Lesnar vs. Velasquez

Training
161

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Well…we…at least I did…knew Cain would out-strike Brock. What most should be talking about was Brock not being the dominant wrestler. Remember,even with Cain being a decorated wrestler,his skills were underestimated by most. [/quote]

I said this in my first post-fight post. It’s not so much that I thought Lesnar was the better wrestler, I just thought his size combined with wrestling ability was gonna be too much for Velasquez. When he stuffed Lesnars first shot and stood up after being taken down I thought he might take it. He rendered all of Lesnars “advantages” completely useless. JDS satnds no chance.

Another thing I wanted to add is how fluid Velasquez looks on his feet, and not just in comparison to someone with no hands like Lesnar. He’s got good footwork and is smooth with his combos. Carwin is by far the hardest puncher in MMA [and that’s a fact] but he’s almost mechanical with his movements. It’s like the difference between Ali and Foreman [I’m just using that as a comparison. Calm down Irish].[/quote]

I have heard from many high level wrestling “insiders” that Brocks skill and technique have never been THAT good. he was not offered scholarships to any major schools coming out of highschool. It was his freakish size, speed, and athleticism that got him to the top of the NCAA wrestling game. If you get a chance, google the final between him and the guy who beat him for the national championship the first time Brock competed for it. cant remember his name, but his opponent went on to be an multple all pro tackle for the new england patriots. the guy is a fucking beast, but compared to Brock on the mat he looked soft, slow and “weak”.

I think I heard somebody say that he could do a standing back flip weighing over 290lbs.

correct me if i am wrong, but at the NCAA wrestling championships, there is no 265lb weight limit, did not Brock wrestle at around 290 in college?

Point I am trying to make is that by his own admission Brock is not as strong as he was when he was in his early 20’s, it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs, as he is not as big and strong and fast as he was when he was a competitive wrestler, and elite level “technique” has never been his strong-point.

I saw a guy fight for the Bellator welterweight championships last night, he was on the 2004 olympic wrestling team, now THAT guy had some unreal wrestling skill. he did not look to be near the physical specimen (for his size) that Brock was/is, but he never missed a takedown, even when his opponent(who looked much bigger and more athletic btw) defended perfectly, he still got the take-down and finished in the mount.

not sure any of that made sense to anyone but me…fuck it I’m posting it anyway! lol[/quote]

You make a good point. We have yet to see the kind of wrestling elegance that Cain, Chael or Kos have shown, from Brock.

Perhaps he isn’t as a good a wrestler as he was back then, but his shot is still pretty damn fast. I think if he figured out how to time his shots and integrate his wrestling and striking the way GSP, Rashad, or Machida have, he’d come one step closer to beating Cain.[/quote]

Good point. That’s why he needs more experience. If he gets serious over the next year or so I think he’ll be back.

162

^^^Zeb, the guy can’t take a punch. Everyone he’s fighting looks comfortable in there. Lesnar only looks comfortable when he’s steam rolling a smaller, weaker opponent. When he can’t or can’t keep 'em down and gets tagged, he’s lost. I said the same thing after the 2nd Mir fight: Lesnar does not like getting hit, and has no idea how to react when he does. The difference is he sucked Mir in [after the super effective jumping knee to nowhere] and beat on his face. He lucked in to the Carwin win. Velasquez had a smarter gameplan and Lesnar wasn’t so lucky. His days at the top are done as long as someone like Velasquez or Carwin holds the belt.

163

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs…[/quote]

Hold on there now, slow down. Lesnar didn’t lose because he didn’t take Velasquez down. He lost because he couldn’t keep him down. He took him down twice in the first 2:00 of the fight. Also, while Carwin did stuff Lesnar’s takedowns in the 1st round he did take Carwin down in the 2nd and submit him. But that was because Carwin was tired - So? The point is Lesnar has taken everyone down that he’s gone up against in MMA. There are serious weak points to Lesnars game, but takedowns are not one of them.

