http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2011/1229/546778/alistair-overeem/
Seems a little ridiculous, hopefully it has little effect on Overeem’s preparation.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2011/1229/546778/alistair-overeem/
Seems a little ridiculous, hopefully it has little effect on Overeem’s preparation. [/quote]
Interesting.
I am a little unclear about exactly what Lesnar’s Camp is made up of exactely. He has “Death Clutch” which seems to be run by Lesnar himself, with his one head trainer who doesn’t seem to be able to boss Lesnar around. He brings in Paulson, but I find it really difficult to believe Erik Paulson wouldn’t have found a way to bring Brock’s stand up game to at least a “cover, jab, and shoot takedowns” level of competence.
Between Brock’s health issues and his unwillingness in the past to work on his weaknesses and Overeem’s mother/drug testing/broken training camp is this fight going to be more about who suffered less as opposed to who is better?
I still think it is a toss up. Originally because of styles, but now also because of all the distractions on both sides.
Regards,
Robert A
OVEREEM OVEREEM OVEREEM!
Heres the weigh in video.
Overeem weighs in at what i believe is an all time high for him, 261. Lesnar at 266 but not looking as full as he did when he made his ufc debut. Lesnar immediately storms out after weighing in, for a guy who loves the camera and that microphone, this seemed odd to me. Reem seems extremely confident, Lesnar either seems very focused or nervous.
Can not wait for Cerrone/Diaz. After the cowboy hat fiasco last night and now the weigh ins today, you can tell these guys are out for blood.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]humble wrote:
meh, there isn’t a way on earth except by accident that Brock wins… no way.
Alistair has some of the best take down defence in MMA. Recently at the uber heavy weight he is at, how many times have you seen him taken down?
[/quote]
How many 265 lb Division 1 National Champion wrestlers has he faced at his Uber heavy weight though? You can’t compare the takedowns of someone like Werdum or Todd Duffee to those of Brock’s, just like you couldn’t compare the takedowns of someone like Thales Leites or Demian Maia with those of Chael Sonnen. They might all be grapplers, but only Lesnar and Sonnen are world class wrestlers.
Overeem has yet to face any elite level wreslers in the HW division, let alone any who are actually bigger and stronger than him. So I don’t think you can fairly gauge how he’ll do TDD wise against Brock by how he’s done so far.
No way he rag dolls Brock (if Brock is healthy), let’s just be serious, unless maybe he hurts him first.
If Brock chooses to stand with him I agree Reem will smash his face and stalk him.
If Reem tries to knee Brock on his TD attempts, he had better hope that he lands it clean, because otherwise that’s just going to put him on one leg and make the TD easier to finish. I do agree though that Lesnar has left much to be desired in terms of setting up his TD’s (in comparison to someone like GSP, Edgar, Randy or Cruz) in the past, so he could get caught and KO’d with a knee. [/quote]
While I agree with the bulk of your points, there is one thing that sticks out. I was under the impression that Brock was NOT a world class wrestler. He was elite in college, but to be realistic he hadn’t trained at that level for years before starting MMA. That puts him some way off from a guy like Sonnen who has decent credentials (two time silver at an international tourney I believe), Lindland (silver at the Olympics), Randy (Oly alternate) or Shalarous.
As far as his wrestling ability, I’m of the opinion they’re overrated. He gets takedowns off a bullrush most of the time (Cain, Herring, Mir), doesn’t setup his takedowns like a GSP or Rashad, but does show good work in the clinch and of course, has masterful top control.
has no one - spoke on the saga of reems urine test.
kind of says volumes that it took 28 days from being asked
for him to give a legit sample
strangely enough one interesting point about diverticulitis
lots of good reading out there on how steroids or other anabolic agents
can promote it and or the perforation of the intestines
someone at 30 ish should not be manifesting those symptoms-
certainly not someone who is a super athlete- unless they have
severe health issues.
this is kind of a silly pairing-
more hype then content.
to speak on Sento’s post
Reem has not faced anyone with take downs anything like Lesnars.
nor power blah blah blah
that being said, I dont think his takedowns or wrestling is exceptional-
when you can carry that much mass +speed+power they dont have to be that great to work
He is a good wrestler- I have spoken at length as to why discounting the HW NCAA division
is fair game- its shallow to say the least.
one place where I will say Lesnar is great wrestling wise- is using his athletic gifts.
Rundy Has a point about his ‘world class’ I dont really like that quote and not to pick on Sento-
but Lesnar never competed in the international arena- nor trained for it
Huge difference
Steve Neal - beat him in 1999 NCAA finals then won worlds freestyle
big diffrence.
heavy weights are big and dangerous-
it is sometimes about being first-
or being big and strong
Mir - in trouble gets a crazy sub
dosantos- gets off on cain first.
it doesnt take much - when fighters are that big
sad to say but true.
as for this fight-
Lesnar has little activity- and a long layoff
bad health and little heart.
and a questionable camp at best.
Reem - looked like ass- against the only legit top 5 HW
he faced ever?
I think its about who gets off first.
how much more complicated is it
As if Overeem’s preparation for this fight wasnt already fucked up enough, now he finds out today he’s being sued.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
has no one - spoke on the saga of reems urine test.
kind of says volumes that it took 28 days from being asked
for him to give a legit sample
strangely enough one interesting point about diverticulitis
lots of good reading out there on how steroids or other anabolic agents
can promote it and or the perforation of the intestines
someone at 30 ish should not be manifesting those symptoms-
certainly not someone who is a super athlete- unless they have
severe health issues.
this is kind of a silly pairing-
more hype then content.
to speak on Sento’s post
Reem has not faced anyone with take downs anything like Lesnars.
nor power blah blah blah
that being said, I dont think his takedowns or wrestling is exceptional-
when you can carry that much mass +speed+power they dont have to be that great to work
He is a good wrestler- I have spoken at length as to why discounting the HW NCAA division
is fair game- its shallow to say the least.
one place where I will say Lesnar is great wrestling wise- is using his athletic gifts.
Rundy Has a point about his ‘world class’ I dont really like that quote and not to pick on Sento-
but Lesnar never competed in the international arena- nor trained for it
Huge difference
Steve Neal - beat him in 1999 NCAA finals then won worlds freestyle
big diffrence.
heavy weights are big and dangerous-
it is sometimes about being first-
or being big and strong
Mir - in trouble gets a crazy sub
dosantos- gets off on cain first.
it doesnt take much - when fighters are that big
sad to say but true.
as for this fight-
Lesnar has little activity- and a long layoff
bad health and little heart.
and a questionable camp at best.
Reem - looked like ass- against the only legit top 5 HW
he faced ever?
I think its about who gets off first.
how much more complicated is it
[/quote]
As far as the issue with Overeem submitting a proper urine sample for the drug test goes, i dont think this is an issue of concern. The commission is usually pretty damn strict, if he had an excuse good enough for them to let him submit the test late, then its good enough for me.
On that note, as with any professional sport, there are plenty of athletes who are “on” something and dont get popped, as long as he’s passing tests (which he always has) i dont think its an issue.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]humble wrote:
meh, there isn’t a way on earth except by accident that Brock wins… no way.
Alistair has some of the best take down defence in MMA. Recently at the uber heavy weight he is at, how many times have you seen him taken down?
[/quote]
How many 265 lb Division 1 National Champion wrestlers has he faced at his Uber heavy weight though? You can’t compare the takedowns of someone like Werdum or Todd Duffee to those of Brock’s, just like you couldn’t compare the takedowns of someone like Thales Leites or Demian Maia with those of Chael Sonnen. They might all be grapplers, but only Lesnar and Sonnen are world class wrestlers.
Overeem has yet to face any elite level wreslers in the HW division, let alone any who are actually bigger and stronger than him. So I don’t think you can fairly gauge how he’ll do TDD wise against Brock by how he’s done so far.
No way he rag dolls Brock (if Brock is healthy), let’s just be serious, unless maybe he hurts him first.
If Brock chooses to stand with him I agree Reem will smash his face and stalk him.
If Reem tries to knee Brock on his TD attempts, he had better hope that he lands it clean, because otherwise that’s just going to put him on one leg and make the TD easier to finish. I do agree though that Lesnar has left much to be desired in terms of setting up his TD’s (in comparison to someone like GSP, Edgar, Randy or Cruz) in the past, so he could get caught and KO’d with a knee. [/quote]
If you think Lesnars wrestling is that great, then we have nothing more to discuss and shall see on fight night I guess.
I personally don’t rate it at all. Looks like a scared schoolyard kid who has bitten off more than he can chew and then in a freak of amazement when he get’s into a dominant position has an epileptic fit and rushes to finish the fight without any iota of what he is doing, hammering away like the complete amateur he is. At some point, size does play into ones ability to beat other fighters but is he better than Randy, Mir, Herring even though he beat them? No way. If you think that, then again, nothing more to say.
Is he a better fighter than Overeem -(and this has nothing to do with being a MUay Thai/kickboxing supporter)-not in a million years. Overeem said it best, he has 10 times the fights that Brock has and even if Brock wins, it will be by accident or the like.
Does anyone know any website or blogspots that stream the fights live for free?
I wouldn’t go that far. Lesnar has skills. His scrambling ability and top control are fantastic.
Mir isn’t better. Mir got his ass beat twice and pulled off a sub once. Mir lost the second time because his half guard got stifled. It wasn’t just Lesnar weighing 30lbs more. It was also Lesnar pulling off really good technique: chest-to-chest pressure, good balance, wrist/arm/head control.
Herring isn’t better. That was a case of a superior top player/wrestler dominating a guy without a bottom game to match. You need more than size to do that. I’ve grappled with Div 1 wrestlers in nogi tourneys at the intermediate level. There is a large difference between their top turtle game, and an average blue/purple. They may not sink their hooks in, but the control is something-else.
Randy was better IMO, but that was a 50lb difference.
He’s not a fighting prodigy by any means, but let’s not exaggerate things. Mariusz Pudz is an amateur. Bob Sapp is an amateur. Bobby Lashley is an amateur. Brock isn’t. You don’t beat Mir and Herring without skills. You don’t survive a mauling for one round by Shane fucking Carwin (the fucking signifies pre-diet Shane) and come out to beat him the next round, without some heart. And you don’t come back after a 14 month layoff against a giant like Reem without some balls.
That said, I think Reem is going to win. I won’t be rooting for him though. I like underdogs.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
diverticulitis
lots of good reading out there on how steroids or other anabolic agents
can promote it [/quote]
sorry, but no. the kind of steroids the MD’s are talking about are NOT ANABOLIC steroids.
The results indicating steroids come from research where the mean age of patients was 65 years old. Those men do not take anabolic steroids, they take a host of steroids to deal with other issues.
This is akin to the Chris Benoit case where doctors also shot their mouth off about something they know dick about. Benoit was found to have Xanax, hydrocodone, and an elevated level of testosterone, caused by a synthetic form of the hormone, in his system.
They blamed the fact he killed his wife and son, before killing himself, on the synthetic hormone in his system, because, of course, it was roid rage that made him do it. Dozens of doctors were interviewed on tv parroting this crap.
Dozens of arm chair physicians, wanting to see their name on the interwebz are doing the same in regards to Lesnar as well.
Benoit went nuts because he suffered from severe depression and used Xanax which can cause suicidal thoughts and hydrocodone, which can cause hallucinations. Now look up the side effects of steroids, anabolic steroids and NOWHERE do you see anything remotely indicating psychotic episodes OR causing diverticulitis.
Lesnar might be juiced to the neck, no issue with that at all, might have been since he was 16, doesn’t matter either but it did NOT cause diverticulitis and ANABOLIC steroids do not mask it either. It is very rare a young man gets it, granted, but not impossible. It is caused by feces getting trapped, that’s all. They don’t even know why some people develop it and why some don’t.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
[/quote]
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
[
[/quote]
Wait a minute you don’t believe that Steroids modifies a persons behavior ? Really…
Now add in a anti-suppresant plus Hydrcodone quite possible that is a very bad cocktail.
On Brock’s Intestine problems: How about Growth Hormone contributing to it ever think along those lines?
See funny thing is with modern medicine is what happens when a bunch of stuff is mixed together we don’t really know because it is not studied.
Sidenote: painkillers (lrg doses) cause constipation and a lot of WWE are are on pain medicine. Just thinking out loud.
I didnt say they cause it-
I say they can promote it.
as for benoit- I think that is a far fetched analogy
Benoit was on plenty of drugs.
Plenty.
I think its more about how some anabolic agents can change cholesterol levels
and increase toxins in the intestine and put stress on the endocrine system
in some.
Im no steroid guru and clearly there is alot of junk on the interweb
just my two cents- having played D1 sports and class work
and some very basic research.
thanks for helping out with my knee jerk soap boxing
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Havent seen any discussion for this on here, so not sure if there’s much interest but here goes.
Been tons of buzz and debate about this fight going around the internet lately, i want to hear some thoughts on how this one plays out.
This is a not a fight i would bet on, just too many variables and interesting circumstances surrounding these two guys squaring off against eachother, especially with it being Overeem’s first fight in the UFC. However, i have to pick Overeem. I just cant see Brock being able to hold overeem down and finish him before Reem inevitably lands that huge punch or knee that turns the lights out.
Obviously Brock’s defense is lackluster and i believe Reem will find the mark eventually. The other thing that all the sherdog warriors seem to be completely leaving out is the fact that Overeem is not just a kickboxer, but also a very competent grappler in his own right, with good TD’s and TDD. And that was BEFORE he became Ubereem.
If Brock had a hard time holding Cain or Couture down and couldnt do any damage to them on the ground, i dont see him steam rolling Overeem either.
However, if Overeem plays it safe too much like in the Werdum fight, i wont be surprised to see brock take a decision.
I also have Cerrone cleaning Diaz’s clock[/quote]
Too big,fat steroid-heads trying to overpower each other-WHO cares?!
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Havent seen any discussion for this on here, so not sure if there’s much interest but here goes.
Been tons of buzz and debate about this fight going around the internet lately, i want to hear some thoughts on how this one plays out.
This is a not a fight i would bet on, just too many variables and interesting circumstances surrounding these two guys squaring off against eachother, especially with it being Overeem’s first fight in the UFC. However, i have to pick Overeem. I just cant see Brock being able to hold overeem down and finish him before Reem inevitably lands that huge punch or knee that turns the lights out.
Obviously Brock’s defense is lackluster and i believe Reem will find the mark eventually. The other thing that all the sherdog warriors seem to be completely leaving out is the fact that Overeem is not just a kickboxer, but also a very competent grappler in his own right, with good TD’s and TDD. And that was BEFORE he became Ubereem.
If Brock had a hard time holding Cain or Couture down and couldnt do any damage to them on the ground, i dont see him steam rolling Overeem either.
However, if Overeem plays it safe too much like in the Werdum fight, i wont be surprised to see brock take a decision.
I also have Cerrone cleaning Diaz’s clock[/quote]
Too big,fat steroid-heads trying to overpower each other-WHO cares?![/quote]
Looking at your profile pictures, you’re the last fucking person who should be slandering either of these guys.
Another development : http://mmajunkie.com/news/26755/golden-glory-legal-team-wins-judgement-to-garnish-overeems-ufc-141-wages.mma
Alright, im seriously starting to wonder if all the ridiculous shit concerning Overeem leading up to this fight isn’t going to have some negative effect on him, especially now that his entire purse is going to be held in escrow following the fight. If Overeem is telling the truth about what happened between him and GG (he goes into detail about this in “the Reem” episode 7) then Bas Boon is a fucking crook and good luck ever landing another big name at that camp.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Havent seen any discussion for this on here, so not sure if there’s much interest but here goes.
Been tons of buzz and debate about this fight going around the internet lately, i want to hear some thoughts on how this one plays out.
This is a not a fight i would bet on, just too many variables and interesting circumstances surrounding these two guys squaring off against eachother, especially with it being Overeem’s first fight in the UFC. However, i have to pick Overeem. I just cant see Brock being able to hold overeem down and finish him before Reem inevitably lands that huge punch or knee that turns the lights out.
Obviously Brock’s defense is lackluster and i believe Reem will find the mark eventually. The other thing that all the sherdog warriors seem to be completely leaving out is the fact that Overeem is not just a kickboxer, but also a very competent grappler in his own right, with good TD’s and TDD. And that was BEFORE he became Ubereem.
If Brock had a hard time holding Cain or Couture down and couldnt do any damage to them on the ground, i dont see him steam rolling Overeem either.
However, if Overeem plays it safe too much like in the Werdum fight, i wont be surprised to see brock take a decision.
I also have Cerrone cleaning Diaz’s clock[/quote]
Too big,fat steroid-heads trying to overpower each other-WHO cares?![/quote]
Looking at your profile pictures, you’re the last fucking person who should be slandering either of these guys. [/quote]
Looking at your profile picture,I have no doubt that you are too big,fat steroid head.Minus the skills of Lesnar/Overeem.
So you are the one who judges my fighting ability by pictures??!!
Nice try.
I really had no problems whatsoever in evading initial wild attacks of big elephants like yourself and hurting them at will.They rarely had any agility,skills or conditioning to back their big size & even bigger egos.