Let's Process Our Feelings II

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
For the record, I’m so damned crazy about Hockey I can hardly manage myself. Magazine Club is tired of listening to me gush about him and my best friend threatens to avoid me if I don’t stop being so obnoxiously happy.[/quote]

Well, congrats then.

How long has it been?

Seems you done good!

How about a sample gush?[/quote]

Be patient! I was beginning my gush, but it was late and it’s hard to narrow it all down. So I decided to think about it as I went to sleep.

In answer to your first question, our first date was December 7th. First chaste kiss wasn’t until New Year’s Eve! So not long, but we’re definitely a couple now.

It just keeps getting better and better - I never knew things could be this nice. I don’t know that I say very much specific stuff at magazine club because there are a couple of single women there who don’t want to be. Hockey caught their attention at the first meeting with the two dozen tulips and two dozen roses, which I’d divided into four (five?) vases. Flowers were everywhere. So they’ll ask if I’m still seeing him and how it’s going and I say something like “It’s perfect; I like him so much” and answer any questions, but I think it’s my non-verbals. Because I like him so much! My best friend gets more, but she’s still insisting that I’m “doing that thing you do,” seeing only the good. I disagree. I’m alert to negatives. Have I mentioned his malapropisms and mispronunciations? I question mild dyslexia because he reads a great deal and has a strong vocabulary, but seems weak in letter-relationship awareness or something.

But that’s not gushing. . .let’s see. . .I like his integrity and calm. From what I can tell his inside perfectly matches his outside - he’s structurally sound. He buys American when he can, but without being a weird, insular bigot. When a business fails to meet expectations, he simply stops doing business. No giant flap, just a quiet decision. He doesn’t hesitate to express negative stuff, but does it politely and intelligently.

He’s patient and frugal. He seems to have a list of things he’d like to buy used and keeps an eye out for them. He’s looking for a tractor (he has 150 acres and is improving it himself), which he’ll buy used, use, and then sell to recoup the investment. He bought a canoe new last week after looking for one for a couple of years. He decided that saving $1500 on a 20 year old canoe wasn’t a good enough deal to continue waiting to replace his old one (bought used, lasted him 20 years). I admire that. On the other hand, he’s not cheap at all.

He continues to make me laugh. I just like being around him. He’s interesting to talk to and knowledgeable about all sorts of things I’m not. Any time we disagree (e.g. does popped popcorn have fiber) we grab our phones and check to see who’s right. We’re running about 50/50.

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

I like him so much. I’m trying not to be fearful that nothing is really this good and worried about shoes dropping, and mostly succeeding.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

He wields his dick with authority !?!

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

He wields his dick with authority !?![/quote]

Yes. Honestly, I think he wields everything with authority. Including, increasingly, me.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

He wields his dick with authority !?![/quote]

Yes. Honestly, I think he wields everything with authority. Including, increasingly, me.

[/quote]

Damn…

A Unicorn…

Where to go from here?

Hypergamy can be a bit of a hassle…

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

See what I mean? There IS box beating going on 'round here.
[/quote]

Well, yes. It took us a bit to get to first, but after that we ran the bases at a decent clip.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

He wields his dick with authority !?![/quote]

Yes. Honestly, I think he wields everything with authority. Including, increasingly, me.

[/quote]

Damn…

A Unicorn…

Where to go from here?

Hypergamy can be a bit of a hassle…[/quote]

Where to go from where?

How does hypergamy come into it?

Why a unicorn?

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

He wields his dick with authority !?![/quote]

Yes. Honestly, I think he wields everything with authority. Including, increasingly, me.

[/quote]

Damn…

A Unicorn…

Where to go from here?

Hypergamy can be a bit of a hassle…[/quote]

Where to go from where?

How does hypergamy come into it?

Why a unicorn?
[/quote]

Well, lets say he has maxed out both his provider and lover potential…

What now?

Postulating that you are a woman, therefore, hypergamous, aka, always looking for a better deal, what now?

Dont get me wrong, I wish you all the best, but in 6 months or so you will tell yourself that if you can get him, you can do better.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

The physical stuff. . .ORION I HAVE A REPORT FROM THE FIELD RE: NICE GUYS. . .also keeps getting better and better. He’s becoming more aggressive as we move forward, which I like. In fact I now see him as being extremely aggressive, but quietly and confidently so rather than the more combative aggression I was used to with Tim and my ex-husband. Or maybe aggressive isn’t the right word for Hockey, I’m not sure. On the other hand, he likes aggressive sports played aggressively, so maybe it is. Anyway, sex is going from satisfying to breathless.

[/quote]

He wields his dick with authority !?![/quote]

Yes. Honestly, I think he wields everything with authority. Including, increasingly, me.

[/quote]

Damn…

A Unicorn…

Where to go from here?

Hypergamy can be a bit of a hassle…[/quote]

Where to go from where?

How does hypergamy come into it?

Why a unicorn?
[/quote]

Well, lets say he has maxed out both his provider and lover potential…

What now?

Postulating that you are a woman, therefore, hypergamous, aka, always looking for a better deal, what now?

Dont get me wrong, I wish you all the best, but in 6 months or so you will tell yourself that if you can get him, you can do better. [/quote]

I don’t think so. That’s not to say that I’m certain that we’ll be together in six monthIs, but if not it won’t be for that reason. I very much want to settle in, and my history is of long term relationships, so it’s not merely wistful longing for the impossible.

Also, I don’t know what you mean by “maxed out both his provider and lover potential.” How so? I think his provider/caretaker potential is very strong, as well as being nicely suited to my wants. We seem to be on the same page regarding what constitutes a nice life, and ours is not everyone’s dream. I don’t think I’ve yet realized his full potential as a lover, nor he mine.

Besides, who is to say that he’s not looking for someone who brings more to the relationship than I do? But all indications are that he is as anxious to find the right person and build a home as I am. I don’t think either of us want to waste our lives looking for perfection, which is the true unicorn. I think we’re both perfectly content with imperfection.

That’s not to say we’ll go the distance, who knows, but we’re both aware that we’ve found a strong potential partner.

A lot of that changes on both sides over time too (the lovey stuff), in that what is happening now isn’t necessarily what should or will be done in say, 10 years- which is a lead in for me to say that tomorrow is the 10 year anniversary of my wife and I meeting.

And in my opinion, it should. By trying to quantify potential as being maximized it ignores the effects of change on both sides that occurs over time.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
A lot of that changes on both sides over time too (the lovey stuff), in that what is happening now isn’t necessarily what should or will be done in say, 10 years- which is a lead in for me to say that tomorrow is the 10 year anniversary of my wife and I meeting.

And in my opinion, it should. By trying to quantify potential as being maximized it ignores the effects of change on both sides that occurs over time.
[/quote]

Ten years brings a lot of growth, ideally.

My experience of a long marriage was of waves of various strong emotions. Discontent, infatuation, boredom, joy. . .these would roll through but mostly it was a pleasant blend of friendship and partnership. My assumption is that if we’d been better matched there would have been also good sex and fun times and laughter. Had those been present discontent and boredom would have had a hard time getting a toe-hold.

Questions for anyone: Why are feelings important when they can be so easily changed? For example, if I’m feeling sad I can choose to indulge the sadness or I can tell myself I don’t want to live in sadness and choose to live another way.

Feelings are highly subjective and wholly dependent upon their context for meaning. Why would anyone trust their feelings at all, let alone use them to guide life decisions?

Ok, very good answer (though I might argue that once the acute-ness of strong feelings is over, they can be changed quite readily)

Now, replace the word “changed” with “processed”.

If I sit on a hot stove, I’ll be burned no matter how much I “process” the idea that I should be able to have a seat.

Take the worst break-up; certainly you’re not saying the pain can’t be “processed” away in a healthy and functional way?

How does one “process” away a third degree burn?

Eh, I’m not sure where I’m going with this. I’m just gnawing on some half-formed ideas and trying to get some feedback; maybe find some terms I can google and try and work something out.

Actually, I’m absolutely fucking pissed right now. Just went through 12 weeks of couples therapy with my GF and thought it went great. So well, the GF called last week and said we though we were done for now. The therapist said, come in for one more session - she likes to have a “termination” session to process everything we’ve been through.

It was like I was Joe Theissman and she was LT. It was an hour and fifteen minutes (it was a 50 minute appt!) of her telling me how I obstructed the process during every appointment, of how I never intended to attend the appointments in good faith, of her telling me I was consciously keeping my (adult, extremely capable Dr.) girlfriend helpless and infantalized, and how I was just like her ex ( I shit you not) and that’s why she divorced him (and how jealous of her child she gets when she sees her ex being affectionate with their 2 year old, “that should have been me!”). I swear on my fathers grave I’m not making a bit of this up. Is that appropriate for a therapist to share…?

It was 8 fucking hours ago and I can’t even think about sleeping I’m so pissed. Total fucking hatchet job and all I could think was, “If you don’t chill the fuck out, you’re never going to get your CCL” (IL just passed a CCL law, but mental health professionals are mandated reporters if they think you’re a danger to your self or others.)

So, I sat there and took this shit with a smile on my face.

On the way home my GF said, “I guess she wanted one last shot at you”

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Actually, I’m absolutely fucking pissed right now. Just went through 12 weeks of couples therapy with my GF and thought it went great. So well, the GF called last week and said we though we were done for now. The therapist said, come in for one more session - she likes to have a “termination” session to process everything we’ve been through.

It was like I was Joe Theissman and she was LT. It was an hour and fifteen minutes (it was a 50 minute appt!) of her telling me how I obstructed the process during every appointment, of how I never intended to attend the appointments in good faith, of her telling me I was consciously keeping my (adult, extremely capable Dr.) girlfriend helpless and infantalized, and how I was just like her ex ( I shit you not) and that’s why she divorced him (and how jealous of her child she gets when she sees her ex being affectionate with their 2 year old, “that should have been me!”). I swear on my fathers grave I’m not making a bit of this up. Is that appropriate for a therapist to share…?

It was 8 fucking hours ago and I can’t even think about sleeping I’m so pissed. Total fucking hatchet job and all I could think was, “If you don’t chill the fuck out, you’re never going to get your CCL” (IL just passed a CCL law, but mental health professionals are mandated reporters if they think you’re a danger to your self or others.)

So, I sat there and took this shit with a smile on my face.

On the way home my GF said, “I guess she wanted one last shot at you”[/quote]

WHOA. I’m sorry that happened to you, Dr. P. I’m surprised she was able to be helpful to the two of you, but glad that was the case.

There are currently six other therapists on my team, and of those six there are only two I would send a family member to. One is an outright weirdo; one is my insecure, passive-aggressive colleague; and the other two are, in my opinion, not sharp enough to take on people who will challenge them intellectually. Previous teams have been about the same. One or two I would find helpful if I met them as a client; the rest limited, or downright fucked up.

I don’t know how to process that sort of anger, and have trouble with it as well. There’s no opportunity for closure and nothing to be learned. Processing is a matter of letting it gradually turn to disgust.

We spend a lot of time in training and supervision talking about managing triggers and countertransference. After my recent experience of couples counseling I had to call my ex-husband and laugh about what nightmares we must have been to the therapists we saw along the way. Me white hot with long suppressed fury, him combative and entrenched.

I’m always aware when people are hitting close to home. I hope like hell that I never enact my own shit on the people I see. God.

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Ok, very good answer (though I might argue that once the acute-ness of strong feelings is over, they can be changed quite readily)

Now, replace the word “changed” with “processed”.

If I sit on a hot stove, I’ll be burned no matter how much I “process” the idea that I should be able to have a seat.

Take the worst break-up; certainly you’re not saying the pain can’t be “processed” away in a healthy and functional way?

How does one “process” away a third degree burn?

Eh, I’m not sure where I’m going with this. I’m just gnawing on some half-formed ideas and trying to get some feedback; maybe find some terms I can google and try and work something out.[/quote]

You process the pain of the burn by acknowledging that it hurt like hell and by determining that in future you will handle things differently, just like in the breakup. Pain teaches. Lessons learned come from pain processed in a healthy and functional way.