[/quote]
He needs to train with MMA wrestlers why did he get rid of Greg Nelson.

164

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s fair. But he doesn’t know how to use his hands. I consider this a big victory for “striking.” The guy has very little skill on his feet.[/quote]
I see this as a victory for technique in general. Brock really hasn’t showed much solid technique in the Octagon. Even his wrestling has been dependant on his strength. Cain took Lesnar down with ease, and he didn’t have to use much power to do so. I think Cain is better than Brock in all areas in the Octagon except for strength.

Brock has gotten way too much hype. He was crushed by Carwin and only won that fight because of Carwins horrible combo of bad cardio and bad pacing. Couture was really old. Mir was pretty good, but he was also hyped too much because he had the title in a weak heavyweight division. I’m not saying Lesnar isn’t, or wasn’t a top 10 heavyweight, but even after the Carwin fight he had not done nearly enough to justify being ranked as number one.

I think Cain will be a hard nut to crack. Especially if he continues to implement good gameplans. Those people who can outstrike him can’t hang with his wrestling, and no one is significantly better at wrestling so he will always have the ground and pound option. His positional game is really solid, and I doubt he would get submitted from anybodys guard. Maybe Werdum, but he is a better striker than Werdum, and could probably gnp from sidecontrol or someplace less dangerous than the guard. Fedor is the only one that I would rank as a slight favorite against him, mainly because of his hands.

That being said though, anything can happen in MMA. One strike, or one bad move can change everything.

165

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^Zeb, the guy can’t take a punch. Everyone he’s fighting looks comfortable in there. Lesnar only looks comfortable when he’s steam rolling a smaller, weaker opponent. When he can’t or can’t keep 'em down and gets tagged, he’s lost. I said the same thing after the 2nd Mir fight: Lesnar does not like getting hit, and has no idea how to react when he does. The difference is he sucked Mir in [after the super effective jumping knee to nowhere] and beat on his face. He lucked in to the Carwin win. Velasquez had a smarter gameplan and Lesnar wasn’t so lucky. His days at the top are done as long as someone like Velasquez or Carwin holds the belt.[/quote]

I agree with much of what you said, he doesn’t like getting hit. He’s awkward when hit, he has no defense etc. But you are wrong regarding your first statement. The guy CAN take a punch. Both Carwin and Velasquez teed off on his head and he didn’t go lights out.

166

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs…[/quote]

Hold on there now, slow down. Lesnar didn’t lose because he didn’t take Velasquez down. He lost because he couldn’t keep him down. He took him down twice in the first 2:00 of the fight. Also, while Carwin did stuff Lesnar’s takedowns in the 1st round he did take Carwin down in the 2nd and submit him. But that was because Carwin was tired - So? The point is Lesnar has taken everyone down that he’s gone up against in MMA. There are serious weak points to Lesnars game, but takedowns are not one of them.

[/quote]
He needs to train with MMA wrestlers why did he get rid of Greg Nelson.[/quote]

So true, it seems like he has a group of his buddies that he trains with and he’s the big dog. You don’t get better that way.

167

Another factor may be that after Brock won his Div 1 title, he took a pretty extended break from wrestling (while he was in the WWE) and it’s only been fairly recently (since he got into MMA) that he’s been actually wrestling competitively (in an MMA context at least).

Cain on the other hand graduated in 2006 (placed 4th in the nation) and pretty much went straight into MMA. So, he didn’t have that long hiatus from competition like Brock did and thus has remained sharper with his skills.

I agree with you guys that Brock needs to go somewhere that he will be challenged and pushed (and preferably be forced to improve on his weaknesses) if he hopes to regain the title.

168

I’m really interested in how Brock comes back from this. To keep it all in context, he really hasn’t been doing this for that long, and if his body holds, he has a few more years to grow as a fighter. And to be honest, I thought his hands looked much better before Cain’s single.

169

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Well…we…at least I did…knew Cain would out-strike Brock. What most should be talking about was Brock not being the dominant wrestler. Remember,even with Cain being a decorated wrestler,his skills were underestimated by most. [/quote]

I said this in my first post-fight post. It’s not so much that I thought Lesnar was the better wrestler, I just thought his size combined with wrestling ability was gonna be too much for Velasquez. When he stuffed Lesnars first shot and stood up after being taken down I thought he might take it. He rendered all of Lesnars “advantages” completely useless. JDS satnds no chance.

Another thing I wanted to add is how fluid Velasquez looks on his feet, and not just in comparison to someone with no hands like Lesnar. He’s got good footwork and is smooth with his combos. Carwin is by far the hardest puncher in MMA [and that’s a fact] but he’s almost mechanical with his movements. It’s like the difference between Ali and Foreman [I’m just using that as a comparison. Calm down Irish].[/quote]

I have heard from many high level wrestling “insiders” that Brocks skill and technique have never been THAT good. he was not offered scholarships to any major schools coming out of highschool. It was his freakish size, speed, and athleticism that got him to the top of the NCAA wrestling game. If you get a chance, google the final between him and the guy who beat him for the national championship the first time Brock competed for it. cant remember his name, but his opponent went on to be an multple all pro tackle for the new england patriots. the guy is a fucking beast, but compared to Brock on the mat he looked soft, slow and “weak”.

I think I heard somebody say that he could do a standing back flip weighing over 290lbs.

correct me if i am wrong, but at the NCAA wrestling championships, there is no 265lb weight limit, did not Brock wrestle at around 290 in college?

Point I am trying to make is that by his own admission Brock is not as strong as he was when he was in his early 20’s, it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs, as he is not as big and strong and fast as he was when he was a competitive wrestler, and elite level “technique” has never been his strong-point.

I saw a guy fight for the Bellator welterweight championships last night, he was on the 2004 olympic wrestling team, now THAT guy had some unreal wrestling skill. he did not look to be near the physical specimen (for his size) that Brock was/is, but he never missed a takedown, even when his opponent(who looked much bigger and more athletic btw) defended perfectly, he still got the take-down and finished in the mount.

not sure any of that made sense to anyone but me…fuck it I’m posting it anyway! lol[/quote]

I said this months ago and was attacked.

Steve Neil is a beast- won worlds and then played pro football- after not playing in college.

Ben Askren is also a beast
Make it Funky.
His funky crazy style is so unorthodox Kid went straight to US and World teams
straight from college this kid is amazing.
He was a ‘training partner’ for another world team member
which is actually a titled position and a Huge deal

There is a great college match with him and Johnny Hendricks another super wrestler turned MMA

those kind of jumps in competition- Im not sure if people reading this realize how big a jump it is from NCAA to the rest of the world and what the difference is with these kinds of guys
and guys who excel but only go as far as say big ten or All american.
( which is pretty fucking far)

Brock what to say-?

He is a freak athlete, who has been able to make his attributes work for him.
and they worked for the most part.
competing at the top - that isn’t enough.

His college wrestling- I have already spoke on that many times-
he is a better ground wrestler- not grappler, his top riding is excellent
and in college his escapes and reversals very effective.
His take downs rudimentary at best- Ive’ also said for his size speed- do they need to be any better?
For MMA- yes.

As for his training camp this really is a team sport more on that in a sec.
From Frank Shamrock to BJ Penn to Carlos Newton , Tito Ortiz, Chuck Lidell , Matt Hughes, Brock

these are all fighters who train in camps revolving around them and never ever compete to their potential or never evolve.
or who have bullshit trainers who only seem to have one good fighter in their stable.

they might bring in good sparring partners, but its ego driven
surrounded by friends who blow smoke up their ass.

lots of mid tier fighters joined up with bigger camps - or more solid camps
and showed marked improvement as soon as they are training with better partners.
why train anywhere where you are the ‘best’ what is the point.

as for it being a team sport.
It took me too long to figure it out.

without being cliched I wont say your only as good as your team mates
but there is some truth to that.

back in time- I got to train with the 1992 greco team just prior to the olympics-
the most successful US team both in freestyle and Greco.

while not a ‘training partner’ I was invited - to help get people ready.
I got to play and roll with the big dogs or in my case the 55kg kids.

got to compete a bit internationally- but that is as far as I got…
red shirts- age, injuries and just not being good enough

good enough to be in the room.
not good enough for any of the big shows.

the point is- I did more for the guys getting ready then the work did for me
yes I got better- but I was just another guy adding some depth to someone else training.

that is the where the team element comes in.
isn’t it important to provide that for your partners?

that you need a stable of people who are as good or better then you at something
and that is not available in the smaller camps, and def not available in the camps driven by a single athlete- its like they are training with out any plan- or anyone able to make out a plan
other then having some ‘cool’ or ‘crazy’ conditioning.

I guess this is old fart rambling day.

170

good post, K

171

^Wow, that is a great observation.
I think you just unlocked one of the
big keys to reaching one’s full
potential in MMA.

172

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Well…we…at least I did…knew Cain would out-strike Brock. What most should be talking about was Brock not being the dominant wrestler. Remember,even with Cain being a decorated wrestler,his skills were underestimated by most. [/quote]

I said this in my first post-fight post. It’s not so much that I thought Lesnar was the better wrestler, I just thought his size combined with wrestling ability was gonna be too much for Velasquez. When he stuffed Lesnars first shot and stood up after being taken down I thought he might take it. He rendered all of Lesnars “advantages” completely useless. JDS satnds no chance.

Another thing I wanted to add is how fluid Velasquez looks on his feet, and not just in comparison to someone with no hands like Lesnar. He’s got good footwork and is smooth with his combos. Carwin is by far the hardest puncher in MMA [and that’s a fact] but he’s almost mechanical with his movements. It’s like the difference between Ali and Foreman [I’m just using that as a comparison. Calm down Irish].[/quote]

I have heard from many high level wrestling “insiders” that Brocks skill and technique have never been THAT good. he was not offered scholarships to any major schools coming out of highschool. It was his freakish size, speed, and athleticism that got him to the top of the NCAA wrestling game. If you get a chance, google the final between him and the guy who beat him for the national championship the first time Brock competed for it. cant remember his name, but his opponent went on to be an multple all pro tackle for the new england patriots. the guy is a fucking beast, but compared to Brock on the mat he looked soft, slow and “weak”.

I think I heard somebody say that he could do a standing back flip weighing over 290lbs.

correct me if i am wrong, but at the NCAA wrestling championships, there is no 265lb weight limit, did not Brock wrestle at around 290 in college?

Point I am trying to make is that by his own admission Brock is not as strong as he was when he was in his early 20’s, it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs, as he is not as big and strong and fast as he was when he was a competitive wrestler, and elite level “technique” has never been his strong-point.

I saw a guy fight for the Bellator welterweight championships last night, he was on the 2004 olympic wrestling team, now THAT guy had some unreal wrestling skill. he did not look to be near the physical specimen (for his size) that Brock was/is, but he never missed a takedown, even when his opponent(who looked much bigger and more athletic btw) defended perfectly, he still got the take-down and finished in the mount.

not sure any of that made sense to anyone but me…fuck it I’m posting it anyway! lol[/quote]

Thats the thing that makes me mad. What made brock so good in college was his strength,size and speed and he lost some of it. I still belive he is still a freak just not even close to what he used to be. I also still think that he is capable of taking cain down its just that he was not thinking and using all his strength…He seemed out of it. Look how he just triped on his takedown attempt. We all know brock is TOO dam athletic for that to happen its just hes mind was not in it imo.

173

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^Zeb, the guy can’t take a punch. Everyone he’s fighting looks comfortable in there. Lesnar only looks comfortable when he’s steam rolling a smaller, weaker opponent. When he can’t or can’t keep 'em down and gets tagged, he’s lost. I said the same thing after the 2nd Mir fight: Lesnar does not like getting hit, and has no idea how to react when he does. The difference is he sucked Mir in [after the super effective jumping knee to nowhere] and beat on his face. He lucked in to the Carwin win. Velasquez had a smarter gameplan and Lesnar wasn’t so lucky. His days at the top are done as long as someone like Velasquez or Carwin holds the belt.[/quote]

I agree with much of what you said, he doesn’t like getting hit. He’s awkward when hit, he has no defense etc. But you are wrong regarding your first statement. The guy CAN take a punch. Both Carwin and Velasquez teed off on his head and he didn’t go lights out.
[/quote]

Taking a punch is more than being a human heavy bag. Can his head physically take the punishment? The answer seems to be ‘YES’. Can his head mentally take the punishment? The answer is a resounding ‘FUCK NO’.

174

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Well…we…at least I did…knew Cain would out-strike Brock. What most should be talking about was Brock not being the dominant wrestler. Remember,even with Cain being a decorated wrestler,his skills were underestimated by most. [/quote]

I said this in my first post-fight post. It’s not so much that I thought Lesnar was the better wrestler, I just thought his size combined with wrestling ability was gonna be too much for Velasquez. When he stuffed Lesnars first shot and stood up after being taken down I thought he might take it. He rendered all of Lesnars “advantages” completely useless. JDS satnds no chance.

Another thing I wanted to add is how fluid Velasquez looks on his feet, and not just in comparison to someone with no hands like Lesnar. He’s got good footwork and is smooth with his combos. Carwin is by far the hardest puncher in MMA [and that’s a fact] but he’s almost mechanical with his movements. It’s like the difference between Ali and Foreman [I’m just using that as a comparison. Calm down Irish].[/quote]

I have heard from many high level wrestling “insiders” that Brocks skill and technique have never been THAT good. he was not offered scholarships to any major schools coming out of highschool. It was his freakish size, speed, and athleticism that got him to the top of the NCAA wrestling game. If you get a chance, google the final between him and the guy who beat him for the national championship the first time Brock competed for it. cant remember his name, but his opponent went on to be an multple all pro tackle for the new england patriots. the guy is a fucking beast, but compared to Brock on the mat he looked soft, slow and “weak”.

I think I heard somebody say that he could do a standing back flip weighing over 290lbs.

correct me if i am wrong, but at the NCAA wrestling championships, there is no 265lb weight limit, did not Brock wrestle at around 290 in college?

Point I am trying to make is that by his own admission Brock is not as strong as he was when he was in his early 20’s, it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs, as he is not as big and strong and fast as he was when he was a competitive wrestler, and elite level “technique” has never been his strong-point.

I saw a guy fight for the Bellator welterweight championships last night, he was on the 2004 olympic wrestling team, now THAT guy had some unreal wrestling skill. he did not look to be near the physical specimen (for his size) that Brock was/is, but he never missed a takedown, even when his opponent(who looked much bigger and more athletic btw) defended perfectly, he still got the take-down and finished in the mount.

not sure any of that made sense to anyone but me…fuck it I’m posting it anyway! lol[/quote]

Like brock could take down almost anyone its just he needs the metntal aspect of “fuck im taking him down and using my attributes to take him down” mentality. I think he has the mma mentality which is good but besides wresling nothing else is his strengths so far. I would imigine that he doesn’t want to get hit so he goes 80 percent of what he could do.

175

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Well…we…at least I did…knew Cain would out-strike Brock. What most should be talking about was Brock not being the dominant wrestler. Remember,even with Cain being a decorated wrestler,his skills were underestimated by most. [/quote]

I said this in my first post-fight post. It’s not so much that I thought Lesnar was the better wrestler, I just thought his size combined with wrestling ability was gonna be too much for Velasquez. When he stuffed Lesnars first shot and stood up after being taken down I thought he might take it. He rendered all of Lesnars “advantages” completely useless. JDS satnds no chance.

Another thing I wanted to add is how fluid Velasquez looks on his feet, and not just in comparison to someone with no hands like Lesnar. He’s got good footwork and is smooth with his combos. Carwin is by far the hardest puncher in MMA [and that’s a fact] but he’s almost mechanical with his movements. It’s like the difference between Ali and Foreman [I’m just using that as a comparison. Calm down Irish].[/quote]

I have heard from many high level wrestling “insiders” that Brocks skill and technique have never been THAT good. he was not offered scholarships to any major schools coming out of highschool. It was his freakish size, speed, and athleticism that got him to the top of the NCAA wrestling game. If you get a chance, google the final between him and the guy who beat him for the national championship the first time Brock competed for it. cant remember his name, but his opponent went on to be an multple all pro tackle for the new england patriots. the guy is a fucking beast, but compared to Brock on the mat he looked soft, slow and “weak”.

I think I heard somebody say that he could do a standing back flip weighing over 290lbs.

correct me if i am wrong, but at the NCAA wrestling championships, there is no 265lb weight limit, did not Brock wrestle at around 290 in college?

Point I am trying to make is that by his own admission Brock is not as strong as he was when he was in his early 20’s, it does not surprise me that some of the high level wrestlers in the UFC can stuff some of his take-downs, as he is not as big and strong and fast as he was when he was a competitive wrestler, and elite level “technique” has never been his strong-point.

I saw a guy fight for the Bellator welterweight championships last night, he was on the 2004 olympic wrestling team, now THAT guy had some unreal wrestling skill. he did not look to be near the physical specimen (for his size) that Brock was/is, but he never missed a takedown, even when his opponent(who looked much bigger and more athletic btw) defended perfectly, he still got the take-down and finished in the mount.

not sure any of that made sense to anyone but me…fuck it I’m posting it anyway! lol[/quote]

I said this months ago and was attacked.

Steve Neil is a beast- won worlds and then played pro football- after not playing in college.

Ben Askren is also a beast
Make it Funky.
His funky crazy style is so unorthodox Kid went straight to US and World teams
straight from college this kid is amazing.
He was a ‘training partner’ for another world team member
which is actually a titled position and a Huge deal

There is a great college match with him and Johnny Hendricks another super wrestler turned MMA

those kind of jumps in competition- Im not sure if people reading this realize how big a jump it is from NCAA to the rest of the world and what the difference is with these kinds of guys
and guys who excel but only go as far as say big ten or All american.
( which is pretty fucking far)

Brock what to say-?

He is a freak athlete, who has been able to make his attributes work for him.
and they worked for the most part.
competing at the top - that isn’t enough.

His college wrestling- I have already spoke on that many times-
he is a better ground wrestler- not grappler, his top riding is excellent
and in college his escapes and reversals very effective.
His take downs rudimentary at best- Ive’ also said for his size speed- do they need to be any better?
For MMA- yes.

As for his training camp this really is a team sport more on that in a sec.
From Frank Shamrock to BJ Penn to Carlos Newton , Tito Ortiz, Chuck Lidell , Matt Hughes, Brock

these are all fighters who train in camps revolving around them and never ever compete to their potential or never evolve.
or who have bullshit trainers who only seem to have one good fighter in their stable.

they might bring in good sparring partners, but its ego driven
surrounded by friends who blow smoke up their ass.

lots of mid tier fighters joined up with bigger camps - or more solid camps
and showed marked improvement as soon as they are training with better partners.
why train anywhere where you are the ‘best’ what is the point.

as for it being a team sport.
It took me too long to figure it out.

without being cliched I wont say your only as good as your team mates
but there is some truth to that.

back in time- I got to train with the 1992 greco team just prior to the olympics-
the most successful US team both in freestyle and Greco.

while not a ‘training partner’ I was invited - to help get people ready.
I got to play and roll with the big dogs or in my case the 55kg kids.

got to compete a bit internationally- but that is as far as I got…
red shirts- age, injuries and just not being good enough

good enough to be in the room.
not good enough for any of the big shows.

the point is- I did more for the guys getting ready then the work did for me
yes I got better- but I was just another guy adding some depth to someone else training.

that is the where the team element comes in.
isn’t it important to provide that for your partners?

that you need a stable of people who are as good or better then you at something
and that is not available in the smaller camps, and def not available in the camps driven by a single athlete- its like they are training with out any plan- or anyone able to make out a plan
other then having some ‘cool’ or ‘crazy’ conditioning.

