehee. You think you have some control over us girlie things. :slight_smile: We’ve already decided if it’s a yes or a no before you’ve even opened your pretty mouth. The only thing you can do is fuck up a yes and make it a no.
[/quote]

I agree.

The point is to make it a yes if that is in the cards.

Men who claim that they can have any woman are idiots.

Alas, your initial reaction is not independent from his previous preparations either.

Also, this whole “the woman chooses” is overrated.

If a man has enough option he necessarily has to say no to most of them, which leaves your “power to choose” more or less meaningless.

[/quote]

There you go again thinking you have options =D

Keep on with your analysis…that’ll change everything.
[/quote]

No.

Acting on it does.

Do you really, seriously believe, that a snippy remark on a website can drown out the the moans and sighs burned in my soul?

No, you dont.

This was a shittest, but a nice one.

Kudos.

[/quote]

How was that snippy, pflaumenkuchen?

125

[quote]debraD wrote:
I know a guy who, by the way he talks HATES his wife. Does nothing but complain about her and makes her sound like a miserable bitch who makes his life hell. Yet he is pretty quick to recommend some PUA book explaining how well it worked because that’s how he got his wife…and I LOL everytime, cause you know, he lived happily ever after :smiley:
[/quote]

Look at the “The Harpye I married wont let me tug my own dick, in my own house, on my own computer, who the fuck is paying all the bills !?!” thread and you will find that keeping a woman is different from getting her.

There is a link.

I know, men writing books about that stuff, while women resort to bitching, nagging and withholding of sex makes us look bad, but we can only work with what we have, like reason, basuc decency, stuff like.

126

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I know a guy who, by the way he talks HATES his wife. Does nothing but complain about her and makes her sound like a miserable bitch who makes his life hell. Yet he is pretty quick to recommend some PUA book explaining how well it worked because that’s how he got his wife…and I LOL everytime, cause you know, he lived happily ever after :smiley:
[/quote]

Look at the “The Harpye I married wont let me tug my own dick, in my own house, on my own computer, who the fuck is paying all the bills !?!” thread and you will find that keeping a woman is different from getting her.

There is a link.

I know, men writing books about that stuff, while women resort to bitching, nagging and withholding of sex makes us look bad, but we can only work with what we have, like reason, basuc decency, stuff like.

[/quote]

OR! The ridiculous tactics can attract some women, but women you would have no trouble bagging to begin with and you should probably run from rather than declaring dominance and victory.

127

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Im curious how many guys on T-Nation got Game when it comes to women? Were you a natural or did you read up on it and learn it through going out alot and getting better?

And how many of you got no game and just sort of fell into your relationship or whatever you have at the moment?

[/quote]

I’m not a man but my husband is. When we first met, he tried to impress me with all kinds of game ie “being busy” when he really wasn’t, trying to get me to chase him, acting like he wasn’t too interested in me even though I knew that he was. It was annoying on a whole new level. Now, I knew what he was like with other people and that deep down he was a super funny and sincere guy that had deep respect for a good woman so I gave it a little longer. He eventually dropped the act and showed me the man that I fell in love with. Me, I don’t like game at all; it is not appealing to me and I would run for the hills if I thought someone was playing me. Sincerity, the ability to make me laugh and genuinely caring about my happiness and well-being are among the top things that I would look for over a sweet talker. I think I’d say that we fell into our relationship more than anything.[/quote]

So…

It worked?

[/quote]

Not the game part, no. I was contemplating not pursuing the relationship because of it. Not that I wasn’t interested but because I found it way too confusing that someone pretends to keep you at distance even though it’s blatantly obvious that they don’t want to. It was only after he completely stopped all of that that the relationship went anywhere.

I know the way that you think, Orion. Who knows, for some women, maybe you’re right? For me, I like straight forward and all cards on the table. I don’t have any inclination to deal with people that are manipulative in any way, shape or form. I’m not bitter either. I just have more respect for myself and my time than to try to decipher relationship jigsaw puzzles. When I have to guess, that’s too much unnecessary work.
[/quote]

First, I dont do that no contact shtick unless she starts that nonsense.

Second, what I would do, you would not even notice.

Third, yeah, you became an item “in spite” of it.

So, at least, it did not hurt.

BUT, had he given in to his natural inclinations, like, calling three times a day, you would not be together right now.

So, in my mind, even badly executed game landed him you.

He did not hit the sweet spot, but he managed to not hit the desperate loser spot by overdoing it.

Success, I guess?

And no, you do not know the way I think.

You would like to think you do, thats all. [/quote]

Oh you sillies, teehee. You think you have some control over us girlie things. :slight_smile: We’ve already decided if it’s a yes or a no before you’ve even opened your pretty mouth. The only thing you can do is fuck up a yes and make it a no.
[/quote]

I agree.

The point is to make it a yes if that is in the cards.

Men who claim that they can have any woman are idiots.

Alas, your initial reaction is not independent from his previous preparations either.

Also, this whole “the woman chooses” is overrated.

If a man has enough option he necessarily has to say no to most of them, which leaves your “power to choose” more or less meaningless.

