Let's Talk Game w/ Women

Off Topic
541

In contrast, in my current relationship that I’ve been in for the past two years, I’ve been very firm on my stance in even the smallest of issues, and it’s the healthiest and happiest relationship I’ve ever been in. Early on, she started that jealousy of female friends stuff and I put my foot down told her that I don’t give her shit about any guy friends she may have bc I don’t care and I’m not insecure about it, so likewise I don’t want to hear any guilt trips about female friends I have.

If she doesn’t trust me then she shouldn’t date me, and vice versa. She wasn’t too happy in the moment of the argument, but came back a day later and told me she realized she was being irrational and insecure and apologized. There have been other little instances like that that ended similarly. Now, do you think if I gave in when she started complaining about female friends and told her I wouldn’t talk to them anymore that she would have ever came back and told me never mind, it’s not a problem, I was just being insecure? No, I would just have to continue to have no contact with lifelong female friends for the rest of my relationship. It’s all a matter of what you will and won’t accept, but you have to be serious about it, they will be able to tell if you’re bluffing.

542

[quote]Lanfair wrote:
In contrast, in my current relationship that I’ve been in for the past two years, I’ve been very firm on my stance in even the smallest of issues, and it’s the healthiest and happiest relationship I’ve ever been in. Early on, she started that jealousy of female friends stuff and I put my foot down told her that I don’t give her shit about any guy friends she may have bc I don’t care and I’m not insecure about it, so likewise I don’t want to hear any guilt trips about female friends I have.

If she doesn’t trust me then she shouldn’t date me, and vice versa. She wasn’t too happy in the moment of the argument, but came back a day later and told me she realized she was being irrational and insecure and apologized. There have been other little instances like that that ended similarly. Now, do you think if I gave in when she started complaining about female friends and told her I wouldn’t talk to them anymore that she would have ever came back and told me never mind, it’s not a problem, I was just being insecure? No, I would just have to continue to have no contact with lifelong female friends for the rest of my relationship. It’s all a matter of what you will and won’t accept, but you have to be serious about it, they will be able to tell if you’re bluffing.[/quote]

543

I think that whole “mastery” stuff is misunderstood.

First of all, most men master shit.

That being out of the way, its like dancing.

No, not spastically shaking it to contemporary bongo drums, ballroom dancing.

One must lead, the other one must follow.

But, if she does not want to be lead, you are going nowhere.

If both try to lead, the same is true.

If noone leads, you are not dancing, you are standing.

But, if the man leads, and the woman can indicate where she wants to be lead to and every now and then he picks that up ----> magic.

Most people when they hear " social dominance" ohhhhh, imagine some Mad Max scenario where a tatted out dude with a chain saw dominates his bitches, yesh…

WTF!?!

Its not like that.

Unless she is crazy, then you need to go to the pet shop.

544

And you need to go to the pet shop too, because think what a collar actually says.

The people who get this diamnond studded pseudo S&M gear, what fucked up mixed message does that really send?

Its a shame Lew no longer posts because he was a pimp.

Most likely still is.

545

[quote]Lanfair wrote:
I wouldn’t describe it as mastering control of the woman, more of mastering your own position in not being a doormat or subject to the whims and petty tests that women will try to put you through, often unconsciously. It’s more important to be firm in that area in the beginning bc it sets a precedent for the rest of the relationship. For example, unjustified jealousy of any female friends and acquaintances you have. If you acquiesce to that instead of putting your foot down, you just set a precedent for the rest of your relationship.

To be specific, in regards to my own personal experience I shared about my relationship with my ex, I should have very firmly put my foot down when she tried to cancel plans on me at the last minute and other stunts she pulled. Instead of talking her into not canceling, I should have told her my time is too important to waste and if she can’t keep her commitments, I’ll find someone else who can. And then refused to go out with her that night even if she tried to change her mind. But, although I did manage to do that the second go round when I began dating her again a few months later, I was never really able to hold those positions without constantly having to reassert myself and getting into huge fights, mainly bc her behavior was erratic and impulsive beyond her own control.[/quote]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. That comes off a little differently and seems perfectly reasonable to me. I absolutely agree that a level of self possession is essential in relationships and life in general. I also agree that women’s actions will often test this. I don’t know if this is conscious, unconscious or purely incidental, but if you lay down very often then yep, you will be a doormat. She will be unable to respect you and it’s all downhill from there. In fact she will be almost compelled to treat you like crap until the relationship implodes. Having dated some more-unstable-than-usual girls I can appreciate how this process becomes so much more labour intensive when you add in that element. Actually, everything becomes more labour intensive when dating more-unstable-than-usual women.

Myself, I prefer to 1.)avoid more-unstable-than-usual women and 2.)deflect/redirect this stuff until it fizzles into nothing as opposed to confronting it directly with a “put my foot down” type approach (although sometimes the direct approach is preferable/necessary).

546

[quote]orion wrote:
I think that whole “mastery” stuff is misunderstood.

First of all, most men master shit.

That being out of the way, its like dancing.

No, not spastically shaking it to contemporary bongo drums, ballroom dancing.

One must lead, the other one must follow.

But, if she does not want to be lead, you are going nowhere.

If both try to lead, the same is true.

If noone leads, you are not dancing, you are standing.

But, if the man leads, and the woman can indicate where she wants to be lead to and every now and then he picks that up ----> magic.

Most people when they hear " social dominance" ohhhhh, imagine some Mad Max scenario where a tatted out dude with a chain saw dominates his bitches, yesh…

WTF!?!

Its not like that.

Unless she is crazy, then you need to go to the pet shop.[/quote]

Hmm. That’s pretty good actually. Never consciously thought of it in exactly those terms, but that’s about right, in my experience at least.

547

Oh… and I thought this mastery stuff involved a club, dragging by the hair, and a cave :frowning:

548

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
Anyhow. I kid you not, THE DAY my mindset shifted and I decided I wanted an LTR I never saw her again.
At the time it was quite demoralizing, but its classic stuff.
[/quote]
Happens all the time.
Not long ago, a friend of mine feels ready to settle down and marry his lass. A perpetual bachelor, suddently talking about buying a house and procreating.
The pessimist in me couldn’t help but think: “that’s her cue to take strange dick up the ass asap”.
Which was exactly what happened.

Some guys here sneer and call it immature.
I call them intellectually dishonest. It’s exactly like with ‘evolution & monotheism’ in PWI, you may not like it but at least try to implement it into your cosmology, it’s there to stay.

O. is half-right in stating that women, being the more “valueable” gender can simply get away with more crazyness without really needing a shrink.
The other half is that modern culture came so fast, genes are still stuck in caveman mode.
Today, a mildly bipolar gal can wreak absolute havoc, thanks to credit cards, lawyers, handguns, cars and other modern toys. Insanity? Psychosis?
10000 years ago, what would’ve been the craziest she could’ve pulled off?
Stealing your mammoth-hides? Crying dire-wolf?

So while men found equivalents to hunting and tinkering to keep busy, most women still have no modern answer to what now seems like utterly erratic behaviour.
That’s, in a nutshell, why under a fair number of ancient and medieval schools of thought, the fair gender was found to be more lusty and prone to sin or fall under demonic influence, in spite of men being the actual killers and warmongers.
Our forfathers had game too, and they were as sharp as us when it came to cracking the pussy-code.
But alas, without perspective, 2000 years ago, “original sin” might be the hottest science to explain why women be crazy.

549

[quote]Lanfair wrote:
The reason I told my friend the best thing to do is run when he comes across a girl exhibiting the patterns and traits of BPD is because, if you research the disorder, it’s one of the most difficult for shrinks to treat. They usually don’t see much progress in patients, and the very impulsive, hot/cold nature leads patients to usually stop treatment suddenly, esp when it starts to get to uncomfortable truths.

This is a problem with any serious personality disorders, getting patients to stay on their meds and follow through with treatments when they are unable to even objectively realize there is something wrong with them. In the case of my ex, she was on a couple fairly heavy psych meds (which is a def RED FLAG, but I’m more lenient than I should be on that one since I’ve been on antidepressants since my teens), and every once in a while would acknowledge after a huge fight over nothing that maybe she should get back into therapy and that it did help when she was going, but she suddenly stopped and had no good reason as to why.

In spite of these random moments of clarity, she never did go back to therapy or change any of her behavior, and from what I can tell, over two years later, she’s still exactly the same and driving insane any poor sap dumb enough to think he can master her.

Is it possible to gain control over a girl with those issues? Sure, anything is possible. I even did it myself for a while, but it was a constant struggle, moreso than with regular girls, and honestly, not worth it. Why take on such an exceptionally difficult task when there are millions of other attractive women out there without all the baggage?[/quote]

The difference between psychosis and neurosis is being able to admit there is an issue. It’s really not surprising a person with BPD would have a difficult time coming to grips with having it.

The general consensus here is that the majority of these women manipulate without any awareness.

So, is it really surprising that they have a hard time admitting to it?

550

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
I’ve seen that a sexy women who’s confidence stems from that is a manipulator (more than once). And I don’t believe most of these women do it purposely even if they are conscious of their ability. I wish I could think of a physically attractive women who knows she has options, but isn’t a manipulator. However, I can’t. [/quote]

Like Lorez mentioned, this need not be a bad. more just matter-of-fact.

Imagine if u will, growing up female and often attracting attention. Or always, in some cases.

Its a different world they’re living in, and they’re getting constant, daily reminders of that.

[/quote]

Well it hasn’t exactly gone unnoticed that women are significantly different then men.

I mean we are here talking about it aren’t we? lol

I’m not saying there’s absolutely justification in these women’s actions but is it annoying? Yes.

551

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
I’ve seen that a sexy women who’s confidence stems from that is a manipulator (more than once). And I don’t believe most of these women do it purposely even if they are conscious of their ability. I wish I could think of a physically attractive women who knows she has options, but isn’t a manipulator. However, I can’t.[/quote]

I’ve seen the same, for the most part.

I’ve also seen a few exceptions. These are the rare physically attractive girl that was in a LTR, is now out, and looking for another one. She doesn’t realize, yet, how much power she has.

I guess in a very real sense, “absolute power corrupts absolutely” is pretty applicable here.

I tend to see this in younger girls though; give them a few years of bad relationships (I use that term loosely), and the ones who survive that with their self-worth intact tend to be both attractive and genuinely ready for LTRs.[/quote]

They exist, but they’re far from a dime a dozen.

552

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

Happens all the time.
Not long ago, a friend of mine feels ready to settle down and marry his lass. A perpetual bachelor, suddently talking about buying a house and procreating.
The pessimist in me couldn’t help but think: “that’s her cue to take strange dick up the ass asap”.
Which was exactly what happened.
[/quote]

I’ve seen a similar thing happen, and it’s not fun to watch.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

But alas, without perspective, 2000 years ago, “original sin” might be the hottest science to explain why women be crazy.
[/quote]

Eve eats the apple => psychopath women => men are instead because Adam didn’t have his shit together

lol

553

[quote][Schwarzfahrer wrote:

O. is half-right in stating that women, being the more “valueable” gender can simply get away with more crazyness without really needing a shrink.
The other half is that modern culture came so fast, genes are still stuck in caveman mode.
Today, a mildly bipolar gal can wreak absolute havoc, thanks to credit cards, lawyers, handguns, cars and other modern toys. Insanity? Psychosis?
10000 years ago, what would’ve been the craziest she could’ve pulled off?
Stealing your mammoth-hides? Crying dire-wolf?

[/quote]

That is not all that I am saying.

A woman has maybe, if we take it all, from 13 to 50 to get pregnant.

That is 37 years x 12 months= 444 opportunities to get pregnant.

Thats a lifetime.

A man produces 1500 new sperm per second.

That makes women the reproductive bottleneck and therefore the more valuable sex.

Since that leads to a lot of emotional dimorphism, f.e women are less risk seeking, you can bet that evolution has bred a healthy sense of entitlement and narcissism into the female of the species too.

This constant gimme, gimme, gimme is highly beneficial for succesful gene spreading if it actually works.

They dont think twice about it too, attractive women will leech resources from several guys simultaneously without wasting any thought about it.

That is not even gold digging, as long as it stays on a purely instinctive level.

554

Thus, what you call ‘emotional dimorphism’ can be seen as normal behaviour. And society let’s them get away with it.
And why not?

Here’s what I find interesting (don’t know if this is the right thread, so many game/feminism/masculism topics going around): feminists will deny, deny, deny:

“There’s NO difference!”, “You calling us crazy?!”, “If anything, women are more sane and rational!”

While at the same time, the “Zicke” [basically a positive “bitch” title] movement was the most powerful, openly feministic influx to society since the '68.
I’m still waiting for society to positivley connote “macho”.
But I won’t hold my breath.

555

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Thus, what you call ‘emotional dimorphism’ can be seen as normal behaviour. And society let’s them get away with it.
And why not?

Here’s what I find interesting (don’t know if this is the right thread, so many game/feminism/masculism topics going around): feminists will deny, deny, deny:

“There’s NO difference!”, “You calling us crazy?!”, “If anything, women are more sane and rational!”

While at the same time, the “Zicke” [basically a positive “bitch” title] movement was the most powerful, openly feministic influx to society since the '68.
I’m still waiting for society to positivley connote “macho”.
But I won’t hold my breath.[/quote]

Haha, in Japan it has positive connotations! I get called “macho” all the time, because of my frame and virility. I find it hilarious and flattering that that particular word is the one so often used to describe me.

556

Yeah, I read you guys have the opposite problem - a clear overabundance of “herbivores”.

Could you tell us a bit why you think Japan suffers from this, please?
Bonus question: Do japanese feminists bother to call for gender quota?

557

If you ever look at evolutionary psychology, everyday it’s showing gender differences are real and hardwired.

It’s gotten so obvious that prominent feminists have begun to attempt to discredit the field as a whole, partaking in science denialism at skeptic conferences of all places.

Funny how evolution is great for debunking Christianity but not so great in determining whether men and women are different by nature.

558

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Yeah, I read you guys have the opposite problem - a clear overabundance of “herbivores”.

Could you tell us a bit why you think Japan suffers from this, please?
Bonus question: Do japanese feminists bother to call for gender quota? [/quote]

Because lying not too deep below the surface is the exact same man that marched through Korea and China just a couple of generations ago, beheading the men and enslaving the women and children, flying his plane into an aircraft carrier, and slicing open his own belly, reaching in and tossing his entrails into the air in an ecstasy of death.

The modern Japanese male may look skinny and effeminate, but I’m less and less convinced that the dominant male has done anything but lie dormant in this time of relative peace.

That is nothing more than my opinion. Others may disagree with me.

As far as Japanese feminists, there are some changing ideas here, but there is not much of a concerted feminist movement. And Japanese businesses, for better or worse, are free to discriminate on pretty much any level they choose. As an employer, I am thrilled about this, while the softy in me still winces at how certain people are openly and shamelessly discriminated against.

559

[quote]therajraj wrote:
If you ever look at evolutionary psychology, everyday it’s showing gender differences are real and hardwired.

It’s gotten so obvious that prominent feminists have begun to attempt to discredit the field as a whole, partaking in science denialism at skeptic conferences of all places.

Funny how evolution is great for debunking Christianity but not so great in determining whether men and women are different by nature.[/quote]

It beggars belief that this idea is even entertained as anything other than a self-evident fact of nature.

560

[quote]Cortes wrote:
The modern Japanese male may look skinny and effeminate, but I’m less and less convinced that the dominant male has done anything but lie dormant in this time of relative peace.

That is nothing more than my opinion. Others may disagree with me. [/quote]

From what I’ve observed, I agree with you. There seems to be a very dangerous kind of aggression lurking beneath the surface, that doesn’t seem to show up on most people’s radar. Then, combined with certain cultural issues with respect to the individual’s role in the collective – not in the slavery sense, but in the “we’re actually more powerful if we work together” sense – and I think there’s some room for concern.

For that matter, it’s no mere accident that Japan has the influence it has across the world in the electronics and automotive sectors. (As far as industries most people are familiar with. There’s definitely more.)

Of course, that being said, I like the Japanese.