Lesnar vs Overeem

Training
181

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Havent seen any discussion for this on here, so not sure if there’s much interest but here goes.

Been tons of buzz and debate about this fight going around the internet lately, i want to hear some thoughts on how this one plays out.

This is a not a fight i would bet on, just too many variables and interesting circumstances surrounding these two guys squaring off against eachother, especially with it being Overeem’s first fight in the UFC. However, i have to pick Overeem. I just cant see Brock being able to hold overeem down and finish him before Reem inevitably lands that huge punch or knee that turns the lights out.

Obviously Brock’s defense is lackluster and i believe Reem will find the mark eventually. The other thing that all the sherdog warriors seem to be completely leaving out is the fact that Overeem is not just a kickboxer, but also a very competent grappler in his own right, with good TD’s and TDD. And that was BEFORE he became Ubereem.

If Brock had a hard time holding Cain or Couture down and couldnt do any damage to them on the ground, i dont see him steam rolling Overeem either.

However, if Overeem plays it safe too much like in the Werdum fight, i wont be surprised to see brock take a decision.

I also have Cerrone cleaning Diaz’s clock[/quote]

Too big,fat steroid-heads trying to overpower each other-WHO cares?![/quote]

Looking at your profile pictures, you’re the last fucking person who should be slandering either of these guys. [/quote]

Looking at your profile picture,I have no doubt that you are too big,fat steroid head.Minus the skills of Lesnar/Overeem.

So you are the one who judges my fighting ability by pictures??!!
Nice try.
I really had no problems whatsoever in evading initial wild attacks of big elephants like yourself and hurting them at will.They rarely had any agility,skills or conditioning to back their big size & even bigger egos.

[/quote]

You’re a typical internet warrior with a case of little man syndrome. You can sit here and talk a big game all you want, but the only thing you can prove is that you’re a goofy looking little bald man, and i am about twice your size. And since this is a bodybuilding/weightlifting in general website, i’d say thats about all that counts.

By the way, im a bouncer like you, the number one type of jagoffs i have to deal with are sufferers of little man syndrome like yourself, never had a problem stomping em under my big ass elephant foot.
[/quote]

sure,youre a bouncer.and that pumped-up granny biceps of yours was forged through some hard MMA fight training.all that fucking steroid muscle wouldnt save you[/quote]

I get it. You’re one of those guys that couldnt achieve any appreciable size on their own (presumably due to a lack of willpower, motivation, or just generally being a pussy)and so when you see someone significantly bigger you instantly cry “STEROIDS” to make yourself feel better.

All natural baby, get over it.

And “save me” from what? From you? You’re the kind of foolish old man that i cringe when i have to toss out because i dont want to get sued for wrecking their osteoporosis-stricken body. [/quote]

I have more size than I need to put a heavy damage on lying scumbags like you that like to bend over with their pants down to get needle in their ass by their pumping buddies :))))[/quote]

lol. Oh those crazy eastern Europeans…

182

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost.

183

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Havent seen any discussion for this on here, so not sure if there’s much interest but here goes.

Been tons of buzz and debate about this fight going around the internet lately, i want to hear some thoughts on how this one plays out.

This is a not a fight i would bet on, just too many variables and interesting circumstances surrounding these two guys squaring off against eachother, especially with it being Overeem’s first fight in the UFC. However, i have to pick Overeem. I just cant see Brock being able to hold overeem down and finish him before Reem inevitably lands that huge punch or knee that turns the lights out.

Obviously Brock’s defense is lackluster and i believe Reem will find the mark eventually. The other thing that all the sherdog warriors seem to be completely leaving out is the fact that Overeem is not just a kickboxer, but also a very competent grappler in his own right, with good TD’s and TDD. And that was BEFORE he became Ubereem.

If Brock had a hard time holding Cain or Couture down and couldnt do any damage to them on the ground, i dont see him steam rolling Overeem either.

However, if Overeem plays it safe too much like in the Werdum fight, i wont be surprised to see brock take a decision.

I also have Cerrone cleaning Diaz’s clock[/quote]

Too big,fat steroid-heads trying to overpower each other-WHO cares?![/quote]

Looking at your profile pictures, you’re the last fucking person who should be slandering either of these guys. [/quote]

Looking at your profile picture,I have no doubt that you are too big,fat steroid head.Minus the skills of Lesnar/Overeem.

