Let's Talk Game w/ Women

Off Topic
521

I just wanted to chime in and thank everyone who contributed to Lorez’s dilemma. Made me realize that the girl I’ve been trying to have LTR with, has borderline personality disorder. It explains A LOT for her actions.

Funny thing is that I already saw red flags when I met her, and I thought I could handle it by laying my foot down. But nope, like Lorez, I was a dumbass and got emotionally invested in her.

For some reason, I’m not giving up on her, and I will plan to tell her that she has BPD and hope to seek help.

If you don’t hear from me by Wednesday, call 911.

522

[quote]Nutso wrote:

For some reason, I’m not giving up on her, and I will plan to tell her that she has BPD and hope to seek help.
[/quote]

Nooooo.

What is wrong with you?

You go to the next pet shop and get a 10$ dog collar.

523

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Nutso wrote:

For some reason, I’m not giving up on her, and I will plan to tell her that she has BPD and hope to seek help.
[/quote]

Nooooo.

What is wrong with you?

You go to the next pet shop and get a 10$ dog collar.

[/quote]

Or pay just a little more for a shock collar.

524

Also, this whole BPD is blown out of proportion.

Bioplogcally speaking, women are the nmore valuahle sex.

A certain amount of entitlement and narcissism come with that.

They are not sick, they just are what they are.

525

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Nutso wrote:

For some reason, I’m not giving up on her, and I will plan to tell her that she has BPD and hope to seek help.
[/quote]

Nooooo.

What is wrong with you?

You go to the next pet shop and get a 10$ dog collar.

[/quote]

Or pay just a little more for a shock collar. [/quote]

I…

dont know…

Needz field testing.

526

[quote]orion wrote:
Also, this whole BPD is blown out of proportion.

Bioplogcally speaking, women are the nmore valuahle sex.

A certain amount of entitlement and narcissism come with that.

They are not sick, they just are what they are.[/quote]

Mmmm, care to elaborate more on this and the dog collar comment. Do you meant that I should keep her under control?

FWIW: When she pulled those shutdown/push/pull/impulsivity stuff, I stood on my own and called her out on it. She would acknowledge that and admit that I was right. She would say that she noticed this pattern, but doesn’t know why and yet she keeps doing it. I would end up getting mad/frustrated. Did I mess up? It’s really hard to be emotionally detached. I do understand where Lorez’s coming from. I’m just confused on what I’m supposed to do whereas if it was just someone else - I’d be like see you later. I just thought if I told her that she has BPD, she will finally know what’s the root of her problems and address it on her own through help.

Isn’t that a good thing?

527

[quote]Nutso wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Also, this whole BPD is blown out of proportion.

Bioplogcally speaking, women are the nmore valuahle sex.

A certain amount of entitlement and narcissism come with that.

They are not sick, they just are what they are.[/quote]

Mmmm, care to elaborate more on this and the dog collar comment. Do you meant that I should keep her under control?

FWIW: When she pulled those shutdown/push/pull/impulsivity stuff, I stood on my own and called her out on it. She would acknowledge that and admit that I was right. She would say that she noticed this pattern, but doesn’t know why and yet she keeps doing it. I would end up getting mad/frustrated. Did I mess up? It’s really hard to be emotionally detached. I do understand where Lorez’s coming from. I’m just confused on what I’m supposed to do whereas if it was just someone else - I’d be like see you later. I just thought if I told her that she has BPD, she will finally know what’s the root of her problems and address it on her own through help.

Isn’t that a good thing?[/quote]

Look, its not as if you can walk up to someone who really has a personality disorder and point it out to him and he will say "oh, alright, I guess I will change that then.

These are some of the hardest problems to treat because deep down those people will never acknowledge that they have a problem, they do not think fucked up thoughts, they are one goant fucked up thought, their very personality is arranged in an unhealthy way.

Second, you most likely do not have a BPD girl on your hands, you have a drama queen.

And guess what you are giving her when you are mulling over her behavior and try to point it out to her?

ATTENTION.

Why in the world would she stop?

528

[quote]orion wrote:
Look, its not as if you can walk up to someone who really has a personality disorder and point it out to him and he will say "oh, alright, I guess I will change that then.

These are some of the hardest problems to treat because deep down those people will never acknowledge that they have a problem, they do not think fucked up thoughts, they are one giant fucked up thought, their very personality is arranged in an unhealthy way.

Second, you most likely do not have a BPD girl on your hands, you have a drama queen.

And guess what you are giving her when you are mulling over her behavior and try to point it out to her?

ATTENTION.

Why in the world would she stop?
[/quote]

If this was 8 years ago when I first met her, I would have agreed with you on the drama queen part.

But I can tell you that she is not being a drama queen. She got out of a 3 years (2009) relationship where her ex basically stopped loving her. She was crushed, and decided to make a change for herself - achieving her goals for past 3 years. One of these goals was to change her ways with interacting people as she noticed that people would get mad at her for the things she was doing mostly related to communication. She got sick of that, and wants to make an effort to become a better person and communicate more effectively. She thought she was doing well until I came into the picture and basically told her that she hasn’t done shit.

“You woke up my eyes” - Her words.

When someone mentioned BPD in earlier comments in this thread, I looked it up online, and I can tell you that a lot symptoms fits her to a T. She has this huge fear of abandonment due to her past. I have brought this up during our conversations.

I do agree with you that it’s not like I can tell her that she has BPD and she’ll accept that and make a change right off the bat.

But at least it’s a start.

529

“She has this huge fear of abandonment due to her past”

I’d be wary about your close female friends, other than her I mean.

She could turn all nasty due to such fear.

530

[quote]Nutso wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Look, its not as if you can walk up to someone who really has a personality disorder and point it out to him and he will say "oh, alright, I guess I will change that then.

These are some of the hardest problems to treat because deep down those people will never acknowledge that they have a problem, they do not think fucked up thoughts, they are one giant fucked up thought, their very personality is arranged in an unhealthy way.

Second, you most likely do not have a BPD girl on your hands, you have a drama queen.

And guess what you are giving her when you are mulling over her behavior and try to point it out to her?

ATTENTION.

Why in the world would she stop?
[/quote]

If this was 8 years ago when I first met her, I would have agreed with you on the drama queen part.

But I can tell you that she is not being a drama queen. She got out of a 3 years (2009) relationship where her ex basically stopped loving her. She was crushed, and decided to make a change for herself - achieving her goals for past 3 years. One of these goals was to change her ways with interacting people as she noticed that people would get mad at her for the things she was doing mostly related to communication. She got sick of that, and wants to make an effort to become a better person and communicate more effectively. She thought she was doing well until I came into the picture and basically told her that she hasn’t done shit.

“You woke up my eyes” - Her words.

When someone mentioned BPD in earlier comments in this thread, I looked it up online, and I can tell you that a lot symptoms fits her to a T. She has this huge fear of abandonment due to her past. I have brought this up during our conversations.

I do agree with you that it’s not like I can tell her that she has BPD and she’ll accept that and make a change right off the bat.

But at least it’s a start.[/quote]

IMHO “diagnosing” someone with a personality disorder after having looked it up on the internet may not be a very good idea. However, if someone is exhibiting a certain pattern of behaviour, information about that pattern MAY be useful so you have a better idea what you can expect.

If she does have a personality disorder, getting involved with her expecting her to change or get better is a mistake. Actually, ever getting involved with someone expecting them to change significantly in a predictable or positive way is a mistake. It’s like getting involved with an addict and expecting them to stop using. She may change, but she very likely may not, and you will never get the years back.

If you are not OK with having an LTR with her at at least the level of screwed up that she currently is, you are kidding yourself. She no doubt has her reasons for being as damaged as she is, we all do. However, we all have to carry our own damage. We can’t carry anyone else’s nor can we expect anyone to carry ours. Whatever her reasons, she’s how she is and you’re either OK with that or you’re not.

531

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
“She has this huge fear of abandonment due to her past”

I’d be wary about your close female friends, other than her I mean.

She could turn all nasty due to such fear.[/quote]

Oh, you don’t have to worry about my close female friends as I only have two. Lol. And they are both married. I became friends with them through their husbands. We’re talking 12 years of friendship here.

I’m not the type to have normal friendships with girls. Always ends up in a mess due to one of us having feelings while the other doesn’t.

I already saw the nastiness and called her out on it. She DID acknowledged it, but she doesn’t understand WHY she did that.

532

[quote]batman730 wrote:
IMHO “diagnosing” someone with a personality disorder after having looked it up on the internet may not be a very good idea. However, if someone is exhibiting a certain pattern of behaviour, information about that pattern MAY be useful so you have a better idea what you can expect.

If she does have a personality disorder, getting involved with her expecting her to change or get better is a mistake. Actually, ever getting involved with someone expecting them to change significantly in a predictable or positive way is a mistake. It’s like getting involved with an addict and expecting them to stop using. She may change, but she very likely may not, and you will never get the years back.

If you are not OK with having an LTR with her at at least the level of screwed up that she currently is, you are kidding yourself. She no doubt has her reasons for being as damaged as she is, we all do. However, we all have to carry our own damage. We can’t carry anyone else’s nor can we expect anyone to carry ours. Whatever her reasons, she’s how she is and you’re either OK with that or you’re not.[/quote]

I hear you brother. I do appreciate your opinion. It wasn’t like I just thought this up and expect everything to be all rosy and stuff. I did thought about what you said - the possibility of not changing and whatnot. Before I came across this thread, I was torn and didn’t know what to expect from this girl. For some reason I couldn’t toss her out like I do with other girls at the 1st sight of red flag. Now I know she MIGHT have Borderline personality disorder, but damn it fits her to a T. Now I understand why she did those things and I feel somewhat better as I was starting to doubt myself in terms of did I do the right thing or did I fuck up by being impatient?

