Lesnar vs Overeem

Training
201

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

If you watch those older fights, how he fithts now is like night and day compared to back then. his skill level is so far superior now. now, he knows how to pace himself. he doesn’t throw tons of punches and kicks. but he picks his shots. when he strikes, he kills. Watch some of his fights leading up to the finals of the K1

Alistair Overeem vs Ben Edwards K-1 - YouTube he hits, he knocks you out. simple. the way he fights, he could fight 20 rounds and not get tired. somebody will have to pressure him and force him to fight more to get him tired. But that could also get you knocked out even faster.[/quote]

Uh yeah…obviously he is a better fighter now. And i would say his conditioning has improved, but no he could not go 20 rounds thats just a retarded thing to say. Not to mention in the Ben Edwards fight he didnt have to do shit except stalk and throw a few hooks.
[/quote]

dude, why you getting hostile. when i said 20 rounds, obviously i was just making a statement. maybe your just a tad upset cause your prediction of cerrone beating diaz turned out to be “retarded” remember me telling you, not to ever overlook diaz and that diaz would surprise you. remember???

202

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

Who knows, He’s obviously grown as a person (both literally and figuratively) and a fighter, and the guy carries himself with more confidence and professionalism than anyone else in the sport. I really do think that he’s just one of those rare examples of guys who everyone says has a ton of potential and then actually does realize it after years in the sport. Same with Anderson Silva. [/quote]

Heres whats gets me, he predicted at the press conferences, at the weigh ins, that he would knock brock out within 2 rounds, most likely the 1st. Imagine if he lost. he would have to suffer and eat his words. not to mention, his website and webcast “the reem” is really popular, that would have to show him losing. This is probably the most confident i have ever seen a fighter. only one close, was jon jones in his last fight against machida. Overream just had that, there is no way on earth he was going to lose. he said it best. his training gave him the confidence. He brought in Jarred Rosholtd, one of the best heavyweight wrestlers around, and from what overream said, this guy couldn’t get him down. and brock wrestled 12 years ago. no wonder overream was so confidence.

I suspect he will be just as confidence against dos santos. [/quote]

Yes, he is very confident. That doesnt mean you absolutely must be the best if you’re that confident. Cerrone talked a lot of shit before the Diaz fight, and he was the first too admit (about 5 times) in the post fight press conference that Diaz made him eat his words.

BJ Penn anyone? Doesn’t get any more confident than that, which some may even argue is what has held him back in many of his fights.

Every point you make you act like its a definitive fact and must be taken as truth. At the end of the day it’s all subjective. [/quote]

im sensing anger from you. I never said, him being confident makes him the best. and i was just expressing my opinion. for me, he seemed extremely confident. when was the last time you heard a ufc fighter predicting a 1st round KO? I’m sure its happened. But its rare. everyone says they will win. But very very few predict a ko in the 1st round.

The cerrone thing really eats at you huh, bhahahaahahah. Don’t worry, you were among many that thought cerrone was going to kill diaz, all except me.

203

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war. [/quote]

I dont think Overeem ever really let his guard down against Brock. I’ve watched that fight several times now and he never really got “caught” i think he just got grazed by the corner of the glove more than anything and that’s what caused the cut.

Also, that’ll be the day when JDS actually sets up his power punches with jabs. [/quote]

Yes, I agree with the cut. However, I’d like you to go watch the fight again and check both fighters’ guard. Overeem had his guard down most of the time. Lesnar had a better guard. Meh, didn’t save him against the beast’s knees though, ehehe…

And won’t you agree that Overeem came at Lesnar a few times with open arms, no guard up, not preparing for closing the distance? That was quite dangerous. Luckily for him, Brock is shit at striking.
[/quote]

Yes, i do agree, and i think that was completely on purpose. Overeem is too good a striker to make amateur mistakes, his hands were probably low (along with his very low stance) in anticipation of the takedown and i dont believe he would keep his hands that low against someone with more respectable standup. However he was completely right in doing what he did given the results of the fight.

204

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

If you watch those older fights, how he fithts now is like night and day compared to back then. his skill level is so far superior now. now, he knows how to pace himself. he doesn’t throw tons of punches and kicks. but he picks his shots. when he strikes, he kills. Watch some of his fights leading up to the finals of the K1

Alistair Overeem vs Ben Edwards K-1 - YouTube he hits, he knocks you out. simple. the way he fights, he could fight 20 rounds and not get tired. somebody will have to pressure him and force him to fight more to get him tired. But that could also get you knocked out even faster.[/quote]

Uh yeah…obviously he is a better fighter now. And i would say his conditioning has improved, but no he could not go 20 rounds thats just a retarded thing to say. Not to mention in the Ben Edwards fight he didnt have to do shit except stalk and throw a few hooks.
[/quote]

dude, why you getting hostile. when i said 20 rounds, obviously i was just making a statement. maybe your just a tad upset cause your prediction of cerrone beating diaz turned out to be “retarded” remember me telling you, not to ever overlook diaz and that diaz would surprise you. remember???[/quote]

Not getting hostile at all, simply responding to a statement you made in a public forum. Not butt hurt at all about the Cerrone fight either, would have liked to see him win but the only fight i cared for was the Overeem fight and it went exactly as planned. Dont try and parade around here and throw it back at me like you’re some MMA guru because you called a fight right. And dont give yourself so much credit as to think that i would take personal offense to any of your comments.

205

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

Who knows, He’s obviously grown as a person (both literally and figuratively) and a fighter, and the guy carries himself with more confidence and professionalism than anyone else in the sport. I really do think that he’s just one of those rare examples of guys who everyone says has a ton of potential and then actually does realize it after years in the sport. Same with Anderson Silva. [/quote]

Heres whats gets me, he predicted at the press conferences, at the weigh ins, that he would knock brock out within 2 rounds, most likely the 1st. Imagine if he lost. he would have to suffer and eat his words. not to mention, his website and webcast “the reem” is really popular, that would have to show him losing. This is probably the most confident i have ever seen a fighter. only one close, was jon jones in his last fight against machida. Overream just had that, there is no way on earth he was going to lose. he said it best. his training gave him the confidence. He brought in Jarred Rosholtd, one of the best heavyweight wrestlers around, and from what overream said, this guy couldn’t get him down. and brock wrestled 12 years ago. no wonder overream was so confidence.

I suspect he will be just as confidence against dos santos. [/quote]

Yes, he is very confident. That doesnt mean you absolutely must be the best if you’re that confident. Cerrone talked a lot of shit before the Diaz fight, and he was the first too admit (about 5 times) in the post fight press conference that Diaz made him eat his words.

BJ Penn anyone? Doesn’t get any more confident than that, which some may even argue is what has held him back in many of his fights.

Every point you make you act like its a definitive fact and must be taken as truth. At the end of the day it’s all subjective. [/quote]

im sensing anger from you. I never said, him being confident makes him the best. and i was just expressing my opinion. for me, he seemed extremely confident. when was the last time you heard a ufc fighter predicting a 1st round KO? I’m sure its happened. But its rare. everyone says they will win. But very very few predict a ko in the 1st round.

The cerrone thing really eats at you huh, bhahahaahahah. Don’t worry, you were among many that thought cerrone was going to kill diaz, all except me.[/quote]

What are you talking about? You basically stated that because someone might sound foolish if they didnt follow through on those claims, that they must be guaranteed to win or they would never make such bold claims.

No fighter says “I think i might lose this one so we’ll see.” They all predict a win, and 50 percent of them predict wrong. They all have websites, they all get press coverage. Im simply stating, you cant use a fighters confidence as a way to tell if he’s gonna win the fight or not.

I also dont know why you keep reverting back to this Cerrone thing. Did i ever say Cerrone was my favorite fighter or something? To be honest i dislike the lightweight division as whole, i could care less what goes on there. Hell i wouldn’t care if they got rid of it altogether, it’s the most boring division in my opinion.

Again, just debating in a public forum, you really give yourself too much credit regarding the emotional reactions you THINK you are trolling from people.

206

On another note, more good news for Overeem:

http://mmajunkie.com/news/26784/bond-not-deposited-alistair-overeem-receives-full-ufc-141-purse.mma

Glad to hear those crooks at Golden Glory didnt get shit. :smiley:

Also, apparently leading up to the fight Overeem had no idea of the court order lol, so no sweat off his back. Nice fucking payday too, almost 400k

207

Lol, Overeem is on quite the winning streak.

208

[quote]rundymc wrote:
Lol, Overeem is on quite the winning streak.[/quote]

lol yup.

One of the baddest mofos on the planet, tall as fuck, 99% of T-Nation would kill to look like him, has a smoking hot wife, is a millionaire…

Here’s to hoping he has a really small dick or something to even out all the awesomeness.

209

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:
Lol, Overeem is on quite the winning streak.[/quote]

lol yup.

One of the baddest mofos on the planet, tall as fuck, 99% of T-Nation would kill to look like him, has a smoking hot wife, is a millionaire…

Here’s to hoping he has a really small dick or something to even out all the awesomeness. [/quote]

AAS induced hypogonadism

maybe

210

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:
Lol, Overeem is on quite the winning streak.[/quote]

lol yup.

One of the baddest mofos on the planet, tall as fuck, 99% of T-Nation would kill to look like him, has a smoking hot wife, is a millionaire…

Here’s to hoping he has a really small dick or something to even out all the awesomeness. [/quote]

AAS induced hypogonadism

maybe[/quote]

lol

We can only hope

211

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Saying that Lesnar “has a couple years experience” is not necessarily true. The guy was a world class wrestler, which translates pretty well to MMA.

Just sayin’.[/quote]

Bro, you’re usually well versed but this is just american hype machine. He’s not that world class a wrestler… bull rushes dont make you a great wrestler. 265 pounts helps

[/quote]

No, but a division 1 NCAA championship does, as well as more than 100 Div 1 wins with only 5 losses in your collegiate career.

Dont speak on subjects you are completely ignorant of. [/quote]

So Kurt Angle would make an awesome MMA fighter too. No, he prob would, size, steroids, media presence, fan base.

An undefeated record in college is elite, hence why Steve Neal played for the patriots and Brock played for Vince Mcmahnon. I dunno Steve’s record (151-10), but American collegiate athletic are also not the be all end all of wrestling. (neal won an olympic gold). Just go count the Americans who won the Olympic god medal, and you will see very few given this boards adoration of them (honestly I mean mma’s adoration of them, I’m just makin a point)
[/quote]

If you win an american championship, it is impressive. Nobody said even once in this thread that it was the end-all-be-all. You are obviously stuck on some anti-american bullshit based on the last few posts ive seen in this thread. Go fuck yourself. if you have nothing intelligent to put forth, dont say anything at all. [/quote]

You really need to step back a bit. But sometimes people like to have things explained so they can make their own decisions. I bring up Stephen Neal because he beat Brock Lesner in college and succeeded in the NFL, something Brock didn’t do. I bring it up because both these people are elite athletes, but people often like to paint a top level fighter, as Brock was, as a master tactician in their discipline.

There is nothing to indicate Brock lesner was any more talented as a wrestler, nor more exerienced, than many other individual athletes in the world, Bulgaria to China. Brock happened to be freakishly huge thanks to drugs, but not that far above the rest of the known world. It happens that I do not talk to European mma fans, but many American (and Canadian) fans love to trumpet the Brock is an elite wrestler card, when in reality he is just a talented american wrestler with a good pedigree.

But obviously I am a steroid hating fascist/communist/hippie who can’t understand that everyone in this thread already knows that Brock Lesner may not deserve the cult like devotion to his wrestling pedigree that he received.

212

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

That is utter bullshit. I will not deny that pressure and money, maybe marital issues were present. Surely there must be an underlying mental illness. But bottom line steroids are dangerous and pretending they aren’t so we can legalize them to get jacked is fucked up. Lesnar is sicker than he shuold be because of steroids. Benoit was more unstale than he should have been because of steroids (though in both cases, especially benoit, concussions must have played a factor) eddie guererro died from steroids, andre the giant shortened his life from steroids. Lately we are finally seeing how steroids in the NHL are hurting people, and I would easily say steroids damage your brain when dealing with concussions. Steroids are bad, don’t pretend their not you fuckhead. I do not give 2 shits about “research”, because we still think weed causes mania and paranoia and a lack of motivation. In a way, it does, but it in no way makes you lazy as much as alcohol didn’t make you get in a bar fight.

If you are willing to suggest that high levels of steroids and HGH do not cause intestinal and mental issues your fucking retarded[/quote]

What’s with the name calling, little man? Bad day for you? I almost derailed this thread and that was not my intention. Your level of immaturity in your comment is almost sad.

So you admit there is pressure, money troubles, marital issues and a mental issue as well as brain damage (which the autopsy actually showed!) but it is the roidz that made him do it? You contradict yourself can’t you see that? You assume all these things but then blame the roids which have no track record of causing a change in psychological state like meth, pcp, cocaine, heroine, painkillers, brain damage and antidepressants can do for example.

I realize it is not possible to really have a conversation with you because you do not give "2 shits’ about research. You are a young man in college who knows the truth and does not want to be confused by the facts, it seems like.

Anabolic steroids are administered to men, women and children who suffer from immune system deseases like aids so their system is strong enough to deal with the disease! Lesnar is not sicker due to steroids, they don’t work that way. Their side effects don’t work that way.

You seem very passionate about it, and I admire that, name calling or not, but you are wrong and they way you communicated your uneducated opinion will get you nowhere.

I did not say steroids need to be legalized so we can all get jacked, I did not say they are as healthy as an orange either. My point is that steroids are made to be the bad guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. Docs are trying to get their face on tv perpetuating the wrong info. How can you agree with that?

Benoit did not kill his family due to steroids. Lesnar did not get sick due to steroids. Those are the facts if you know anything about steroids. that is all I was trying to point out. Many steroids are indeed bad for you, unless you are ill and the only thing that will help is that steroid. The were not invented for sports initially, they were invented to help victims of extreme trauma (war victims) and children who were malnourished and underdeveloped. They are currently saving lives of burn victims, aids patients and a host of other sick people.

I am not advocating we should all be juiced to the neck, not at all. They are simply not the bad guy they are made out to be.

My apologies to all if you feel I derailed this thread. Did not mean to. I work with people who really need them and have to face constant hurdles due to their use even though it is really benefiting them. [/quote]

hit the nail on the head. Reading his post and then your post back to back, and then seeing his follow up post about people needing to take a rhetoric class is one of the most ironically hilarious things ive read on here in a long time.
[/quote]

I take it you are a scientific expert on the side effects and interactions of steroids and violent blows to the head when combined with a cocktail of drugs and the ever present pressure to maintain an athletic ideal that allows you to compete with other individuals who put their body through a similar set of hurdles.

And obviously I know nothing about steroids, because it is completely unlikely that a person may actually find themselves lashing out when combining all these drugs. And that I advocate complete illegality of steroids. Or, and this is a truthy thing right here, you have 0 reading comprehension skills.

Steroids, in case you can’t read, had a detrimental impact in the lives of any pro athletes. That is literally the entire statement.

213

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
diverticulitis
lots of good reading out there on how steroids or other anabolic agents
can promote it [/quote]

sorry, but no. the kind of steroids the MD’s are talking about are NOT ANABOLIC steroids.
The results indicating steroids come from research where the mean age of patients was 65 years old. Those men do not take anabolic steroids, they take a host of steroids to deal with other issues.

This is akin to the Chris Benoit case where doctors also shot their mouth off about something they know dick about. Benoit was found to have Xanax, hydrocodone, and an elevated level of testosterone, caused by a synthetic form of the hormone, in his system.
They blamed the fact he killed his wife and son, before killing himself, on the synthetic hormone in his system, because, of course, it was roid rage that made him do it. Dozens of doctors were interviewed on tv parroting this crap.

Dozens of arm chair physicians, wanting to see their name on the interwebz are doing the same in regards to Lesnar as well.

Benoit went nuts because he suffered from severe depression and used Xanax which can cause suicidal thoughts and hydrocodone, which can cause hallucinations. Now look up the side effects of steroids, anabolic steroids and NOWHERE do you see anything remotely indicating psychotic episodes OR causing diverticulitis.

Lesnar might be juiced to the neck, no issue with that at all, might have been since he was 16, doesn’t matter either but it did NOT cause diverticulitis and ANABOLIC steroids do not mask it either. It is very rare a young man gets it, granted, but not impossible. It is caused by feces getting trapped, that’s all. They don’t even know why some people develop it and why some don’t.

[/quote]

That is utter bullshit. I will not deny that pressure and money, maybe marital issues were present. Surely there must be an underlying mental illness. But bottom line steroids are dangerous and pretending they aren’t so we can legalize them to get jacked is fucked up. Lesnar is sicker than he shuold be because of steroids. Benoit was more unstale than he should have been because of steroids (though in both cases, especially benoit, concussions must have played a factor) eddie guererro died from steroids, andre the giant shortened his life from steroids. Lately we are finally seeing how steroids in the NHL are hurting people, and I would easily say steroids damage your brain when dealing with concussions. Steroids are bad, don’t pretend their not you fuckhead. I do not give 2 shits about “research”, because we still think weed causes mania and paranoia and a lack of motivation. In a way, it does, but it in no way makes you lazy as much as alcohol didn’t make you get in a bar fight.

If you are willing to suggest that high levels of steroids and HGH do not cause intestinal and mental issues your fucking retarded[/quote]

This is a very poorly thought out and contradictory argument. The painkillers Benoit was on also fucked him, and were legal (prescription?). You talk about steroids being dangerous, then bring up weed and alcohol, one legal, the other prescription in select states.

Come on son. I’ve yet to try this stuff, but I’d like to be respected as an adult enough for me to make decisions regarding my own body.
[/quote]

Annnnnnnnnnndddd

the fact that we have pretty conclusive research on the myriad of ways in which weed isn’t the devils crop and merely a distracting high has not stopped any american official from demonizing it, so research and official designations are hardly worth the money I wouldn’t pay for most perscription meds. This includes tylenol when my future child has a fever, because while I’m not crazy, it isn’t that crazy to wonder if there is a link between tylenol and diabetes, or asthma, is it?

I wish people had to pass a rhetoric class before making any significant life decisions.
[/quote]

I’m a weed supporter as well, but that isn’t the argument. Alcohol hurts your health as well, and is legal.

Steroids isn’t an opiate, or a physically addictive drug. It can be used safely (how many on this site have done so? How many people in your gym, some younger than 21, have done so?). Like all drugs, you can fuck yourself up with them. So sure, they are dangerous. But outright banned? We already put potheads in prison for enjoying a herb, now we’re putting meatheads in there for using/distributing? lol, sounds wasteful.

Onto mental issues. Are you talking about roid rage specifically. If so, you’re misguided. In my gym, there are about 10 guys I know that have been on the stuff (sub 1g/week mostly). I share meals with these people, hit the clubs with them. I’ve never seen any of them overly aggressive sober. The younger ones will start acting like pricks once the booze gets in them, but nothing I haven’t seen countless times with non-steroid users.

If you’re talking about serious mental issues, i.e aggravating a condition that would lead you to kill your family and yourself… come on.
[/quote]

Steroids are dangerous, accept it. Driving is dangerous, lifting is dangerous. Steroids just happen to be injectable. Why are you pretending that there aren’t any risks associated with taking steroids, especially when it is practically a job requirement? I mean, if you gleaned that I am claiming that we shouldn’t do steroids I am not, if you claim that steroids can’t be bad for you ever your wrong. If you take em long enough, pursue your sport high enough, make enough sacrifice you’ll find our what sacrifice actually means.

214

To be clear, what Chris Benoit did to his family was correlated with a problem with drugs and violence, of which steroids was one factor. Steroids have incredibly potent physical effects, yet they can easily be safely used.

215

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

If you watch those older fights, how he fithts now is like night and day compared to back then. his skill level is so far superior now. now, he knows how to pace himself. he doesn’t throw tons of punches and kicks. but he picks his shots. when he strikes, he kills. Watch some of his fights leading up to the finals of the K1

Alistair Overeem vs Ben Edwards K-1 - YouTube he hits, he knocks you out. simple. the way he fights, he could fight 20 rounds and not get tired. somebody will have to pressure him and force him to fight more to get him tired. But that could also get you knocked out even faster.[/quote]

Uh yeah…obviously he is a better fighter now. And i would say his conditioning has improved, but no he could not go 20 rounds thats just a retarded thing to say. Not to mention in the Ben Edwards fight he didnt have to do shit except stalk and throw a few hooks.
[/quote]

dude, why you getting hostile. when i said 20 rounds, obviously i was just making a statement. maybe your just a tad upset cause your prediction of cerrone beating diaz turned out to be “retarded” remember me telling you, not to ever overlook diaz and that diaz would surprise you. remember???[/quote]

Not getting hostile at all, simply responding to a statement you made in a public forum. Not butt hurt at all about the Cerrone fight either, would have liked to see him win but the only fight i cared for was the Overeem fight and it went exactly as planned. Dont try and parade around here and throw it back at me like you’re some MMA guru because you called a fight right. And dont give yourself so much credit as to think that i would take personal offense to any of your comments. [/quote]

Just like you, I’m an mma fan. I love mma. I honestly thought that diaz is one tough son of a bitch, just like his brother. I knew, if diaz got inside cerrone’s kicks, he would eat him up with punches. and he did. I’m starting to think, anyone stands with diaz, they are going to lose. I think henderson and edgar would be much tougher, cause of their wrestling ability. though diaz is dangerous with his submissions, he still has had problems with wrestlers.

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[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

Who knows, He’s obviously grown as a person (both literally and figuratively) and a fighter, and the guy carries himself with more confidence and professionalism than anyone else in the sport. I really do think that he’s just one of those rare examples of guys who everyone says has a ton of potential and then actually does realize it after years in the sport. Same with Anderson Silva. [/quote]

Heres whats gets me, he predicted at the press conferences, at the weigh ins, that he would knock brock out within 2 rounds, most likely the 1st. Imagine if he lost. he would have to suffer and eat his words. not to mention, his website and webcast “the reem” is really popular, that would have to show him losing. This is probably the most confident i have ever seen a fighter. only one close, was jon jones in his last fight against machida. Overream just had that, there is no way on earth he was going to lose. he said it best. his training gave him the confidence. He brought in Jarred Rosholtd, one of the best heavyweight wrestlers around, and from what overream said, this guy couldn’t get him down. and brock wrestled 12 years ago. no wonder overream was so confidence.

I suspect he will be just as confidence against dos santos. [/quote]

Yes, he is very confident. That doesnt mean you absolutely must be the best if you’re that confident. Cerrone talked a lot of shit before the Diaz fight, and he was the first too admit (about 5 times) in the post fight press conference that Diaz made him eat his words.

BJ Penn anyone? Doesn’t get any more confident than that, which some may even argue is what has held him back in many of his fights.

Every point you make you act like its a definitive fact and must be taken as truth. At the end of the day it’s all subjective. [/quote]

im sensing anger from you. I never said, him being confident makes him the best. and i was just expressing my opinion. for me, he seemed extremely confident. when was the last time you heard a ufc fighter predicting a 1st round KO? I’m sure its happened. But its rare. everyone says they will win. But very very few predict a ko in the 1st round.

The cerrone thing really eats at you huh, bhahahaahahah. Don’t worry, you were among many that thought cerrone was going to kill diaz, all except me.[/quote]

What are you talking about? You basically stated that because someone might sound foolish if they didnt follow through on those claims, that they must be guaranteed to win or they would never make such bold claims.

No fighter says “I think i might lose this one so we’ll see.” They all predict a win, and 50 percent of them predict wrong. They all have websites, they all get press coverage. Im simply stating, you cant use a fighters confidence as a way to tell if he’s gonna win the fight or not.

I also dont know why you keep reverting back to this Cerrone thing. Did i ever say Cerrone was my favorite fighter or something? To be honest i dislike the lightweight division as whole, i could care less what goes on there. Hell i wouldn’t care if they got rid of it altogether, it’s the most boring division in my opinion.

Again, just debating in a public forum, you really give yourself too much credit regarding the emotional reactions you THINK you are trolling from people. [/quote]

I think your misunderstanding what IM saying. I did say, all fighters say they are going to win. very true. But to me, overream just seemed super confident. and most fighters don’t have a webcam like overream has. I’m just saying, if he lost, after predicting a 1st round KO, it wouldn’t look to good. I haven’t heard a fighter predict a 1st round KO in a long while.

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[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Saying that Lesnar “has a couple years experience” is not necessarily true. The guy was a world class wrestler, which translates pretty well to MMA.

Just sayin’.[/quote]

Bro, you’re usually well versed but this is just american hype machine. He’s not that world class a wrestler… bull rushes dont make you a great wrestler. 265 pounts helps

[/quote]

No, but a division 1 NCAA championship does, as well as more than 100 Div 1 wins with only 5 losses in your collegiate career.

Dont speak on subjects you are completely ignorant of. [/quote]

So Kurt Angle would make an awesome MMA fighter too. No, he prob would, size, steroids, media presence, fan base.

An undefeated record in college is elite, hence why Steve Neal played for the patriots and Brock played for Vince Mcmahnon. I dunno Steve’s record (151-10), but American collegiate athletic are also not the be all end all of wrestling. (neal won an olympic gold). Just go count the Americans who won the Olympic god medal, and you will see very few given this boards adoration of them (honestly I mean mma’s adoration of them, I’m just makin a point)
[/quote]

If you win an american championship, it is impressive. Nobody said even once in this thread that it was the end-all-be-all. You are obviously stuck on some anti-american bullshit based on the last few posts ive seen in this thread. Go fuck yourself. if you have nothing intelligent to put forth, dont say anything at all. [/quote]

But obviously I am a steroid hating fascist/communist/hippie who can’t understand that everyone in this thread already knows that Brock Lesner may not deserve the cult like devotion to his wrestling pedigree that he received.[/quote]

Im glad we’ve both come that conclusion

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[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

That is utter bullshit. I will not deny that pressure and money, maybe marital issues were present. Surely there must be an underlying mental illness. But bottom line steroids are dangerous and pretending they aren’t so we can legalize them to get jacked is fucked up. Lesnar is sicker than he shuold be because of steroids. Benoit was more unstale than he should have been because of steroids (though in both cases, especially benoit, concussions must have played a factor) eddie guererro died from steroids, andre the giant shortened his life from steroids. Lately we are finally seeing how steroids in the NHL are hurting people, and I would easily say steroids damage your brain when dealing with concussions. Steroids are bad, don’t pretend their not you fuckhead. I do not give 2 shits about “research”, because we still think weed causes mania and paranoia and a lack of motivation. In a way, it does, but it in no way makes you lazy as much as alcohol didn’t make you get in a bar fight.

If you are willing to suggest that high levels of steroids and HGH do not cause intestinal and mental issues your fucking retarded[/quote]

What’s with the name calling, little man? Bad day for you? I almost derailed this thread and that was not my intention. Your level of immaturity in your comment is almost sad.

So you admit there is pressure, money troubles, marital issues and a mental issue as well as brain damage (which the autopsy actually showed!) but it is the roidz that made him do it? You contradict yourself can’t you see that? You assume all these things but then blame the roids which have no track record of causing a change in psychological state like meth, pcp, cocaine, heroine, painkillers, brain damage and antidepressants can do for example.

I realize it is not possible to really have a conversation with you because you do not give "2 shits’ about research. You are a young man in college who knows the truth and does not want to be confused by the facts, it seems like.

Anabolic steroids are administered to men, women and children who suffer from immune system deseases like aids so their system is strong enough to deal with the disease! Lesnar is not sicker due to steroids, they don’t work that way. Their side effects don’t work that way.

You seem very passionate about it, and I admire that, name calling or not, but you are wrong and they way you communicated your uneducated opinion will get you nowhere.

I did not say steroids need to be legalized so we can all get jacked, I did not say they are as healthy as an orange either. My point is that steroids are made to be the bad guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. Docs are trying to get their face on tv perpetuating the wrong info. How can you agree with that?

Benoit did not kill his family due to steroids. Lesnar did not get sick due to steroids. Those are the facts if you know anything about steroids. that is all I was trying to point out. Many steroids are indeed bad for you, unless you are ill and the only thing that will help is that steroid. The were not invented for sports initially, they were invented to help victims of extreme trauma (war victims) and children who were malnourished and underdeveloped. They are currently saving lives of burn victims, aids patients and a host of other sick people.

I am not advocating we should all be juiced to the neck, not at all. They are simply not the bad guy they are made out to be.

My apologies to all if you feel I derailed this thread. Did not mean to. I work with people who really need them and have to face constant hurdles due to their use even though it is really benefiting them. [/quote]

hit the nail on the head. Reading his post and then your post back to back, and then seeing his follow up post about people needing to take a rhetoric class is one of the most ironically hilarious things ive read on here in a long time.
[/quote]

I take it you are a scientific expert on the side effects and interactions of steroids and violent blows to the head when combined with a cocktail of drugs and the ever present pressure to maintain an athletic ideal that allows you to compete with other individuals who put their body through a similar set of hurdles.

And obviously I know nothing about steroids, because it is completely unlikely that a person may actually find themselves lashing out when combining all these drugs. And that I advocate complete illegality of steroids. Or, and this is a truthy thing right here, you have 0 reading comprehension skills.

Steroids, in case you can’t read, had a detrimental impact in the lives of any pro athletes. That is literally the entire statement.
[/quote]

I didn’t claim to be an expert, or denounce you’re own knowledge on the subject. I merely agreed with some other posters here that you’re post was laughably contradictory.

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Listen if Cerrone came out in round 1 like he did in round 2 that fight may have gone a different way. Cerrone seemed really angry at Diaz over disrespecting him and he came out there and stood in front of him and tried to exchange blows. No moving around. He didn’t even really respect Diaz’s punches. He just took them and then tried to counter when Diaz was on his way out. Diaz would hit him with 3 or 4 punches and Cerrone would try to counter with a cross. By the end of the first round he took too much damage and it affected the rest of the fight. But if he had moved around and picked his shots and avoided Diaz’s punches that fight could have gone very differently.

220

I agree. I think he made the mistake of fighting angry. It looked to me like he took an adrenaline dump at the end of the first round and had to recover. He should have controled his anger and picked his shots more. I also think he should have went for some GnP after some of those takedowns.