Lesnar vs Carwin UFC 106

Training
41

Carwin’s biggest advantage is going to be his TD defense. Lesnar’s striking has never looked that great. He certainly has power but, as mentioned above, that’s not exactly rare. Carwin has the same power and seems to be a bit more technical or smooth.

Lesnar was a much more accomplished wrestler but taking someone down while being whacked by a guy like Carwin is a whole different ball game. A double leg against Carwin might be more work than it’s worth. If he wants to get it to the ground I think he has to wear Carwin down first or get into the clinch.

Brock does have a size advantage, and I would assume the strength advantage. This should translate to him getting the better of Carwin in the clinch. Maybe even a trip or sweep from here. If Brock gets Carwin down he should be able to maintain control and land some shots.

Carwin might be able to get Lesnar down, but I don’t see him keeping it there. Brock should be able to scramble but might eat a shot or two in doing so.

Outside of a flash knockout, I think this one comes down to conditioning. These are two big beasts that should be locked up for at least a round or two. No one is going to be circling to stay just out of range or playing the counter striking game. They are going to go at it. Brock get tired, Carwin is able to stay in space and tap him on the chin. Lesnar is either out or proceeds to get pounded out. Carwin gets tired, Brock ruffs him up in clinch before taking him down and pounding him out.

I can’t wait for this fight and I hope is goes into later rounds. A quick finish is cool and all, but you don’t get to see the whole bag of tricks.

42

[quote]drewh wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Five fights in a weak division does not make you number 1.[/quote]

How many fights in a weak divsion makes you number one? 6? 7?

How many fights a year?

In the more competitive organization or the less compeitive?

I fail to see how the strength or weakness of the division is relevent if the fighters we are ranking are all in that division.

43

[quote]Valor wrote:
They’ll have to have a hell in the cell, no dq, last man standing match to settle it, for the ages![/quote]

Goldberg: “There’s a foreign object in the ring!”
Rogan: “That’s no foreign object, that’s a baseball bat!”

44

I also like Velasquez vs. Rothwell. Anyone else that would make for a marketalbe fight is tied up. Big Ben can take a punch and should be harder to take down than Kongo. Probably still goes to the mat but a better match-up than Herring.

45

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Sick match up, can’t wait.

Can someone explain to me btw what the whole division thing about the NCAA wrestling championships is as I’m not American. Carwin is a division II NCAA champion, I’m assuming that is a lesser pedigree than Brock’s division I championship?[/quote]

Here is the deal… and if you panties get in a bunch reading this get over it.

Div I, II, III schools in the NCAA have to do with the SIZE and POPULATION of the school.
nothing to do with athletics.
However some , schools always have strong football, track or in this case wrestling.
And those colleges always are top ten and invest tons of cash into their programs.

You will find the Odd D3 school where the skill set is retarded- the coach is incredible
Maybe its in an area where the wrestling is very good, But the kids had bad grades, bad win loss records or just went to a shit college Or sometimes there are just shit students.

Most D2 champs get to go to the D1 championships usually place holders 1 and 2 move up.
Same for D3 win 1 or 2 there get to go to the D2 they win some matces, embarrass a few people
but I dont think there have ever been upset “champions”

I have said this before, Brock is a freak.

He is not that good of a wrestler- never had any international exp… Or " Olympic Level" or “world class” wrestling

nothing past college.
and no Greco or Freestyle just folk/us college.

But Neither has Carwin

the world stage is far far more competitive.

kmc

46

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Sick match up, can’t wait.

Can someone explain to me btw what the whole division thing about the NCAA wrestling championships is as I’m not American. Carwin is a division II NCAA champion, I’m assuming that is a lesser pedigree than Brock’s division I championship?[/quote]

to not get too technical it’ basically the size of the program (meaning resources, athlete numbers, facilities, etc)

Then you only compete against div 1 schools who have equal reource. Then there’ jut training time. A D1 athlete is generally on a scholarship allowing him/her to focus on “maintaining grades”

cough-cough excuse me ; )

And then of course just train. Thus money towards the program follows and contributes to attracting more athletes, coaching, to keep the program running.

Needless to say, when Brock was competing he was facing guys who were trying to get into the Olympics.

so by mere experience Brock is the better wrestler.

However, this doesn’t mean Carwin can’t stop Broks wretling. D2’s are hardly slouches. and if GSP can learn wrestling well enough to shut down wrestlers. An experienced wretler like Carwin surely can.

However, in my opinion. If Shane doesn’t land a solid shot with those XXXXL fists of his. Brock’s going to grind him out on the ground.

47

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Sick match up, can’t wait.

Can someone explain to me btw what the whole division thing about the NCAA wrestling championships is as I’m not American. Carwin is a division II NCAA champion, I’m assuming that is a lesser pedigree than Brock’s division I championship?

Here is the deal… and if you panties get in a bunch reading this get over it.

[/quote]

Thanks for the lowdown. And I can handle it!

48

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Sick match up, can’t wait.

Can someone explain to me btw what the whole division thing about the NCAA wrestling championships is as I’m not American. Carwin is a division II NCAA champion, I’m assuming that is a lesser pedigree than Brock’s division I championship?

Here is the deal… and if you panties get in a bunch reading this get over it.

Div I, II, III schools in the NCAA have to do with the SIZE and POPULATION of the school.
nothing to do with athletics.
However some , schools always have strong football, track or in this case wrestling.
And those colleges always are top ten and invest tons of cash into their programs.

You will find the Odd D3 school where the skill set is retarded- the coach is incredible
Maybe its in an area where the wrestling is very good, But the kids had bad grades, bad win loss records or just went to a shit college Or sometimes there are just shit students.

Most D2 champs get to go to the D1 championships usually place holders 1 and 2 move up.
Same for D3 win 1 or 2 there get to go to the D2 they win some matces, embarrass a few people
but I dont think there have ever been upset “champions”

I have said this before, Brock is a freak.

He is not that good of a wrestler- never had any international exp… Or " Olympic Level" or “world class” wrestling

nothing past college.
and no Greco or Freestyle just folk/us college.

But Neither has Carwin

the world stage is far far more competitive.

kmc

[/quote]

You had me until the part about him not being that good of a wrestler.

First, just because he didn’t compete internationally, doesn’t mean he couldn’t have. The transition from Folkstyle to Greco is not that big of leap for HWs.

I am not gonig to comment on how he would have done becuase we will never know. To say he is not that good when he never lost an international match is just as silly as saying he would have dominated internationally. Had he tried and failed, you would have a point.

Secondly, his wrestling is outstanding for the HW division in the UFC. That’s all that matters.

49

[quote]John S. wrote:
Where as Lesnar has now beat the only guy who TKO’d Nogueira, maybe Nogueira was in bad shape like I said on the 29th we will see what he still has in him. Lesnar also beat Couture, and he has shown himself to still be a dominate fighter.[/quote]

So you’re going to compare Fedor… to an OLD Couture… Nog (who has lost to Fedor, twice and in better shape). Doesn’t even seem right IMHO.

He has the #1 spot because earned it. It’s not his fault that people can’t give into his terms to have him fight for a certain organization. If you want Fedor a lot of terms have to be met apparently.

I think the Lesnar v. Carwin fight is going to be a joke. Carwin really hasn’t fought anyone. Most of the people it seemed he fought have a losing record with very little experience. If Christian Wellisch would of beat Jake O’Brian then I would of said maybe a little better chance…however it seems like Carwins only claim to fame is Sherman Pendergarst and 11-14 isn’t saying much…

We shall see

50

[quote]John S. wrote:
Overeem is the one fighter I would love to see come to the UFC, I think he could present quite a few problems to the fighters in the UFC.[/quote]

Which one? Valentijn or Alistair

(I agree if you say Alistair)

51

[quote]Barachiel wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Sick match up, can’t wait.

Can someone explain to me btw what the whole division thing about the NCAA wrestling championships is as I’m not American. Carwin is a division II NCAA champion, I’m assuming that is a lesser pedigree than Brock’s division I championship?

to not get too technical it’ basically the size of the program (meaning resources, athlete numbers, facilities, etc)

Then you only compete against div 1 schools who have equal reource. Then there’ jut training time. A D1 athlete is generally on a scholarship allowing him/her to focus on “maintaining grades”

cough-cough excuse me ; )

And then of course just train. Thus money towards the program follows and contributes to attracting more athletes, coaching, to keep the program running.

Needless to say, when Brock was competing he was facing guys who were trying to get into the Olympics.

so by mere experience Brock is the better wrestler.

However, this doesn’t mean Carwin can’t stop Broks wretling. D2’s are hardly slouches. and if GSP can learn wrestling well enough to shut down wrestlers. An experienced wretler like Carwin surely can.

However, in my opinion. If Shane doesn’t land a solid shot with those XXXXL fists of his. Brock’s going to grind him out on the ground.[/quote]

XXXXXL. 5XL. Brock has 4XL.

52

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
John S. wrote:
Where as Lesnar has now beat the only guy who TKO’d Nogueira, maybe Nogueira was in bad shape like I said on the 29th we will see what he still has in him. Lesnar also beat Couture, and he has shown himself to still be a dominate fighter.

So you’re going to compare Fedor… to an OLD Couture… Nog (who has lost to Fedor, twice and in better shape). Doesn’t even seem right IMHO.

Right now Fedor has the #1 spot, but by not fighting the top competition how can you justify holding it, especially when the guys that gave you your claim to fame are being beaten in the UFC.

He has the #1 spot because earned it. It’s not his fault that people can’t give into his terms to have him fight for a certain organization. If you want Fedor a lot of terms have to be met apparently.

I think the Lesnar v. Carwin fight is going to be a joke. Carwin really hasn’t fought anyone. Most of the people it seemed he fought have a losing record with very little experience. If Christian Wellisch would of beat Jake O’Brian then I would of said maybe a little better chance…however it seems like Carwins only claim to fame is Sherman Pendergarst and 11-14 isn’t saying much…

We shall see
[/quote]

Fedor has had problems with wrestlers in the past. And I fail to see how Brock couldn’t do the exact same thing to Fedor that he did to Mir. I also mentioned how Fedor has failed to fight anyone relevant with the possible exception of Nog in many years. Where as Brock has beaten top level competition very recently. The best have to fight the best to keep that position, You can’t keep it while fighting B level competition. You call it people not giving in to his demands, I call it ducking the competition.

53

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
John S. wrote:
Overeem is the one fighter I would love to see come to the UFC, I think he could present quite a few problems to the fighters in the UFC.

Which one? Valentijn or Alistair

(I agree if you say Alistair)[/quote]

Alistair.

54

Imo Carwin by KO in round two. Idk in the second Mir fight, it really looks like Brock can’t take a punch. Idk, but i’m going to stick with my prediction. :slight_smile:

55

[quote]John S. wrote:
Fedor has had problems with wrestlers in the past. And I fail to see how Brock couldn’t do the exact same thing to Fedor that he did to Mir. I also mentioned how Fedor has failed to fight anyone relevant with the possible exception of Nog in many years. Where as Brock has beaten top level competition very recently. The best have to fight the best to keep that position, You can’t keep it while fighting B level competition. You call it people not giving in to his demands, I call it ducking the competition.[/quote]

…what top level competitors has Brock beaten? Mir? Couture? I would put money on Arloski beating both of those gentlemen (Especially after watching him fight Fedor in Affliction)

Fedor has had trouble with wrestlers but has always pulled it out through subs (which Brock lost to Mir on)

Mir and Couture haven’t been “Top” level competitors in a long long time.

If it was really ducking the competition, why doesn’t Dana do exactly what he did with his prize Chuck (when he enrolled him into pride to fight Wanderlai and lost to Rampage) and bring Brock to Fedor?

Again, just like in Rocky (I know a corny comparison) Rocky had to go to Russia to fight that Russian after he beat Apollo.

56

Dhickey, you are right. I should have said he isnt as great a wrestler as people think
we have went over this in the past…

Barchiel get your facts correct… I went D3, D1 and beyond… its not like that at all.
Mad pressure in all aspects grades work , practice.

that and Brock did not face anyone training for the olympics he wanted to play football
wrestling past college not on his radar.

kmc

57

When he beats A.Silva’s title defense record, let’s come back and discuss GOAT status.

58

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
John S. wrote:
Fedor has had problems with wrestlers in the past. And I fail to see how Brock couldn’t do the exact same thing to Fedor that he did to Mir. I also mentioned how Fedor has failed to fight anyone relevant with the possible exception of Nog in many years. Where as Brock has beaten top level competition very recently. The best have to fight the best to keep that position, You can’t keep it while fighting B level competition. You call it people not giving in to his demands, I call it ducking the competition.

…what top level competitors has Brock beaten? Mir? Couture? I would put money on Arloski beating both of those gentlemen (Especially after watching him fight Fedor in Affliction)

Fedor has had trouble with wrestlers but has always pulled it out through subs (which Brock lost to Mir on)

Mir and Couture haven’t been “Top” level competitors in a long long time.

If it was really ducking the competition, why doesn’t Dana do exactly what he did with his prize Chuck (when he enrolled him into pride to fight Wanderlai and lost to Rampage) and bring Brock to Fedor?

Again, just like in Rocky (I know a corny comparison) Rocky had to go to Russia to fight that Russian after he beat Apollo.[/quote]

Mir and Couture have shown themselves to be top level competition. And Dana shouldn’t do that because unlike when Chuck went to Pride the UFC is top dog now. If you refuse to go to the top competition then you deserve to get that rank taken away from you if someone is beating top level competition.

59

[quote]John S. wrote:
Mir and Couture have shown themselves to be top level competition.[/quote]

Yes, they have shown in the past they are great competitors… However Couture, took the belt from Tim Sylvia in a 5 round decision…Tim in turn fought against Fedor and was demolished in what .36 seconds of the first round?

Then you have Mir. Who fought Tank Abbott for his introduction fight (Tank Abbott, was good back in 92’)… beat a few people, then loses to Verna? Then he beats Brock by a BS call from Steve M. which gives Brock his leg,… then he beats a washed up Nog?

Right now the UFC even contends that Fedor is top dog. That is why they are trying (and at the press conference with Brock apologizing said they were going to make that fight happen.)

Also, different organizations can have #1 fighters within there organization. It’s the fans that are ranking Fedor numero uno, not just the UFC.

60

Not to take away from the thread and because it’s relevant to the tone of discussion:

Frank Mir vs. Cheick Kongo in talks for UFC 107: