On a side note: is anybody in the McLean, VA area (seems like it’s not too far from DC) going to be watching the fight? I’m down there for a conference this weekend, so it would be cool if there’s any T-Nationers in the area who are already watching the fight at a bar or whatever.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^ Dude, the guy’s completely overrated. He’s beaten a few small HW’s, was losing to CroCop in the first round when inexplicably CroCop decided to stop fighting, went the distance with fat shit Nelson, etc… His power is way overrated and there isn’t much else to his game. He wants no part of the bigger, stronger HW’s out there.[/quote]
Mirko Cro Cop isn’t exactly easy to finish and Nelson is a solid fighter. [/quote]
He didn’t finish CroCop. CroCop stopped due to a cut on his eye lid. And, if CroCop had followed up in the 1st round after wobbling JDS with one shot instead of just stop fighting we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Pretty sure CroCop threw that fight. I’m pretty sure CroCop has thrown several of his fights lately. No one goes from what he was to what he is. Age doesn’t do that, and he’d been ko’d a couple of times before so I don’t believe the Gonzaga ko took the fight out of him.[/quote]
Cro Cop has a case if “I don’t give a shit anymore” If that was Pride Mirko Mir and JDS would lose and so would the “new class” of HW’s in the division. And to The Shiznit KO power is not a skill. Skill is a learned capacity you dope. Lesnar’s size and certain fighters ko power are intagnibles.[/quote]
I’m not sure about KO power per se (debate continues on whether it is something you’re born with etc), but I think what Shiznit was saying (as I was) was that having power, strength, speed, etc (physical attributes that contribute to a fight) is a ‘skill’, in the capacity that they are things that contribute positively to performance that have to be attained. An example: squatting properly and regularly teaches your legs to be strong.
I understand the confusion though, it’s just semantics in this case.
I don’t agree that Crocop threw the JDS fight (I didn’t see the first round performance Whiteflash talked about.) I think he burned out mentally, and all the evidence points to this. He has said numerous times that he would have retired had he not won the 2006 Grand Prix.
The guy has been fighting and training since his teens. It had to happen eventually.
Brock is stronger, better wrestling skill, just as fast and mobile as cain.
Since his last fight is alot leaner, and im sure since then has improved in:endurance, ground skills, stand up, and tactics. Brock is a beast and has fought some tough SOBs.
Cain is fast but his experience is has beens and his ground skills sub-par Brocks and his only chance is to avoid getting to the ground, which will be very hard with a guy like brock on your nuts looking for the oppurtunity to get to the floor.
plus his goal is to be (and he is) a viking gladiator.
Maybe we’ll see some rug burn with that beard all over Cains face
Did y’all see the preview? At the end Lesnar said “After I whup you ass I’ll drink a Corona and eat a burrito to celebrate your Mexican heritage.” I don’t really like the guy but that had me rolling.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Did y’all see the preview? At the end Lesnar said “After I whup you ass I’ll drink a Corona and eat a burrito to celebrate your Mexican heritage.” I don’t really like the guy but that had me rolling.[/quote]
I liked that alot. Maybe Brock is back to his cocky son of a bitch attitude… maybe he’s not gonna be as timid as the Carwin fight. I can’t wait.
I hope he comes out like a bull and just knocks Cain’s head off… or slams him into the ground and then knocks his head off… either. 
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Did y’all see the preview? At the end Lesnar said “After I whup you ass I’ll drink a Corona and eat a burrito to celebrate your Mexican heritage.” I don’t really like the guy but that had me rolling.[/quote]
I liked that alot. Maybe Brock is back to his cocky son of a bitch attitude… maybe he’s not gonna be as timid as the Carwin fight. I can’t wait.
I hope he comes out like a bull and just knocks Cain’s head off… or slams him into the ground and then knocks his head off… either. :D[/quote]
I think its more that he was scared of carwin… but hes not scared of velasquez
and you know this b cuz?
You guys are all noobs! haha
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
and you know this b cuz?[/quote]
Pur3 a$$umption… be cuz 1 f3lt lik3 it
Come on guys, any final comments before the fight tonight? Anyone changing their minds?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Come on guys, any final comments before the fight tonight? Anyone changing their minds? [/quote]
i just looked at the weigh-in pics, and Brock and Cain don’t even look like they’re within 2 weight classes. and he didn’t even cut weight, either…scary.
i’m stickin with Brock for the “W,” but i do think that this fight will bring out the best in each of them. and i don’t think that this will be the last time these guys fight, either…
i suspect Shields will eek out a decision, but i could see Kampman getting a TKO if he can keep it standing. same for the Thiago-Sanchez fight.
hopefull Hamill’s “soft head” will stand up to Tito…i can see Hamill winning by a decision.
Schuab will prolly get stomped by Gonzaga, and hopefully realize just because he trains with Carwin, he’s not Carwin.
the rest…who knows? at least Lawlor will try to be entertaining…
I still feel Carwin’s the only guy who can beat Lesnar [at least right now], but Velasquez pulling off the upset wouldn’t be too shocking. Don’t think it’s gonna happen though. I will say that when Lesnar loses the title I don’t think he’ll ever get it back.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Come on guys, any final comments before the fight tonight? Anyone changing their minds? [/quote]
I’m still betting on Lesnar for the win… I saw a sport science thing on ESPN and supposedly Cain has the strongest punch they ever recorded on the show. But meh. I just don’t know if I buy that. I bet Carwin throws a stronger hook than Cain…
I don’t like Schaub… and I’d like Gonzaga to make an example of him.
I’d like it if Martin beat Shields… but Shields I can see a lay n’ pray decision win for Shields.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I still feel Carwin’s the only guy who can beat Lesnar [at least right now], but Velasquez pulling off the upset wouldn’t be too shocking. Don’t think it’s gonna happen though. I will say that when Lesnar loses the title I don’t think he’ll ever get it back.[/quote]
Why do you think he’d never get it back?