[/quote]

There you go again thinking you have options =D

Keep on with your analysis…that’ll change everything.
[/quote]

No.

Acting on it does.

Do you really, seriously believe, that a snippy remark on a website can drown out the the moans and sighs burned in my soul?

No, you dont.

This was a shittest, but a nice one.

Kudos.

[/quote]

How was that snippy, pflaumenkuchen?[/quote]

It was more snipy maple pie, I prefer to be called Hans, Fritz or Schnitzel.

<---- Heavily conditioned by PWI

128

<taps foot, still waiting>

129

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I know a guy who, by the way he talks HATES his wife. Does nothing but complain about her and makes her sound like a miserable bitch who makes his life hell. Yet he is pretty quick to recommend some PUA book explaining how well it worked because that’s how he got his wife…and I LOL everytime, cause you know, he lived happily ever after :smiley:
[/quote]

Look at the “The Harpye I married wont let me tug my own dick, in my own house, on my own computer, who the fuck is paying all the bills !?!” thread and you will find that keeping a woman is different from getting her.

There is a link.

I know, men writing books about that stuff, while women resort to bitching, nagging and withholding of sex makes us look bad, but we can only work with what we have, like reason, basuc decency, stuff like.

[/quote]

OR! The ridiculous tactics can attract some women, but women you would have no trouble bagging to begin with and you should probably run from rather than declaring dominance and victory.
[/quote]

There are NO RIDCULOUS TACTICS.

Do you really believe I run around in a feder boa and black fingernails and 500 canned openers?

You understand how women work, every last one of them and then you hit their triggers hard.

You know that guys like tits and ass, well you have your weaknesses to.

They are bit harder to hit, but then, we can handle this shit.

130

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
<taps foot, still waiting>[/quote]

Not married, but you guys do not make me regret that.

131

I brought this up in another thread tonight.

I honestly believe that genuine game in any area of life is just the happy byproduct of having reached a certain level of self actualization where you honestly know who you are and what you’re about and feel relatively secure in that. I’m not meaning to be trite or to suggest people don’t consciously try to develop life, relationship and interpersonal skills that don’t come naturally to them and simply be “themselves” however lame and ineffective that may be.

I just believe there’s a place of detachment (for lack of a better word) where you’re simply not overly emotionally invested in what other people do or think or what happens around you. This isn’t an over the top, in your face thing. You need people to like and approve of you if you hope to succeed and be happy. There’s just a place where your emotional well being is not tied up in whether this or that individual approves of (or has sex with) you. You take responsibility for yourself and your physical and emotional survival. You evaluate people (including yourself) and situations dispassionately according to your own values and instincts. You are aware of what you bring to the table, both strengths and weaknesses, and you are always actively looking to find ways to improve and bring more. Basically you own all your shit and leave others to own their’s or not.

You simply cannot fake this. You cannot read a book or go to a seminar and then just decide to do it. It takes time and discipline. A person who has had some success with this process will naturally begin to exhibit certain desirable traits and behaviours, some of which tend to be associated with game. They will be good under stress and at ease in unfamiliar or challenging situations. They will seem confident and attractive. They will be their own breed of cat, whatever that may be. These behaviours are, as I said, just a byproduct of this person’s internal way of being. If you find one of these people and try to mimic their traits and behaviours in some sort of a formulaic, paint by numbers system, you MAY become somewhat proficient with diligent practice and begin to reap some of the external rewards (i.e. getting laid).

However I think you will more likely come across as stilted and wooden and your game will likely fall apart when you’re under real stress. Worse, even if you do learn to act like you have game you will miss out on the real benefit of being a genuinely happy, effective internally motivated human being who isn’t jerked this way and that by every current of events or emotions that happen to swirl around them from moment to moment. Women will tend to find this guy attractive because he has real value. If you try to do this so women will be more attracted to you, you have completely missed the point.

TL:DR - Inner peace first, game will follow on it’s own.

132

But people who got lucky early grow into naturals.

So, getting laid helps you get to that state, whereas eternal virgins despair.

Both are in a self reinforcing feedback loop, so this is all very chicken egg kind of stuff.

If you are in the wrong loop you either break through by sheer force of will or you stay where you are.

133

I want to share my bad experiences due to language and culture barriers regarding “gameness”. I am from Mexico and I have always been lucky with the girls I’m not even sure what of all the crap I say is what hits the spot when I’m trying to connect with a girl.

Anyways, until I was 18 and finally broke up with a girlfriend that pretty much manipulated my life I started going out a little more and realized that getting girls wasn’t so hard after all. I spent about a year dating random women and having sex (the cold bitch I had for a girlfriend didn’t let me have sex with her but I was too dumb to end the relationship and it lasted for too long) thus making my confidence go as high as it could possibly be.

Then, I decided to come and study here as a Visa Student and started knowing people from different parts of the world, turns out, people here have very different approaches to this stuff and I’m pretty much dead on the water right now. I have no idea how to talk to women here and even though I am able to write in English I am not able to talk very fluently and have become really shy. I have to wait for long weekends and short semester breaks to be able to go to Mexico every now and then and have sex so it has been a little frustrating for me. Just wanted to share something with you guys!

134

Lots of activity here tonight. And I don’t even really see any fundamental disagreements.

I’m just going to throw this out there. Makeup and fashion are viewed as a “normal” part of being a female (in western society at least). But that’s game too. For the most part, men are visual, women are verbal.

Why is it ok for a woman to intentionally alter the way she presents herself visually, but not ok for a man to intentionally alter the way he presents himself verbally?

I would say most women have been doing it so long, it’s so natural they don’t even notice.

The reason women even notice men’s behavior and call it ‘game’ is when they’re incredibly bad at it. Within certain limits, nobody even notices. Everyone notices the high school girl who first starts out and goes over the top. Everyone notices the guys who just learn how to talk to a woman, and completely screw it up.

But when you’re good at it, nobody calls you out on it. Nobody notices it. That concealer and foundation to make you look younger? The mascara to draw attention to your eyes? That necklace and “tasteful” V to the front of your dress to draw attention to your bustline? It’s the exact same thing.

135

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Lots of activity here tonight. And I don’t even really see any fundamental disagreements.

I’m just going to throw this out there. Makeup and fashion are viewed as a “normal” part of being a female (in western society at least). But that’s game too. For the most part, men are visual, women are verbal.

Why is it ok for a woman to intentionally alter the way she presents herself visually, but not ok for a man to intentionally alter the way he presents himself verbally?

I would say most women have been doing it so long, it’s so natural they don’t even notice.

The reason women even notice men’s behavior and call it ‘game’ is when they’re incredibly bad at it. Within certain limits, nobody even notices. Everyone notices the high school girl who first starts out and goes over the top. Everyone notices the guys who just learn how to talk to a woman, and completely screw it up.

But when you’re good at it, nobody calls you out on it. Nobody notices it. That concealer and foundation to make you look younger? The mascara to draw attention to your eyes? That necklace and “tasteful” V to the front of your dress to draw attention to your bustline? It’s the exact same thing.[/quote]
Men also use gel, cologne, and wear nice clothes…

136

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Lots of activity here tonight. And I don’t even really see any fundamental disagreements.

I’m just going to throw this out there. Makeup and fashion are viewed as a “normal” part of being a female (in western society at least). But that’s game too. For the most part, men are visual, women are verbal.

Why is it ok for a woman to intentionally alter the way she presents herself visually, but not ok for a man to intentionally alter the way he presents himself verbally?

I would say most women have been doing it so long, it’s so natural they don’t even notice.

The reason women even notice men’s behavior and call it ‘game’ is when they’re incredibly bad at it. Within certain limits, nobody even notices. Everyone notices the high school girl who first starts out and goes over the top. Everyone notices the guys who just learn how to talk to a woman, and completely screw it up.

But when you’re good at it, nobody calls you out on it. Nobody notices it. That concealer and foundation to make you look younger? The mascara to draw attention to your eyes? That necklace and “tasteful” V to the front of your dress to draw attention to your bustline? It’s the exact same thing.[/quote]
Men also use gel, cologne, and wear nice clothes…[/quote]

True… unfortunately, most guys just don’t really learn how to use them to their advantage until long after women are already masters of the same.

And for that matter, I swear more guys need to learn a thing or two about clothing. Hell, a couple good pairs of shoes and a jacket/coat that fits you right, and you can pretty much screw up the rest.

137

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
<taps foot, still waiting>[/quote]

Not married, but you guys do not make me regret that.

[/quote]
Okay why?
I have a loving wife, who doubles my income and fulfills me in every way? So I dont get new ass, I have the ass I want at any point I want so if anything you should be envious.

Plus I dont have to play the stupid games or go to bed beating off to porn.

138

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
Oh you sillies, teehee. You think you have some control over us girlie things. :slight_smile: We’ve already decided if it’s a yes or a no before you’ve even opened your pretty mouth. The only thing you can do is fuck up a yes and make it a no.
[/quote]

Don’t go telling him all of our secrets, debraD. lol

I actually think there is more truth to this than not. From what I’ve seen in my lifetime, it’s more the woman that accepts or rejects the relationship. This is particularly true the more attractive the woman is.[/quote]

So if the woman is ultimately the gatekeeper, shouldn’t the man do all he can to get past the gates?

If she’s actually looking for anything of substance, most guys will be filtered out pretty quickly, even the ones with ‘game’. But if a guy’s already got all the fundamentals down pat, is there anything wrong with a little intentional ‘game’ to get past some of her subconscious, biological criteria?

I can’t remember how many times I’ve heard “he was perfect for me, we had the same interests, we both… etc. etc., but I just wasn’t attracted to him”.

It’s not even about physical attraction, it’s that “je ne sais quoi” that makes you want him.

(Granted, some women just don’t have filters for things like “stable lifestyle”, “not abusive”, “doesn’t cheat”, etc.)

139

You know its funny, I would think T-Nation of all places would have guys professing about there skills in The Game, however most it looks like do not have it.

Is T-Nation full of Good Looking Tall White AFC’s? Lol.

140

The stuff Orion and Angry Chicken write is mind-blowing. Where the hell do you read up on this stuff, or do you just learn it as you go? Please point me in the right direction.