We’ll just have to see what happens when I drop this on her next week as she’s out of town this weekend. Then I’ll have to decide from there. I’m just glad that Lorez brought up his concerns with his girl on this thread and people with good common sense chime in their experiences and suggestion of actions. It’s very reassuring.

533

[quote]Nutso wrote:

We’ll just have to see what happens when I drop this on her next week as she’s out of town this weekend. Then I’ll have to decide from there. I’m just glad that Lorez brought up his concerns with his girl on this thread and people with good common sense chime in their experiences and suggestion of actions. It’s very reassuring.[/quote]

Yeah.

Take notes, because this will end as a clusterfuck.

Might as well have solid log so you dont do that more than once.

534

The reason I told my friend the best thing to do is run when he comes across a girl exhibiting the patterns and traits of BPD is because, if you research the disorder, it’s one of the most difficult for shrinks to treat. They usually don’t see much progress in patients, and the very impulsive, hot/cold nature leads patients to usually stop treatment suddenly, esp when it starts to get to uncomfortable truths.

This is a problem with any serious personality disorders, getting patients to stay on their meds and follow through with treatments when they are unable to even objectively realize there is something wrong with them. In the case of my ex, she was on a couple fairly heavy psych meds (which is a def RED FLAG, but I’m more lenient than I should be on that one since I’ve been on antidepressants since my teens), and every once in a while would acknowledge after a huge fight over nothing that maybe she should get back into therapy and that it did help when she was going, but she suddenly stopped and had no good reason as to why.

In spite of these random moments of clarity, she never did go back to therapy or change any of her behavior, and from what I can tell, over two years later, she’s still exactly the same and driving insane any poor sap dumb enough to think he can master her.

Is it possible to gain control over a girl with those issues? Sure, anything is possible. I even did it myself for a while, but it was a constant struggle, moreso than with regular girls, and honestly, not worth it. Why take on such an exceptionally difficult task when there are millions of other attractive women out there without all the baggage?

535

[quote]orion wrote:
Yeah.

Take notes, because this will end as a clusterfuck.

Might as well have solid log so you dont do that more than once.
[/quote]

And I am fully prepared for this possible clusterfuck. At least I can come to peace with it if it comes to that.

536

But I agree, I would not tell her she might have a personality disorder. I can’t see how she would receive that in any kind of favorable way. Maybe drop hints about counseling or something into conversations, not directed at her, and hope she decides to see a shrink and thinks she came up with the idea on her own.

537

[quote]Lanfair wrote:

In spite of these random moments of clarity, she never did go back to therapy or change any of her behavior, and from what I can tell, over two years later, she’s still exactly the same and driving insane any poor sap dumb enough to think he can master her.

Is it possible to gain control over a girl with those issues? Sure, anything is possible. I even did it myself for a while, but it was a constant struggle, moreso than with regular girls, and honestly, not worth it. Why take on such an exceptionally difficult task when there are millions of other attractive women out there without all the baggage?[/quote]

Are you intending to imply that successful male/female relationships are about the man being able to “master” or “gain control” of the woman and that is easier to do so if the woman isn’t crazy?

Just curious…

538

This whole thread is one reason why I love college

539

I wouldn’t describe it as mastering control of the woman, more of mastering your own position in not being a doormat or subject to the whims and petty tests that women will try to put you through, often unconsciously. It’s more important to be firm in that area in the beginning bc it sets a precedent for the rest of the relationship. For example, unjustified jealousy of any female friends and acquaintances you have. If you acquiesce to that instead of putting your foot down, you just set a precedent for the rest of your relationship.

To be specific, in regards to my own personal experience I shared about my relationship with my ex, I should have very firmly put my foot down when she tried to cancel plans on me at the last minute and other stunts she pulled. Instead of talking her into not canceling, I should have told her my time is too important to waste and if she can’t keep her commitments, I’ll find someone else who can. And then refused to go out with her that night even if she tried to change her mind. But, although I did manage to do that the second go round when I began dating her again a few months later, I was never really able to hold those positions without constantly having to reassert myself and getting into huge fights, mainly bc her behavior was erratic and impulsive beyond her own control.

540

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Lanfair wrote:

In spite of these random moments of clarity, she never did go back to therapy or change any of her behavior, and from what I can tell, over two years later, she’s still exactly the same and driving insane any poor sap dumb enough to think he can master her.

Is it possible to gain control over a girl with those issues? Sure, anything is possible. I even did it myself for a while, but it was a constant struggle, moreso than with regular girls, and honestly, not worth it. Why take on such an exceptionally difficult task when there are millions of other attractive women out there without all the baggage?[/quote]

Are you intending to imply that successful male/female relationships are about the man being able to “master” or “gain control” of the woman and that is easier to do so if the woman isn’t crazy?

Just curious…[/quote]