I guess this is old fart rambling day.

[/quote]

keep rambling grandpa…this is perhaps the best post in this thread.

176

kmcnyc’s posts have to be the #1 reason to read the combat forum.

Wrestling fascinates me the level of work ethic, mental toughness and athleticism it builds is amazing. the couple strongman competitors I know that where wrestlers are always impressive.

I really wish I would have done it in high school.

177

I “wrestled” for one year in high school. I sucked, did not get a chance to compete, and they canceled the program the next year. my nephew is a stud 119lb wrestler who has a chance to go to states this year as a junior, and coaches are already saying he has a good shot at a scholarship if he can work on his grades.

I agree with he above post…wrestlers are impressive athletes and Kmcnyc is a great contributor to this forum and the entire site IMHO.

178

off topic for Kmcnyc:

the few greco matches i have seen my nephew compete in were by far more fun to watch than his freestyle matches. is that across the board, do you agree that greco is more “watchable” to the non-wrestling hardcore fan?

179

Thanks people…

I, I am very surprised

so to get to the segway.

I like to talk about stuff- waxing all nostalgic and some of the more dedicated wrestling forums
like flo-wrestling or judo forum get a little boring. the MMA forums well you know what can happen there.
that and I’m not into other sports or cars or game or shit like that.

truth be told I would coach more but its hurts to be around stuff like this when you cant do it anymore.
talking is easier then being close to something you love.
I really cant’ roll/wrestle train now for anything like that- right now its just bodyweight stuff-
kind of busy with life and a busted up neck.

and for the record, I sucked thru HS and sucked a little less in college
but was around and did the work. that is what can happen to the kid who goes to every session and busts ass.
and took advantage of lots of opportunities.
its a bitter sweet sport- emotions run high when you put in that kind of effort

turning that into your personal life - and your professional life is something
that helps me try to kick ass there too.

there is some shit that isn’t all nostalgic- getting on a scale 5 times a day for like 10 years does things to a person. lots of tears too. that’s another diatribe though.

Greco is the shit.
do I go further?

for a change the Olympic rules have destroyed some aspects of Greco-Roman
don’t get me started on clinching timed rules.
but yes for the most part it is more watchable.

Obviously the big difference is not attacking the legs at all.
No trips, no leg attack either for take downs or for turning someone.

so less bullshit take downs, or endless sprawl stalemates

its all about the body lock , big lifts and big throws

Taking that grappling element out of if makes it ‘faster’ and yes more watchable.

and the top and partier ( down ) postition are de-emphasized too

they exist only for a timed interval- 10 or 15 seconds and scoring there is pretty low in value too.

when your a kid- you start with this ridicules stance that is so low-
your shots are faster and your hands are on the ground

you get bigger older and you start to have a less severe stance

John and Leroy Smith- have this style and stance and made it work for them.
for years I used something similar - low singles being my favorite,

til I remembered that I like Judo and did a bunch of that as a kid.

in college my coach(es) pointed out kindly that for a tiny dude I am shit slow-
that I lack the hyper speed you so often see with the 55kg and down crowd

I was also kind of a big kid for 125 or so- big hands , strong enough, and slow
made the choice to switch it up to Greco.

not that greco is slow- but when your constantly loosing the initiative or
getting beat to be first - you got to work with what you got.

sorry to break up the brocktober fest.

180

haha, no worries k…please come visit in the old farts forum more often…:wink: