Let's Process Our Feelings II

Off Topic
521

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent. [/quote]

That’s a pretty limiting belief.

Are you capable of liking a woman for “her”, or just for what she represents and offers/provides/does?[/quote]

^^ YEAH. What about that??
[/quote]

I am not sure.

I know that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically.

What I dont know is whether we idealize what lives up to our opportunistic requirements.

522

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
…
[/quote]

Ha! I knew you had 2 legs!

Oh, and I started back with the company making aluminum frames again.
[/quote]

You’re happy there? It’s a good move?[/quote]

Yeah. It’s strange. I wasn’t very happy doing some of the other stuff I was building. Elements of each thing were pretty neat, but over all it was just kind of blah- and when a production schedule ramps up it goes from blah to an industrial beat down. And the truck bodies thing was just a brief interlude of complete bullshit.

I guess I just really got the bug for this stuff.

523

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent. [/quote]

That’s a pretty limiting belief.

Are you capable of liking a woman for “her”, or just for what she represents and offers/provides/does?[/quote]

^^ YEAH. What about that??
[/quote]

I am not sure.

I know that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically.

What I dont know is whether we idealize what lives up to our opportunistic requirements.

[/quote]

You know that, huh? How do you know?

I’m pretty sure mine is a history of idealistic love.

524

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

You also need to realize that continuing on this path puts you in the way of your feared outcome. If you seek young women who seek men of higher status for its own sake, you will find yourself with someone who’s after your status, not you. Find someone who likes what you like and stop worrying about what she did as a 22-year-old.

[/quote]

First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent.

Second, no, I will not stop worrying about her past beccause it is the best predictor of her future behavior I have and if she has ridden the carousel, she is ruined.

If only because she would be lacking impulse control and has the foresight, social intelligence and time preference of a gerbil. [/quote]

First of all, I didn’t suggest you find a woman who likes you for “you.” (lol) I suggested you find someone who likes what you like. You know, common interests? So that you can have an enjoyable life. Relationships are not built on SMV, they’re built on compatibility.
[/quote]

This is a nice idea with no traction in reality.

I do have a very good tool at my disposal, they talk,always.

I am all like non judgemental and stuff, though I am really not.

Also, if she has a history of being stupid and shortsighted, well, she is stupid and shortsighted.

Promiscuous…

I am a man, who cares?

Girls I would have taken care for?

Two, no more.

[quote]

In summary: get over the bad girlfriend you had years ago and get to know someone. Stop gaming them. Use those skills to be sexually exciting later, after you establish that you like one another.[/quote]

What is this nonsense?

It is my job to fuck her, it is her job to get me into a relationship…

Sorry, but if she tried and failed half a dozend times, maybe there is a reason for it.

I wont carry all the burden…

How is this on me?

525

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent. [/quote]

That’s a pretty limiting belief.

Are you capable of liking a woman for “her”, or just for what she represents and offers/provides/does?[/quote]

^^ YEAH. What about that??
[/quote]

I am not sure.

I know that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically.

What I dont know is whether we idealize what lives up to our opportunistic requirements.

[/quote]

You know that, huh? How do you know?

I’m pretty sure mine is a history of idealistic love. [/quote]

Oh, that is because I was in the awesome position of being somewhat awesome and then I was not and then I was again and then I was not…

And my success with women waxed and waned with it.

Be healthy, be attractive, be succesful and bitches aint shit…

And no, men generally do not behave that way, even if you personally know a super special case where one did…

No woman ever loved me, they loved what I could do for her or what I represented…

For them, that is me.

526

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

You also need to realize that continuing on this path puts you in the way of your feared outcome. If you seek young women who seek men of higher status for its own sake, you will find yourself with someone who’s after your status, not you. Find someone who likes what you like and stop worrying about what she did as a 22-year-old.

[/quote]

First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent.

Second, no, I will not stop worrying about her past beccause it is the best predictor of her future behavior I have and if she has ridden the carousel, she is ruined.

If only because she would be lacking impulse control and has the foresight, social intelligence and time preference of a gerbil. [/quote]

First of all, I didn’t suggest you find a woman who likes you for “you.” (lol) I suggested you find someone who likes what you like. You know, common interests? So that you can have an enjoyable life. Relationships are not built on SMV, they’re built on compatibility.
[/quote]

This is a nice idea with no traction in reality.

I do have a very good tool at my disposal, they talk,always.

I am all like non judgemental and stuff, though I am really not.

Also, if she has a history of being stupid and shortsighted, well, she is stupid and shortsighted.

Promiscuous…

I am a man, who cares?

Girls I would have taken care for?

Two, no more.

[quote]

In summary: get over the bad girlfriend you had years ago and get to know someone. Stop gaming them. Use those skills to be sexually exciting later, after you establish that you like one another.[/quote]

What is this nonsense?

It is my job to fuck her, it is her job to get me into a relationship…

Sorry, but if she tried and failed half a dozend times, maybe there is a reason for it.

I wont carry all the burden…

How is this on me?[/quote]

You’re a lunatic. You won’t carry all the burden? How is this on you? My fingers are SPUTTERING on the keyboard. It’s both of your jobs. If Hockey’d played relationship-hard-to-get I’d have quickly withdrawn. Why would I pressure someone to be with me? Especially while he pressures me for NSA sex!

And why is compatibility a nice idea with no reality? You’re going to be able to love someone you don’t like?

Who cares if you’re promiscuous? Well, I suppose women who believe sex is something to be shared only with close intimates care about that sort of thing, which if I’m not mistaken is the woman you seek.

You’re going about this the exact wrong way.

527

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent. [/quote]

That’s a pretty limiting belief.

Are you capable of liking a woman for “her”, or just for what she represents and offers/provides/does?[/quote]

^^ YEAH. What about that??
[/quote]

I am not sure.

I know that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically.

What I dont know is whether we idealize what lives up to our opportunistic requirements.

[/quote]

You know that, huh? How do you know?

I’m pretty sure mine is a history of idealistic love. [/quote]

Oh, that is because I was in the awesome position of being somewhat awesome and then I was not and then I was again and then I was not…

And my success with women waxed and waned with it.

Be healthy, be attractive, be succesful and bitches aint shit…

And no, men generally do not behave that way, even if you personally know a super special case where one did…

No woman ever loved me, they loved what I could do for her or what I represented…

For them, that is me.

[/quote]

Does it NEVER occur to you that you chose poorly? When I noticed that my entire relationship history was comprised of similarly bad tempered, impulsive men, I changed what I was looking for. Even before I met the second one I was shifting my criteria to weed out things I didn’t like. What sense in hating and mistrusting all men when as a heterosexual woman I need one of them?

Why not just find one I can like and trust?

528

Yo Orion. A few pages back you posted about no woman liking you for who you are, but moreso what you represent…

I may be way off base here, but do you like yourself? Do you put it out there that you are a likeable guy and have confidence in that? Do you put it out there that you want all those things; to be wanted, loved and trusted?

Kinda seems like you are forgetting how to reciprocate. I may be way off, just seems like you are forgetting to be yourself and paying too much attention to games and tests. Or you’ve maybe given up trying to show women who you really are. It’s hard to not put up walls when you have had your trust violated and it’s crushing when you show yourself and you aren’t respected. But you have to try man, adjust.

It’s weird sometimes, on one hand we need to be aware when a woman is testing us to see if we can adapt, when they test us to see if we will allow ourselves to be walked on, all the stupid tests they give us and then out of the other side of their mouth complain about chivalry being dead, blah blah, some women don’t realize that these tests are basically road blocks to chivalry and the “As you wish” Princess Bride sort of personality. Most will read it as if you are a doormat, even if it is genuine.

Maybe you can step outside the box? There’s no rule saying you cant turn her test into your own game. If she tests to see if she can walk all over you, ask her about it. “Is this the part where you ask me to do X, and if I comply I’m X, and if I don’t I’m Y?” Then you might be able to create conversation about the tests themselves, which makes for a funny conversation unless she gets defensive and entrenches herself in a denial position. If a woman does that she’s bad news anyhow.

Just an idea. It works btw and you can turn it into your own test.

529

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

You also need to realize that continuing on this path puts you in the way of your feared outcome. If you seek young women who seek men of higher status for its own sake, you will find yourself with someone who’s after your status, not you. Find someone who likes what you like and stop worrying about what she did as a 22-year-old.

[/quote]

First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent.

Second, no, I will not stop worrying about her past beccause it is the best predictor of her future behavior I have and if she has ridden the carousel, she is ruined.

If only because she would be lacking impulse control and has the foresight, social intelligence and time preference of a gerbil. [/quote]

First of all, I didn’t suggest you find a woman who likes you for “you.” (lol) I suggested you find someone who likes what you like. You know, common interests? So that you can have an enjoyable life. Relationships are not built on SMV, they’re built on compatibility.
[/quote]

This is a nice idea with no traction in reality.

I do have a very good tool at my disposal, they talk,always.

I am all like non judgemental and stuff, though I am really not.

Also, if she has a history of being stupid and shortsighted, well, she is stupid and shortsighted.

Promiscuous…

I am a man, who cares?

Girls I would have taken care for?

Two, no more.

That is an ugly bunch of misrepetentations…

No it is not both of our jobs… I need to bed her, she needs to get me into a relationship. That is her job and hers alone.

Compatibility is a nice idea, it translates to me as “you fullfill her opportunistic requirements”…

As for “women care” I dont care what they say, I care for what they do… And a high N-count has never hurt anyone, given that he was male of course.

Well, maybe someone, somewhere…

530

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent. [/quote]

That’s a pretty limiting belief.

Are you capable of liking a woman for “her”, or just for what she represents and offers/provides/does?[/quote]

^^ YEAH. What about that??
[/quote]

I am not sure.

I know that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically.

What I dont know is whether we idealize what lives up to our opportunistic requirements.

[/quote]

You know that, huh? How do you know?

I’m pretty sure mine is a history of idealistic love. [/quote]

Oh, that is because I was in the awesome position of being somewhat awesome and then I was not and then I was again and then I was not…

And my success with women waxed and waned with it.

Be healthy, be attractive, be succesful and bitches aint shit…

And no, men generally do not behave that way, even if you personally know a super special case where one did…

No woman ever loved me, they loved what I could do for her or what I represented…

For them, that is me.

[/quote]

Does it NEVER occur to you that you chose poorly? When I noticed that my entire relationship history was comprised of similarly bad tempered, impulsive men, I changed what I was looking for. Even before I met the second one I was shifting my criteria to weed out things I didn’t like. What sense in hating and mistrusting all men when as a heterosexual woman I need one of them?

Why not just find one I can like and trust?[/quote]

You know the standard red pill narrative of women, age and changing priorities?

Do I really need to point it out how you fit in there?

531

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent. [/quote]

That’s a pretty limiting belief.

Are you capable of liking a woman for “her”, or just for what she represents and offers/provides/does?[/quote]

^^ YEAH. What about that??
[/quote]

I am not sure.

I know that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically.

What I dont know is whether we idealize what lives up to our opportunistic requirements.

[/quote]

You know that, huh? How do you know?

I’m pretty sure mine is a history of idealistic love. [/quote]

Oh, that is because I was in the awesome position of being somewhat awesome and then I was not and then I was again and then I was not…

And my success with women waxed and waned with it.

Be healthy, be attractive, be succesful and bitches aint shit…

And no, men generally do not behave that way, even if you personally know a super special case where one did…

No woman ever loved me, they loved what I could do for her or what I represented…

For them, that is me.

[/quote]

Does it NEVER occur to you that you chose poorly? When I noticed that my entire relationship history was comprised of similarly bad tempered, impulsive men, I changed what I was looking for. Even before I met the second one I was shifting my criteria to weed out things I didn’t like. What sense in hating and mistrusting all men when as a heterosexual woman I need one of them?

Why not just find one I can like and trust?[/quote]

You know the standard red pill narrative of women, age and changing priorities?

Do I really need to point it out how you fit in there?
[/quote]

On the other almost all of my long term friends are married to men they married young who are, coincidentally, alike to the man I’m seeing. His friends and family seem to be similarly long-married. I don’t think I’ve changed in my goals since I started out, and I’m guessing neither has he.

I was married to my husband for a looooong time. He wasn’t a youthful alpha fling now replaced by a convenient beta.

Your narratives are meaningless. Ex-husband rode rodeo, won martial arts trophies, spoke internationally, and was sexually passive, maybe even submissive. Ex-boyfriend apparently wildly successful in terms of sexual conquests, but less manly in his other pursuits, anti-commitment at first. Current guy very polite, very patient, skilled in seemingly all manly arts, has been up-front about seeking commitment.

How is it you distinguish the alphas from the betas again?

Your philosophy of life has holes all through it.

532

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

You also need to realize that continuing on this path puts you in the way of your feared outcome. If you seek young women who seek men of higher status for its own sake, you will find yourself with someone who’s after your status, not you. Find someone who likes what you like and stop worrying about what she did as a 22-year-old.

[/quote]

First of all, no woman will ever like me for “me” but for what I represent.

Second, no, I will not stop worrying about her past beccause it is the best predictor of her future behavior I have and if she has ridden the carousel, she is ruined.

If only because she would be lacking impulse control and has the foresight, social intelligence and time preference of a gerbil. [/quote]

First of all, I didn’t suggest you find a woman who likes you for “you.” (lol) I suggested you find someone who likes what you like. You know, common interests? So that you can have an enjoyable life. Relationships are not built on SMV, they’re built on compatibility.
[/quote]

This is a nice idea with no traction in reality.

I do have a very good tool at my disposal, they talk,always.

I am all like non judgemental and stuff, though I am really not.

Also, if she has a history of being stupid and shortsighted, well, she is stupid and shortsighted.

Promiscuous…

I am a man, who cares?

Girls I would have taken care for?

Two, no more.

That is an ugly bunch of misrepetentations…

No it is not both of our jobs… I need to bed her, she needs to get me into a relationship. That is her job and hers alone.[/quote]

I can’t even imagine having a man act cagey about wanting to move toward a relationship. Are you 15?

Opportunistic requirement that he like hiking, spicy food, and being near the water? What are you talking about? I’m talking about common interests.

[quote]As for “women care” I dont care what they say, I care for what they do… And a high N-count has never hurt anyone, given that he was male of course.

Well, maybe someone, somewhere…[/quote]

Slutty, indiscriminate behavior is nasty regardless of who does it.

533

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Slutty, indiscriminate behavior is nasty regardless of who does it.[/quote]

On that note, my evening consisted of strippers and booze.

And in that environment, orion’s narrative holds almost 100% true. Most people in there are either drunk or high enough (the dancers and the clientele) that most of those scenarios play out. Nevermind that the entire business is fundamentally “women exchanging their sexual charm for money”.

But the part I really question is exactly what influence one’s base behaviors, sans inhibitions, play out in most of Real Life ™. There are underlying instinctual behaviors that definitely drive things… but a lot of situations don’t really play out as those base behaviors would suggest, once you factor in sober conscious behavior, not just of the participants but of the people who influence them.

On a personal note, the insight I’ve gotten from orion’s worldview has been useful, but I wouldn’t say it’s as complete as I thought it was.

The night of a company holiday party, when everyone is trashed beyond belief, the model fits very very well. The other 364 days of the year, not so much.

The question is, if it doesn’t fit for most scenarios, most of the time, why hold it as such an absolute truism?

Even if it’s a fundamental underlying force, the expression of it is controlled, limited, altered by a lot of factors both socially (friends, family, work environment, etc.) and via basic conscious logical thought.

534

But, isn’t that actually slutty discriminate behavior since it’s okay in particular situations?

535

[quote]Severiano wrote:
But, isn’t that actually slutty discriminate behavior since it’s okay in particular situations?[/quote]

I suppose that’s true.

My comment was more around the hypergamy, alpha/beta/omega structures (male and female), and gaming that goes on “naturally” when inhibitions are down. Even the sex vs relationship thing is present, although “relationship” in this case is a little different (i.e., creating a repeat customer and income stream).

Even the competing desires of “money”/provider, status, and compatibility are present. The big spenders (obviously) get attention, but at the same time, the alpha males of a group get attention, even if they’re not spending any money. And there’s still another dynamic where the guys who are seen as funny, interesting, mysterious, and maybe maybe share common interests, are seen as appealing. Even if they’re not spending money. Even if they’re not high-status. Granted, the hypergamic goals come first.

If you spend your time in bars, clubs, you see this stuff all the time. But I wouldn’t extrapolate it to describe everything else.

536

Wow. You guys use a lot of big words! Not to be the peace keeper, but both sides have valid arguments. Men need to protect themselves from opportunistic women, but not all women are opportunistic succubi.

Metaphor time :slight_smile:

If you go to the beach you can wade into the ocean waist deep and have a good time splashing in the surf. It might not be the most exciting time ever, but you have fun and enjoy yourself. The odds of getting eaten by a shark is pretty low; which is nice.

Maybe you want a little more excitement so you venture out farther from shore. Your sense of adventure and fun increases and the thought of returning closer to shore becomes less attractive. By doing this, you have also exposed yourself to a greater threat of shark attack. You need to be more cognizant of what is going on around you in order to avoid the dorsal fins looming about.

Or, you can chum the deep waters with various status symbols. There is a rush in seeing and swimming with a great white. Its a total rush and everyone is impressed with your stories, but the longer you stay out there, the greater chance of becoming a shark’s dinner.

Or you can stay on the shore and never risk a shark encounter, at all. There is nothing wrong with this. Maybe you watched in horror as a close, personal friend endured Jaws 3D and vowed to never let that happen to you. Its understandable, but the people that are in the ocean don’t need you screaming “shark” at everything with fins.

Throughout our lives we will swim at different depths. Sometimes we may even wander into the deep waters without realizing it or drift in to shore when we aren’t paying attention. But eventually we find where we are most comfortable and look for a person who is swimming at the same depth. You may have to swim up and down the shoreline to find that person, but you are going to be better off in the end doing that than dragging a person from a different depth to yours; even if they are closer.

Conclusion: I have zero desire to work today :slight_smile:

537

The problem is when you’re wading in the shallows and a shark comes out of nowhere and attacks you.

And then takes half of your money and the house.

538

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
If you go to the beach you can wade into the ocean waist deep and have a good time splashing in the surf. It might not be the most exciting time ever, but you have fun and enjoy yourself. The odds of getting eaten by a shark is pretty low; which is nice.
[/quote]

From FAQ's

" It happens that shark attack victims are most often white males between the ages of 18 and 25, and most shark attacks occur in less than 5 feet of water."

At least I’m out of the age bracket, not necessarily the water depth…

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
Conclusion: I have zero desire to work today :)[/quote]

I understand that feeling, lol.

539

[quote]2busy wrote:
" It happens that shark attack victims are most often white males between the ages of 18 and 25, and most shark attacks occur in less than 5 feet of water."

[/quote]

So, a pretty appropriate metaphor after all.

540

Story time :smiley:

I have a friend who just turned 50. He has a good paying job, is in good financial health, never married, no kids. He’s dating a single mother who is 14 years younger than him. They met through an on-line dating site where she had provocative photos of herself posted. She rents, has been divorced and works at a dead end job living paycheck to paycheck. Clearly she is using him for financial stability and hopes to trap him into marriage and fatherhood, right?

I have to admit, that is a reasonable assumption to make, except that this describes my bf and I. We’ve been together 3 years, don’t live together (or even in the same state), no plans to live together or get married. I have never so much as borrowed money from him. In fact, I have raised my game and returned to school so that I can get a better paying job and be on more equal financial footing with him.

I don’t think I am special either, I have just lived long enough to really understand myself and what I want from a relationship and, it turns out, he and I want the same thing. Could I have done this in my twenties? Absolutely not. I was an idiot then who was still chasing the Disney ending. It took a lot of trial and error for me to write my own happy ending. It may not be for everyone, but it works for us.

Most importantly, though, we don’t take any of this for granted. Every six months or so we have a “state of the union” discussion and make sure we are both heading in the same direction. If I were to suddenly say I wanted to eventually get married, he would say, “I love you, but there’s the door”. Hell, if I told him I wanted to get a dog, but would need to bring it with me to his place on weekends I am there he would say the same damn thing. Similarly, if he were to try to put himself before my daughter, he knows he will lose. Straight forward honesty is a beautiful thing. We make concessions for each other and will even check in on big decisions, but the final decision will always be our own. Based upon our personalities, this is what works best for US. I am not saying it is for everyone but we have only ever had two “fights” and they were both over 2 years ago.

Oooh. Funny story. My bf and I had been dating a few months and I got that ol’ female hankering to say, “I love you”. We were in bed messing around and I kept slowing down and staring him in the eyes trying to figure out whether I should say it or not. He would look back and go, “Just say it. Its OK”. So I bite the bullet and tell him I love him. His response? “I can’t support you and your daughter”. ZING! Not the response I was expecting. It turns out, he thought I was going to ask for anal :smiley: