Lesnar vs Carwin UFC 106

Training
81

[quote]dhickey wrote:
ALKoHoLiK wrote:
John S. wrote:
Mir and Couture have shown themselves to be top level competition.

Yes, they have shown in the past they are great competitors… However Couture, took the belt from Tim Sylvia in a 5 round decision…Tim in turn fought against Fedor and was demolished in what .36 seconds of the first round?

Dude, get off wikipedia and watch the actual fights. Different styles make for different fights. If fighter A beats figher B in 40 seconds and fighter C beats fighter B in 35 sec, fighter C is not better than fighter A. By that logic Rogers is better than Fedor. Anyone think that’s silly?
[/quote]

Yep. “MMA math” is crap. Fighting is not only a lot about styles as dhickey says, but about strategy and a lot of random factors that could be different on any one night. (age, injuries, current mentality, ring/cage, rules, crowd…) The best way to assess is by watching fighter’s styles and skillsets.

82

Man I wanted to see Carwin-Velasquez because they would be a good test for each other. Dos Santos could fight Kongo to see where he’s at and Cro Cop would get a title shot with Lesnar as punishment for crossing Dana. At least Lesnar-Carwin should be a good fight even if it’s coming a bit too soon in my opinion.

Unless Carwin lands one of those big rights early, we will learn a lot about him and his skillset and how good he is. I mean, what does anyone really know about him? He’s mauled smaller less talented guys on the ground and knocked out the rest in a couple minutes. He gave the biggest glimpse of what to expect in the Gonzaga fight and that lasted a minute. Should be very interesting.

83

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
…fighting is not only a lot about styles as dhickey says, but about strategy and a lot of random factors that could be different on any one night. (age, injuries, current mentality, ring/cage, rules, crowd…)…[/quote]

don’t forget about riddum

84

I just went through and re-watched all of carwins fights on youtube. IMO Brock is going to fucking ragdoll him. I’m calling it right now, he is going to beat him as bad if not worse then he beat Mir. Carwin looks sloppy and weak in all of his fights except his first few against total cans. Gonzaga took him down easily, Brock will to and he will not let him up. Everyone backed up from him and Brock won’t, He has one and only once chance, getting that punch right on the chin of brock. IF that doesn’t happen, there is no damn way he wins this fight.

V

85

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I just went through and re-watched all of carwins fights on youtube. IMO Brock is going to fucking ragdoll him. I’m calling it right now, he is going to beat him as bad if not worse then he beat Mir. Carwin looks sloppy and weak in all of his fights except his first few against total cans. Gonzaga took him down easily, Brock will to and he will not let him up. Everyone backed up from him and Brock won’t, He has one and only once chance, getting that punch right on the chin of brock. IF that doesn’t happen, there is no damn way he wins this fight.

V[/quote]

You really think this is going to be an easy W for Brock? Really?

86

BROCK FTW

87

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I just went through and re-watched all of carwins fights on youtube. IMO Brock is going to fucking ragdoll him. I’m calling it right now, he is going to beat him as bad if not worse then he beat Mir. Carwin looks sloppy and weak in all of his fights except his first few against total cans. Gonzaga took him down easily, Brock will to and he will not let him up. Everyone backed up from him and Brock won’t, He has one and only once chance, getting that punch right on the chin of brock. IF that doesn’t happen, there is no damn way he wins this fight.

V[/quote]

Gonzaga took him down directly after breaking his nose, and as soon as Carwin gathered his berings he stood up and took Gonzaga with him. I’ll agree that sometimes Carwin looks a bit stiff, maybe even mechanical, but definitely not sloppy and sure as fuck not weak. The guy’s a tank [he even has the cannon to prove it] and has proven he can take a shot and still put dudes to sleep. And even though it’s been said to death, it’s worth repeating: We haven’t seen Lesnar take a serious shot, and from the brief grazers we have seen him take it was obvious he was uncomfortable. The more I think about it the more I like Lesnar and respect what he’s accomplished, but dismissing Carwin as “sloppy and weak” is fucking retarded, and no one here should be surprised if he cleans Brocks clock.

88
  1. Couture has shown he can out wrestle and beat much bigger guys (Gonzaga, Sylvia both in 2007).
  2. Lesnar outwrestled Couture
  3. Mir has a black belt in BJJ and Lesnar kicked his ass.
  4. Carwin is green as shit and hasn’t been past the first round.
  5. Carwin has beaten nobody…except Gonzaga.

Lesnar beats him via decision or 2nd round GnP.

89

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Dhickey, you are right. I should have said he isnt as great a wrestler as people think
we have went over this in the past…

Barchiel get your facts correct… I went D3, D1 and beyond… its not like that at all.
Mad pressure in all aspects grades work , practice.

that and Brock did not face anyone training for the olympics he wanted to play football
wrestling past college not on his radar.

kmc[/quote]

Easy there kmc,

There is nothing wrong with my facts. If you check the stats on average there is just a greater level of competition at D1 then 2 or 3. you aren ot going to compare IOWA to a top D2 school are you? And although I have not read thee stats currently. I would bet more scouting on and for olympic hopefuls are coming from D1 then the 2 or 3, as far a ratios go.

I’m not saying D2 or 3 can’t beat a D1 I’m simply speaking to the man’s earlier question on why there is a difference.

I meant no disrepect toward you, but let’s be honest. College sports, no matter how they pin it will alway have guys in there to bring money to the school regardless of there grades, background, criminal record, etc. And don’t get me started on the sad state of affair as far as drug testing : P

That being said . . .

Brock FTWx2 : )

and I don’t even like the guy.

90

Frank Mir says Brock would beat Fedor in the Octagon.

Edit*

91

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:

  1. Lesnar outwrestled Couture
    [/quote]

Hmmm…not entirely true.

92

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
BantamRunner wrote:

  1. Lesnar outwrestled Couture

Hmmm…not entirely true.

[/quote]

The Brock of round 1 was Brock at about 70% his camp said. You can see the difference between round 1 and round 2.

Edit*

93

[quote]dhickey wrote:

What about Gonzaga? How about looking at the skills they each posses and how they match up? Looking at records tells us little. If records were the be all and end all of picking fights, nobody would ever win their first fight unless fighting another guy who handn’t fought before. If we were just going by experience or records we wouldn’t even see guys like Brock, Carwin, Velasquez, or Dos Santos fight big fights. I guess we could just keep watching Randy, Nog, Cro Cop, and Herring go at it for the title. No thanks. [/quote]

I’m taking a look at the skills they pose against people that they’ve fought and how it’s turned out. Gonzaga is a good fighter, however who (other than Cro Crop) has he beaten with any real substance? I’m also not saying just by records, take a look at the people they’ve fought and why they have it. Also Experience plays a big part in any fight, for you to ignore that would be arrogant.

[quote]Who they fight is important, but only in how they perform against that level of competition. I look at Carwin and recognize that he couldn’t fought much better than he did against the competition he has faced. He is also a big strong wrestler with better striking and more fights than Lesnar. It would be interesting to add up the time both have spent in fights.

In 11 fights Carwin has been in the ring/cage 12:22
In 5 fights Lesnar has been in the ring/cage 32:34

This is interesting. While Carwin has been training MMA longer, Brock has been in the cage longer with better apponents. I guess one could argue Brock has more experience. Carwin still has more experience knocking people silly.

People don’t lose fights becuase of their records. They lose becuase their skills don’t match up favorably with their apponent. If you are going to say a fight is joke, please point to more than a guys record.[/quote]

Again you’re going back to the records, I’m telling you to take a look at who he has fought. I appreciate you giving me the times. All that tells me is that Carwin has ended fights early, do you really think that is going to happen here?

I find it funny that you want to lecture me about records/experience then elude to the fact that Brock is going to get knocked out by Carwin.

94

[quote]dhickey wrote:

Dude, get off wikipedia and watch the actual fights. Different styles make for different fights. If fighter A beats figher B in 40 seconds and fighter C beats fighter B in 35 sec, fighter C is not better than fighter A. By that logic Rogers is better than Fedor. Anyone think that’s silly?[/quote]

First off I was only on there to show how absurd your statement was about BJ Penn starting BJJ late and shit. He started at 17 and I have no doubt that he has more brains then most Black Belts because he showed it when he won the tournament beating people that have trained there whole lives. That’s it, if you got anything else from that, sorry. Also I’ve watched most of the fights that I speak of.

[quote]How about Chuck Lidell being better than Fedor?

Again, go watch a fight and assess the skills of the fighters you are talking about. [/quote]

I have, Chuck is not a better fight than fedor. I don’t know if that was meant as a joke.

What would you like me to say? Give you a play by play? I was showing how Couture had to take Sliva 5 rounds and to a decision, then I showed how Fedor dominated him in .36 and it looked as if he wasn’t even trying. If you’d like, next time I give an explanation I will break it down, word by word, round by round why I think so and so is better. Is that what you want

[quote]The same fans that boo everytime a fight hits the mat? The same fans that instantly boo two current champions? The same fans that start fights in the stands?
[/quote]

So, if the fans and the organizations are saying who is #1… then who is?

95

Mir needs to keep his mouth shut. Fedor would embarrass Frank.

96

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:

  1. Couture has shown he can out wrestle and beat much bigger guys (Gonzaga, Sylvia both in 2007).
  2. Lesnar outwrestled Couture
  3. Mir has a black belt in BJJ and Lesnar kicked his ass.
  4. Carwin is green as shit and hasn’t been past the first round.
  5. Carwin has beaten nobody…except Gonzaga.

Lesnar beats him via decision or 2nd round GnP. [/quote]

Cool story Hansel. Except most of the points are invalid. This is how it should have read.

  1. Couture is the best Greco Roman wrestler in the UFC.
  2. Lesnar OUTWEIGHED Couture by a considerable amount.
  3. Mir submitted Lesnar once/ Lesnar beat Mir with GNP in a rematch
  4. Carwin has more experience fighting than Lesnar
  5. Brock has beaten nobody… I love Couture, but he was outweighed by 50 pounds? Come on. Herring sucks bags of dicks. Plural. Mir is meh since his accident.

I win, you lose. Go away you roody-poo candy-ass jabronie.

97

[quote]Therizza wrote:

  1. Couture is the best Greco Roman wrestler in the UFC.[/quote]

I strongly disagree. Dan Henderson is a much better Greco Roman Wrestler (unlike Couture, Henderson was an Olympian)

Again not taking anything away from Couture, as him being 4? something years old, he would beat my ass.

98

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
Therizza wrote:

  1. Couture is the best Greco Roman wrestler in the UFC.

I strongly disagree. Dan Henderson is a much better Greco Roman Wrestler (unlike Couture, Henderson was an Olympian)

Again not taking anything away from Couture, as him being 4? something years old, he would beat my ass.[/quote]

Ok, the best Greco Roman wrestler in the HW division.

99

[quote]Barachiel wrote:
kmcnyc wrote:
Dhickey, you are right. I should have said he isnt as great a wrestler as people think
we have went over this in the past…

Barchiel get your facts correct… I went D3, D1 and beyond… its not like that at all.
Mad pressure in all aspects grades work , practice.

that and Brock did not face anyone training for the olympics he wanted to play football
wrestling past college not on his radar.

kmc

Easy there kmc,

There is nothing wrong with my facts. If you check the stats on average there is just a greater level of competition at D1 then 2 or 3. you aren ot going to compare IOWA to a top D2 school are you? And although I have not read thee stats currently. I would bet more scouting on and for olympic hopefuls are coming from D1 then the 2 or 3, as far a ratios go.

I’m not saying D2 or 3 can’t beat a D1 I’m simply speaking to the man’s earlier question on why there is a difference.

I meant no disrepect toward you, but let’s be honest. College sports, no matter how they pin it will alway have guys in there to bring money to the school regardless of there grades, background, criminal record, etc. And don’t get me started on the sad state of affair as far as drug testing : P

That being said . . .

Brock FTWx2 : )

and I don’t even like the guy.[/quote]

No worries mate… its good.
I only meant the parts about how D1,D2,D3 are structured its about the population of the school not the number of athletes that they can field… although the two do seem intertwined.
and the scholarships are not there anymore do to title 9.
I did have a D1 scholarship that ammounted to me get a “work study” job as a janitor and buy some books :slight_smile:

As for olympic scouting it depends on the style…freestyle typically are D1 rock stars,
NCAA champs or not.

Greco is different that is often a geographical phenom- or who your coach is, meaning their background and how fierce the greco is in your area. Michagan NY state and Minnesota usually rock that out. those athletes usually leave school to train either in colorado here in NYC at the NYAC or work the club circuit.

that all being said
I dont like brock either
but saying
BROCK FTW
is kinda fun.

kmc

100

[quote]John S. wrote:

Frank Mir says Brock would beat Fedor in the Octagon.

Edit*[/quote]

Frank Mir also said that Brock punches like his little sister. Must be true…