Not calling you out - I’d just like to hear why you feel that way.
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Come on guys, any final comments before the fight tonight? Anyone changing their minds? [/quote]
I’m still betting on Lesnar for the win… I saw a sport science thing on ESPN and supposedly Cain has the strongest punch they ever recorded on the show. But meh. I just don’t know if I buy that. I bet Carwin throws a stronger hook than Cain…
I don’t like Schaub… and I’d like Gonzaga to make an example of him.
I’d like it if Martin beat Shields… but Shields I can see a lay n’ pray decision win for Shields.[/quote]
You wouldn’t have to bet. Carwin clearly throws a harder punch. Carwin ko’s people with one shot, Velasquez doesn’t. Story’s over.
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I still feel Carwin’s the only guy who can beat Lesnar [at least right now], but Velasquez pulling off the upset wouldn’t be too shocking. Don’t think it’s gonna happen though. I will say that when Lesnar loses the title I don’t think he’ll ever get it back.[/quote]
Why do you think he’d never get it back?
Not calling you out - I’d just like to hear why you feel that way.[/quote]
Lesnar’s strengths are obvious: Size, strength, fantastic wrestler, conditioning freak, etc… Right now it’s been enough to keep him at the top. But, Carwin exposed him. All the Lesnar lovers will point out [rightfully so] that Lesnar won. But I feel more like Carwin lost it than Lesnar won it. Lesnar’s been exposed. If Carwin had reeled it in realizing he wasn’t connecting when Lesnar was on his ass we’d be talking about Carwin/Velasquez for the title. I’m not sure Velasquez is big enough or has enough power to take it, but once there’s someone who is [Carwin] that person will stay at the top. Lesnar’s weaknesses are pretty glaring, and so far his strengths have been enough to nullify 'em. That won’t last, and when it’s exposed his reign is over.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Come on guys, any final comments before the fight tonight? Anyone changing their minds? [/quote]
I’m still betting on Lesnar for the win… I saw a sport science thing on ESPN and supposedly Cain has the strongest punch they ever recorded on the show. But meh. I just don’t know if I buy that. I bet Carwin throws a stronger hook than Cain…
I don’t like Schaub… and I’d like Gonzaga to make an example of him.
I’d like it if Martin beat Shields… but Shields I can see a lay n’ pray decision win for Shields.[/quote]
You wouldn’t have to bet. Carwin clearly throws a harder punch. Carwin ko’s people with one shot, Velasquez doesn’t. Story’s over.
[/quote]
It’s pretty clear that Velasquez does not hit as hard as Carwin. As I’ve already said if Lesnar can stand the Carwin storm I don’t see what Velasquez brings to the table. One final point on Velasquez’s conditioning. They say he’s the best conditioned HW, but he’s not had to deal with anyone of Lesnar’s size. As all of you know who have grappled the bigger the guy you have to deal with the more it takes out of you.
If Velasquez can’t KO Lesnar how does he win? I don’t see him staying away long enough to out point him. I’m sticking to my earlier prediction, unless someone can convince me otherwise and I doubt that will happen. The entire bundle is going on Lesnar to win - and I predict it will be with in the first 3 rounds.
Looking forward to tonights card.
Ortiz vs. Hamill- I don’t see Hamill getting his head into this fight. He has the skills to beat Tito but I doubt he will. It’s almost like fighting a mentor of sorts. Deep down he doesn’t think he can beat him and therefore he won’t. I could be wrong but I just don’t see it happening.
I’ll pick Shields to win. He was impressive vs Henderson. If the same guy shows up he’ll win.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I still feel Carwin’s the only guy who can beat Lesnar [at least right now], but Velasquez pulling off the upset wouldn’t be too shocking. Don’t think it’s gonna happen though. I will say that when Lesnar loses the title I don’t think he’ll ever get it back.[/quote]
Agree with the 1st and 2nd points. Carwin, once he gets his cardio in order, is at the top of the heap. Even if Velasquez does get the title, he can’t beat an in-shape Carwin. Can’t take him down, and can’t take a punch from him.
i like lesnar, kampmann, hammil, and jon madsen to win…i dunno, i just feel like kampmann has the kind of skillset that should give shields problems even we’ve seen shields grind guys for3 rounds before…id also like to see tom lawlor win, but cote’s a pretty tough guy to get to the ground
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I still feel Carwin’s the only guy who can beat Lesnar [at least right now], but Velasquez pulling off the upset wouldn’t be too shocking. Don’t think it’s gonna happen though. I will say that when Lesnar loses the title I don’t think he’ll ever get it back.[/quote]
Why do you think he’d never get it back?
Not calling you out - I’d just like to hear why you feel that way.[/quote]
Lesnar’s strengths are obvious: Size, strength, fantastic wrestler, conditioning freak, etc… Right now it’s been enough to keep him at the top. But, Carwin exposed him. All the Lesnar lovers will point out [rightfully so] that Lesnar won. But I feel more like Carwin lost it than Lesnar won it. Lesnar’s been exposed. If Carwin had reeled it in realizing he wasn’t connecting when Lesnar was on his ass we’d be talking about Carwin/Velasquez for the title. I’m not sure Velasquez is big enough or has enough power to take it, but once there’s someone who is [Carwin] that person will stay at the top. Lesnar’s weaknesses are pretty glaring, and so far his strengths have been enough to nullify 'em. That won’t last, and when it’s exposed his reign is over.[/quote]
You make some nice points, whiteflash.
What do you think about the role his sickness played in his last performance , though?
Also, do you think Lesnar can vastly improve his skill set?