So you are the one who judges my fighting ability by pictures??!!
Nice try.
I really had no problems whatsoever in evading initial wild attacks of big elephants like yourself and hurting them at will.They rarely had any agility,skills or conditioning to back their big size & even bigger egos.

[/quote]

You’re a typical internet warrior with a case of little man syndrome. You can sit here and talk a big game all you want, but the only thing you can prove is that you’re a goofy looking little bald man, and i am about twice your size. And since this is a bodybuilding/weightlifting in general website, i’d say thats about all that counts.

By the way, im a bouncer like you, the number one type of jagoffs i have to deal with are sufferers of little man syndrome like yourself, never had a problem stomping em under my big ass elephant foot.
[/quote]

sure,youre a bouncer.and that pumped-up granny biceps of yours was forged through some hard MMA fight training.all that fucking steroid muscle wouldnt save you[/quote]

I get it. You’re one of those guys that couldnt achieve any appreciable size on their own (presumably due to a lack of willpower, motivation, or just generally being a pussy)and so when you see someone significantly bigger you instantly cry “STEROIDS” to make yourself feel better.

All natural baby, get over it.

And “save me” from what? From you? You’re the kind of foolish old man that i cringe when i have to toss out because i dont want to get sued for wrecking their osteoporosis-stricken body. [/quote]

I have more size than I need to put a heavy damage on lying scumbags like you that like to bend over with their pants down to get needle in their ass by their pumping buddies :))))[/quote]

lol. Oh those crazy eastern Europeans…[/quote]

Jeff Maddy wannabe ;))

184

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?

185

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

Who knows, He’s obviously grown as a person (both literally and figuratively) and a fighter, and the guy carries himself with more confidence and professionalism than anyone else in the sport. I really do think that he’s just one of those rare examples of guys who everyone says has a ton of potential and then actually does realize it after years in the sport. Same with Anderson Silva.

186

[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Kanada wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
diverticulitis
lots of good reading out there on how steroids or other anabolic agents
can promote it [/quote]

sorry, but no. the kind of steroids the MD’s are talking about are NOT ANABOLIC steroids.
The results indicating steroids come from research where the mean age of patients was 65 years old. Those men do not take anabolic steroids, they take a host of steroids to deal with other issues.

This is akin to the Chris Benoit case where doctors also shot their mouth off about something they know dick about. Benoit was found to have Xanax, hydrocodone, and an elevated level of testosterone, caused by a synthetic form of the hormone, in his system.
They blamed the fact he killed his wife and son, before killing himself, on the synthetic hormone in his system, because, of course, it was roid rage that made him do it. Dozens of doctors were interviewed on tv parroting this crap.

Dozens of arm chair physicians, wanting to see their name on the interwebz are doing the same in regards to Lesnar as well.

Benoit went nuts because he suffered from severe depression and used Xanax which can cause suicidal thoughts and hydrocodone, which can cause hallucinations. Now look up the side effects of steroids, anabolic steroids and NOWHERE do you see anything remotely indicating psychotic episodes OR causing diverticulitis.

Lesnar might be juiced to the neck, no issue with that at all, might have been since he was 16, doesn’t matter either but it did NOT cause diverticulitis and ANABOLIC steroids do not mask it either. It is very rare a young man gets it, granted, but not impossible. It is caused by feces getting trapped, that’s all. They don’t even know why some people develop it and why some don’t.

[/quote]

That is utter bullshit. I will not deny that pressure and money, maybe marital issues were present. Surely there must be an underlying mental illness. But bottom line steroids are dangerous and pretending they aren’t so we can legalize them to get jacked is fucked up. Lesnar is sicker than he shuold be because of steroids. Benoit was more unstale than he should have been because of steroids (though in both cases, especially benoit, concussions must have played a factor) eddie guererro died from steroids, andre the giant shortened his life from steroids. Lately we are finally seeing how steroids in the NHL are hurting people, and I would easily say steroids damage your brain when dealing with concussions. Steroids are bad, don’t pretend their not you fuckhead. I do not give 2 shits about “research”, because we still think weed causes mania and paranoia and a lack of motivation. In a way, it does, but it in no way makes you lazy as much as alcohol didn’t make you get in a bar fight.

If you are willing to suggest that high levels of steroids and HGH do not cause intestinal and mental issues your fucking retarded[/quote]

This is a very poorly thought out and contradictory argument. The painkillers Benoit was on also fucked him, and were legal (prescription?). You talk about steroids being dangerous, then bring up weed and alcohol, one legal, the other prescription in select states.

Come on son. I’ve yet to try this stuff, but I’d like to be respected as an adult enough for me to make decisions regarding my own body.
[/quote]

Annnnnnnnnnndddd

the fact that we have pretty conclusive research on the myriad of ways in which weed isn’t the devils crop and merely a distracting high has not stopped any american official from demonizing it, so research and official designations are hardly worth the money I wouldn’t pay for most perscription meds. This includes tylenol when my future child has a fever, because while I’m not crazy, it isn’t that crazy to wonder if there is a link between tylenol and diabetes, or asthma, is it?

I wish people had to pass a rhetoric class before making any significant life decisions.
[/quote]

I’m a weed supporter as well, but that isn’t the argument. Alcohol hurts your health as well, and is legal.

Steroids isn’t an opiate, or a physically addictive drug. It can be used safely (how many on this site have done so? How many people in your gym, some younger than 21, have done so?). Like all drugs, you can fuck yourself up with them. So sure, they are dangerous. But outright banned? We already put potheads in prison for enjoying a herb, now we’re putting meatheads in there for using/distributing? lol, sounds wasteful.

Onto mental issues. Are you talking about roid rage specifically. If so, you’re misguided. In my gym, there are about 10 guys I know that have been on the stuff (sub 1g/week mostly). I share meals with these people, hit the clubs with them. I’ve never seen any of them overly aggressive sober. The younger ones will start acting like pricks once the booze gets in them, but nothing I haven’t seen countless times with non-steroid users.

If you’re talking about serious mental issues, i.e aggravating a condition that would lead you to kill your family and yourself… come on.

187

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Saying that Lesnar “has a couple years experience” is not necessarily true. The guy was a world class wrestler, which translates pretty well to MMA.

Just sayin’.[/quote]

Bro, you’re usually well versed but this is just american hype machine. He’s not that world class a wrestler… bull rushes dont make you a great wrestler. 265 pounts helps

[/quote]

He is a NATIONAL class wrestler. He was champ of a shallow division. His size and strength pretty much mean that he was very effective at using his wrestling, even if I think he was less technical than Coleman, Randleman, or Kerr in terms of wrestling skill.

He also displayed a very good gameplan from the top in shutting down Mir in their second fight.

My opinion of Brock was that he didn’t “deserve” the title shot, but he won the fight so I cannot say too much bad about him.

He clearly beat Mir in their rematch. He managed to make it through Carwin, which was pretty impressive considering what Carwin had done at the time.

I was surprised he did not try to shoot for more takedowns against Overeem, but it was a good match up. Overeem’s K-1 win puts him at world class for kickboxing, but his MMA record going into last night was of being a 25-11 205’er who went undefeated by moving up in weight and fighting lackluster competition. Prior to last night his best win at heavyweight was Werdum, and his stand up did not look unbeatable in that fight. I am not sure destroying Buentillo, James Thompson, Tod Duffee and the rest is proof that he is not the same fighter who was beaten by Shogun and Diet Nog twice each. If you are as down on Lesnar as you seem, than might you argue he still has to prove himself as a top five MMA heavyweight?

My feeling about Overeem is that last night’s showing and his K-1 wins prove that anyone at heavyweight who stands in front of him is going to be in massive trouble. His Werdum fight makes me wonder if he can handle the threat of takedowns mixed with striking, something Lesnar did not try in his brief time against Reem, or a fighter who uses jabs and straights well. Werdum caught him a few times in their fight.

I think Cain may be a threat, because of his hands and ability to mix strikes with takedowns. JDS may be able to do well with his jab, but I would want to know if he has a ground game to threaten with. I think Carwin would be in serious trouble against Overeem. Even though Carwin has great power, Lesnar actually tries to jabe MORE than Carwin and I think trying to match power shots with Reem would make for a short night.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

I think the Werdum fight was just a poor outing for Overeem, as happens to every fighter at various points in their career. I think he was more worried about going to the ground against Werdum than he should’ve been, that was probably the only reason Werdum was catching him standing, because let’s be honest Werdum is a terrible striker.

If anything the Lesnar fight showed that overeem should have done to Werdum if he had not been overly cautious.

Personally I think Overeem’s striking talents are a bit overrated. Yes he won a K1 WGP, yes he is a legit striker, but I can’t help but cringe when some people call him “the best striker in the world” - real talk, he got a decision win over Spong, KO’d an INJURED mediocre australian kickboxer, beat an injured Saki who was giving him trouble before he broke his arm and went on to an old and beat up Aerts. Aerts is a great fighter, but he’s been KO’d by lesser opponents many a time before.[/quote]

Well. He did very well against Bonjasky I believe (didn’t watch), and did beat up Badr (though Badr took it on short notice, went home, put on 15lbs of muscle, and returned the favor).

188

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Saying that Lesnar “has a couple years experience” is not necessarily true. The guy was a world class wrestler, which translates pretty well to MMA.

Just sayin’.[/quote]

Bro, you’re usually well versed but this is just american hype machine. He’s not that world class a wrestler… bull rushes dont make you a great wrestler. 265 pounts helps

[/quote]

He is a NATIONAL class wrestler. He was champ of a shallow division. His size and strength pretty much mean that he was very effective at using his wrestling, even if I think he was less technical than Coleman, Randleman, or Kerr in terms of wrestling skill.

He also displayed a very good gameplan from the top in shutting down Mir in their second fight.

My opinion of Brock was that he didn’t “deserve” the title shot, but he won the fight so I cannot say too much bad about him.

He clearly beat Mir in their rematch. He managed to make it through Carwin, which was pretty impressive considering what Carwin had done at the time.

I was surprised he did not try to shoot for more takedowns against Overeem, but it was a good match up. Overeem’s K-1 win puts him at world class for kickboxing, but his MMA record going into last night was of being a 25-11 205’er who went undefeated by moving up in weight and fighting lackluster competition. Prior to last night his best win at heavyweight was Werdum, and his stand up did not look unbeatable in that fight. I am not sure destroying Buentillo, James Thompson, Tod Duffee and the rest is proof that he is not the same fighter who was beaten by Shogun and Diet Nog twice each. If you are as down on Lesnar as you seem, than might you argue he still has to prove himself as a top five MMA heavyweight?

My feeling about Overeem is that last night’s showing and his K-1 wins prove that anyone at heavyweight who stands in front of him is going to be in massive trouble. His Werdum fight makes me wonder if he can handle the threat of takedowns mixed with striking, something Lesnar did not try in his brief time against Reem, or a fighter who uses jabs and straights well. Werdum caught him a few times in their fight.

I think Cain may be a threat, because of his hands and ability to mix strikes with takedowns. JDS may be able to do well with his jab, but I would want to know if he has a ground game to threaten with. I think Carwin would be in serious trouble against Overeem. Even though Carwin has great power, Lesnar actually tries to jabe MORE than Carwin and I think trying to match power shots with Reem would make for a short night.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

I think the Werdum fight was just a poor outing for Overeem, as happens to every fighter at various points in their career. I think he was more worried about going to the ground against Werdum than he should’ve been, that was probably the only reason Werdum was catching him standing, because let’s be honest Werdum is a terrible striker.

If anything the Lesnar fight showed that overeem should have done to Werdum if he had not been overly cautious.

Personally I think Overeem’s striking talents are a bit overrated. Yes he won a K1 WGP, yes he is a legit striker, but I can’t help but cringe when some people call him “the best striker in the world” - real talk, he got a decision win over Spong, KO’d an INJURED mediocre australian kickboxer, beat an injured Saki who was giving him trouble before he broke his arm and went on to an old and beat up Aerts. Aerts is a great fighter, but he’s been KO’d by lesser opponents many a time before.[/quote]

Well. He did very well against Bonjasky I believe (didn’t watch), and did beat up Badr (though Badr took it on short notice, went home, put on 15lbs of muscle, and returned the favor).[/quote]

I think Overeem deserves a lot more credit for his GP win. His most dominant weapon is his knees from the clinch, and he was already handicapped by the stupid one knee rule, and then prior the the GP they eliminate the MT clinch altogether. He basically was forced to fight in the style of many of the other long time K1 guys and still came out on top.

I would not mind seeing a third Badr Hari match either, thats for sure.

189

I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war.

190

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

If you watch those older fights, how he fithts now is like night and day compared to back then. his skill level is so far superior now. now, he knows how to pace himself. he doesn’t throw tons of punches and kicks. but he picks his shots. when he strikes, he kills. Watch some of his fights leading up to the finals of the K1

Alistair Overeem vs Ben Edwards K-1 - YouTube he hits, he knocks you out. simple. the way he fights, he could fight 20 rounds and not get tired. somebody will have to pressure him and force him to fight more to get him tired. But that could also get you knocked out even faster.

191

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

I haven’t seen any mental lapses at all in many years. remember, he hasn’t lost in over 5 years. I think, given his last 2 fights were against really good grapplers. Werdum(great jui jitsu) and brock, good wrestling. he has most likely worked in his take down defense over and over. given his size and strength, he is going to be extremely difficult to take down and keep there.

192

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

Who knows, He’s obviously grown as a person (both literally and figuratively) and a fighter, and the guy carries himself with more confidence and professionalism than anyone else in the sport. I really do think that he’s just one of those rare examples of guys who everyone says has a ton of potential and then actually does realize it after years in the sport. Same with Anderson Silva. [/quote]

Heres whats gets me, he predicted at the press conferences, at the weigh ins, that he would knock brock out within 2 rounds, most likely the 1st. Imagine if he lost. he would have to suffer and eat his words. not to mention, his website and webcast “the reem” is really popular, that would have to show him losing. This is probably the most confident i have ever seen a fighter. only one close, was jon jones in his last fight against machida. Overream just had that, there is no way on earth he was going to lose. he said it best. his training gave him the confidence. He brought in Jarred Rosholtd, one of the best heavyweight wrestlers around, and from what overream said, this guy couldn’t get him down. and brock wrestled 12 years ago. no wonder overream was so confidence.

I suspect he will be just as confidence against dos santos.

193

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Saying that Lesnar “has a couple years experience” is not necessarily true. The guy was a world class wrestler, which translates pretty well to MMA.

Just sayin’.[/quote]

Bro, you’re usually well versed but this is just american hype machine. He’s not that world class a wrestler… bull rushes dont make you a great wrestler. 265 pounts helps

[/quote]

He is a NATIONAL class wrestler. He was champ of a shallow division. His size and strength pretty much mean that he was very effective at using his wrestling, even if I think he was less technical than Coleman, Randleman, or Kerr in terms of wrestling skill.

He also displayed a very good gameplan from the top in shutting down Mir in their second fight.

My opinion of Brock was that he didn’t “deserve” the title shot, but he won the fight so I cannot say too much bad about him.

He clearly beat Mir in their rematch. He managed to make it through Carwin, which was pretty impressive considering what Carwin had done at the time.

I was surprised he did not try to shoot for more takedowns against Overeem, but it was a good match up. Overeem’s K-1 win puts him at world class for kickboxing, but his MMA record going into last night was of being a 25-11 205’er who went undefeated by moving up in weight and fighting lackluster competition. Prior to last night his best win at heavyweight was Werdum, and his stand up did not look unbeatable in that fight. I am not sure destroying Buentillo, James Thompson, Tod Duffee and the rest is proof that he is not the same fighter who was beaten by Shogun and Diet Nog twice each. If you are as down on Lesnar as you seem, than might you argue he still has to prove himself as a top five MMA heavyweight?

My feeling about Overeem is that last night’s showing and his K-1 wins prove that anyone at heavyweight who stands in front of him is going to be in massive trouble. His Werdum fight makes me wonder if he can handle the threat of takedowns mixed with striking, something Lesnar did not try in his brief time against Reem, or a fighter who uses jabs and straights well. Werdum caught him a few times in their fight.

I think Cain may be a threat, because of his hands and ability to mix strikes with takedowns. JDS may be able to do well with his jab, but I would want to know if he has a ground game to threaten with. I think Carwin would be in serious trouble against Overeem. Even though Carwin has great power, Lesnar actually tries to jabe MORE than Carwin and I think trying to match power shots with Reem would make for a short night.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

I think the Werdum fight was just a poor outing for Overeem, as happens to every fighter at various points in their career. I think he was more worried about going to the ground against Werdum than he should’ve been, that was probably the only reason Werdum was catching him standing, because let’s be honest Werdum is a terrible striker.

If anything the Lesnar fight showed that overeem should have done to Werdum if he had not been overly cautious.

Personally I think Overeem’s striking talents are a bit overrated. Yes he won a K1 WGP, yes he is a legit striker, but I can’t help but cringe when some people call him “the best striker in the world” - real talk, he got a decision win over Spong, KO’d an INJURED mediocre australian kickboxer, beat an injured Saki who was giving him trouble before he broke his arm and went on to an old and beat up Aerts. Aerts is a great fighter, but he’s been KO’d by lesser opponents many a time before.[/quote]

Well. He did very well against Bonjasky I believe (didn’t watch), and did beat up Badr (though Badr took it on short notice, went home, put on 15lbs of muscle, and returned the favor).[/quote]

The fight against Bonjaski was a complete sham. Overream beat the hell out of him. throwing him around the ring like a rag doll. yet, I think lost a very very controversial decision that most people think overream easily won…

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[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war. [/quote]

JDS is a good mma striker. But, Overream is a k1 grand prix champ. there is no comparison. if jds stands with overream, he will get crucified. its like putting a prime mike tyson against a good golden gloves fighter. Jds wouldn’t make it out of the 1st round of K1. all he has are his punches. overream is going to kill him. Now, he doesnt have to worry about the takedowns. now you watch, overream open up. you have a very good mma striker vs a k1 champ. thats like putting jds against a Klitchko brother. but even worse.

195

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war. [/quote]

I dont think Overeem ever really let his guard down against Brock. I’ve watched that fight several times now and he never really got “caught” i think he just got grazed by the corner of the glove more than anything and that’s what caused the cut.

Also, that’ll be the day when JDS actually sets up his power punches with jabs.

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[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

If you watch those older fights, how he fithts now is like night and day compared to back then. his skill level is so far superior now. now, he knows how to pace himself. he doesn’t throw tons of punches and kicks. but he picks his shots. when he strikes, he kills. Watch some of his fights leading up to the finals of the K1

Alistair Overeem vs Ben Edwards K-1 - YouTube he hits, he knocks you out. simple. the way he fights, he could fight 20 rounds and not get tired. somebody will have to pressure him and force him to fight more to get him tired. But that could also get you knocked out even faster.[/quote]

Uh yeah…obviously he is a better fighter now. And i would say his conditioning has improved, but no he could not go 20 rounds thats just a retarded thing to say. Not to mention in the Ben Edwards fight he didnt have to do shit except stalk and throw a few hooks.

197

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I think much of Overeem’s struggles at LHW can be attributed to exactly what he and many others had stated; His conditioning just wasnt good enough after the weigh cut. Even when he was fighting at 205, Overeem could look like the best fighter in the world for the first few minutes of a fight, no matter who he was fighting, but he always seemed to fizzle as the fight wore on and his conditioning ran out. I dont see him “freaking out” if faced with adversity, the guy is as cool as they come in the ring. [/quote]

He was giving Chuck the business in their fight until he gassed out and wilted.[/quote]

Which has been the case in most of the fights he’s ever lost. [/quote]

That was the biggest question mark going into the Brock fight. The bright lights of the UFC debut, and the fact that Overeem has had some mental lapses in fights in the past. I don’t want to question his heart as he has been in the ring/cage with the best in the world, but he has tapped to strikes numerous times. Perhaps he wanted to avoid unnecessary damage knowing he was doing MMA and K-1?[/quote]

Who knows, He’s obviously grown as a person (both literally and figuratively) and a fighter, and the guy carries himself with more confidence and professionalism than anyone else in the sport. I really do think that he’s just one of those rare examples of guys who everyone says has a ton of potential and then actually does realize it after years in the sport. Same with Anderson Silva. [/quote]

Heres whats gets me, he predicted at the press conferences, at the weigh ins, that he would knock brock out within 2 rounds, most likely the 1st. Imagine if he lost. he would have to suffer and eat his words. not to mention, his website and webcast “the reem” is really popular, that would have to show him losing. This is probably the most confident i have ever seen a fighter. only one close, was jon jones in his last fight against machida. Overream just had that, there is no way on earth he was going to lose. he said it best. his training gave him the confidence. He brought in Jarred Rosholtd, one of the best heavyweight wrestlers around, and from what overream said, this guy couldn’t get him down. and brock wrestled 12 years ago. no wonder overream was so confidence.

I suspect he will be just as confidence against dos santos. [/quote]

Yes, he is very confident. That doesnt mean you absolutely must be the best if you’re that confident. Cerrone talked a lot of shit before the Diaz fight, and he was the first too admit (about 5 times) in the post fight press conference that Diaz made him eat his words.

BJ Penn anyone? Doesn’t get any more confident than that, which some may even argue is what has held him back in many of his fights.

Every point you make you act like its a definitive fact and must be taken as truth. At the end of the day it’s all subjective.

198

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war. [/quote]

JDS is a good mma striker. But, Overream is a k1 grand prix champ. there is no comparison. if jds stands with overream, he will get crucified. its like putting a prime mike tyson against a good golden gloves fighter. Jds wouldn’t make it out of the 1st round of K1. all he has are his punches. overream is going to kill him. Now, he doesnt have to worry about the takedowns. now you watch, overream open up. you have a very good mma striker vs a k1 champ. thats like putting jds against a Klitchko brother. but even worse. [/quote]

Semmy Schilt’s a 4 time grand prix champion and though he’s never been knocked out standing in MMA, he has been outstruck by lesser comp than JDS. I still think Overeem takes that one but you never know until the fight happens.

199

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war. [/quote]

I dont think Overeem ever really let his guard down against Brock. I’ve watched that fight several times now and he never really got “caught” i think he just got grazed by the corner of the glove more than anything and that’s what caused the cut.

Also, that’ll be the day when JDS actually sets up his power punches with jabs. [/quote]

Yes, I agree with the cut. However, I’d like you to go watch the fight again and check both fighters’ guard. Overeem had his guard down most of the time. Lesnar had a better guard. Meh, didn’t save him against the beast’s knees though, ehehe…

And won’t you agree that Overeem came at Lesnar a few times with open arms, no guard up, not preparing for closing the distance? That was quite dangerous. Luckily for him, Brock is shit at striking.

200

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I like Brock but I was gearing for Overeem since I’ve been a big fan of his in K1. And I’m pleased he won. I felt a bit bad for Brock but all things inevitably come to an end.

Looking forward to the fight vs JDS.

They look so mismatched size wise. Lol. Both are superb strikers. Overeem let his guard down and got caught by Brock. Wouldn’t want that happen with JDS. Any mistake will be Dos Santos’s opportunity to destroy him. JDS will probably try to wear O down with a series of jabs, hooks and other combo but I’m not sure if he could survive O’s brutal knees if caught in a clinch. Overeem may take this to the ground and tear JDS down… or vice versa…

Anyway, anything can happen in MMA. Whatever strategy either fighter goes for, it’s going to be bloody, gruesome like a fucking war. [/quote]

JDS is a good mma striker. But, Overream is a k1 grand prix champ. there is no comparison. if jds stands with overream, he will get crucified. its like putting a prime mike tyson against a good golden gloves fighter. Jds wouldn’t make it out of the 1st round of K1. all he has are his punches. overream is going to kill him. Now, he doesnt have to worry about the takedowns. now you watch, overream open up. you have a very good mma striker vs a k1 champ. thats like putting jds against a Klitchko brother. but even worse. [/quote]

I hear ya RV.

But it’s MMA. Anything can happen.

Look what happened with Nate Diaz vs Cerrone. My money was on Cerrone to win but DIaz totally destroyed him.