Lesnar vs Carwin UFC 106

Training
21

[quote]John S. wrote:
drewh wrote:
John S. wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
John S. wrote:
So if Lesnar wins does this put him in the #1 heavy weight spot? Or if he wins does he have to fight the winner of Ben Rothwell vs Cain Velasquez before he is called that.

lol…that’s cute.

I am a big Fedor fan but who has he really fought in the passed couple of years that has shown to actually be something? Cro Cop got KTFO’d buy a guy who is know fighting on a under card, And on the 29th we will find out if Nogueira is still relevant. Big Timmy and Arlovski have shown that they are now irrelevant. I should also note that before Arlovski did his little flying knee he was beating Fedor.

Where as Lesnar has now beat the only guy who TKO’d Nogueira, maybe Nogueira was in bad shape like I said on the 29th we will see what he still has in him. Lesnar also beat Couture, and he has shown himself to still be a dominate fighter.

Right now Fedor has the #1 spot, but by not fighting the top competition how can you justify holding it, especially when the guys that gave you your claim to fame are being beaten in the UFC.

Dude stop reading Sherdog immediately, Arlovski was winning it was 3 minutes into the fight. This argument is getting old who the fuck cares who is better I just want to enjoy this fight and hopefully see Lesnar get KTFO.

Only time I have ever visited sherdog was to get a play by play of a fight, I quickly left to find a better site, Never have read anything on their.[/quote]

Although we disagree,zing,etc…etc…I am very proud at the way we discuss things here as compared to Sherdog. You did yourself a favor…that forum is pathetic.

22

So what will happen when theres 5 other dudes with the same speed/strength as Brock in the HW division?

23

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

…should Brock beat Carwin and go on to continue defending his title. I think that eventually you’ve got to give him the #1 spot.

This is key. But if Brock beats Carwin,you have to really put into consideration the remaining level of competition in the UFC HW division if you’re going to critique Fedor’s level of competition as well.

There are only maybe 2-3 guys in UFC HW division that can be considered top level competition that exceeds Fedor’s level of competition. [/quote]

Really? I don’t think Werdum or Rogers would fair very well in the UFC. That’s why they are not in the UFC.

As for Overeem, my sense is that he is a beast but how do we really know? He is the only one that I can see the UFC even interested in, but his performance has been a bit spotty over the years. My sense (again) is that he is a much differnt fighter at HW, but we really haven’t seen how he performs against top competition at HW. He is one fighter a really want to see more of.

24

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

True, and due to Fedor’s decision to not sign with the UFC, should Brock beat Carwin and go on to continue defending his title. I think that eventually you’ve got to give him the #1 spot.

If he gets beat though, and the HW belt changes hands several times, then I think Fedor will retain the title of world’s best HW MMA fighter for a while longer (maybe even until he retires). Even though the competition level in the UFC will be greater than what Fedor is facing.[/quote]

I am not arguing against Fedor being the all time greatest heavy weight, know one has owned a division like he did. But what he fought 4 years ago is not what he fights today. The best are in the UFC and after this fight we will see if Lesnar has cleaned the house so to speak or if a new champion emerges. I know this is not a popular idea on this board, I remember when I said Lesnar would beat Couture and I got told I didn’t know anything about MMA.

But for the sake of argument lets say Lesnar wins, who does he have left to fight? He fights the winner of Cain Velasquez vs Ben Rothwell?

This fight will be Lesnar cleaning house, if he is fighting superior competition how does he not get the #1 spot. You can’t just get the #1 spot then run away from fighting any significant challenge, it doesn’t work like that. If you want to call him the all time greatest that is fine, but if Lesnar wins this fight then he has cleared all the major fighters in the UFC with the exception of Nog, and like I said before we will see where he fits in on the 29th.

25

Lesnar is already in the #1 spot. I don’t get what the #1 spot discussion is all about. Anyway, Lesnar by GNP stoppage.

26

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Once we get more big/fast/athletic HWs in there from this season of TUF, I think the title will switch hands alot. [/quote]

That’s what I’ve been saying. I’m glad they’re finally doing the HW TUF show. Though the show is overglorified and I don’t really care for the idea of the Kimbo show, I guess being a fat bastard makes me want to see the fat bastards fight. Plus it seems like that division is the lightest (no pun intended) in highly talented guys.

Anyone know what Monson weighs normally? It’d be interesting to see him fight Brock, even if he never got close enough to make contact…

edit: Sorry, back to the point. I’m actually pretty excited to see this fight. Fuck, I just got done saying I’d never pay a dime to see Cock Leztard fight again.

27

I think this was a great decision on the ufc’s part. Carwin should have been able to dominate valasquez who i think is a little overrated anyway.

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[quote]mrcold wrote:
Therizza wrote:
Once we get more big/fast/athletic HWs in there from this season of TUF, I think the title will switch hands alot.

That’s what I’ve been saying. I’m glad they’re finally doing the HW TUF show. Though the show is overglorified and I don’t really care for the idea of the Kimbo show, I guess being a fat bastard makes me want to see the fat bastards fight. Plus it seems like that division is the lightest (no pun intended) in highly talented guys.

Anyone know what Monson weighs normally? It’d be interesting to see him fight Brock, even if he never got close enough to make contact…[/quote]

ughh, monson would get it worse than mir did.

29

[quote]dhickey wrote:

As for Overeem, my sense is that he is a beast but how do we really know? He is the only one that I can see the UFC even interested in, but his performance has been a bit spotty over the years. My sense (again) is that he is a much differnt fighter at HW, but we really haven’t seen how he performs against top competition at HW. He is one fighter a really want to see more of.
[/quote]

Overeem is the one fighter I would love to see come to the UFC, I think he could present quite a few problems to the fighters in the UFC.

30

[quote]John S. wrote:
dhickey wrote:

As for Overeem, my sense is that he is a beast but how do we really know? He is the only one that I can see the UFC even interested in, but his performance has been a bit spotty over the years. My sense (again) is that he is a much differnt fighter at HW, but we really haven’t seen how he performs against top competition at HW. He is one fighter a really want to see more of.

Overeem is the one fighter I would love to see come to the UFC, I think he could present quite a few problems to the fighters in the UFC.[/quote]

There is little coubt in my mind that he would be solid against the strikers in the div. Who knows what his TD defense looks like? It might be as good as Kongo’s? Hopefully we will find out.

31

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

…should Brock beat Carwin and go on to continue defending his title. I think that eventually you’ve got to give him the #1 spot.

This is key. But if Brock beats Carwin,you have to really put into consideration the remaining level of competition in the UFC HW division if you’re going to critique Fedor’s level of competition as well.

There are only maybe 2-3 guys in UFC HW division that can be considered top level competition that exceeds Fedor’s level of competition.

Really? I don’t think Werdum or Rogers would fair very well in the UFC. That’s why they are not in the UFC.
[/quote]

Yes,really. Werdum was actually decent in the UFC…yes he got KTFO by Dos Santos…and lost very close bout against Arlovski. But he also beat Vera by TKO…and Gonzaga by TKO. And believe it or not,Rogers would fair about the same as Werdum did…maybe better. Who knows?..because its all a guessing game at best.

But my main issue is that if Brock beats Carwin,what top contenders(key) are left in the UFC that grant Lesnar as being the best HW in the world?? This is about the talent pool in the UFC.

32

[quote]dhickey wrote:
John S. wrote:
dhickey wrote:

As for Overeem, my sense is that he is a beast but how do we really know? He is the only one that I can see the UFC even interested in, but his performance has been a bit spotty over the years. My sense (again) is that he is a much differnt fighter at HW, but we really haven’t seen how he performs against top competition at HW. He is one fighter a really want to see more of.

Overeem is the one fighter I would love to see come to the UFC, I think he could present quite a few problems to the fighters in the UFC.

There is little coubt in my mind that he would be solid against the strikers in the div. Who knows what his TD defense looks like? It might be as good as Kongo’s? Hopefully we will find out.
[/quote]

kongo is who i was going too compare him too also and his career seems too be stalled out just short of a title shot.

33

If I remember correctly when Brock vs Randy happened Randy brought in Carwin to train with him. If I am remembering right I believe Randy was schooling Carwin in the video I watched. I will try and find it.

Edit*

I was wrong it wasn’t a video I saw it was this article.

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2008/09/20/randy-couture-prepares-for-brock-lesnar-with-shane-carwin-as-his/

34

I like Carwin and think he’s the biggest threat to Lesnars throne [right now] but would’ve liked to have seen him fight a couple more times before this went down. He’s a little stiff and a few more fights would loosen him up and make him more fluid. Maybe the UFC isn’t expecting Lesnars one trick pony show to last long and they’re trying to cash in.

35

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

…should Brock beat Carwin and go on to continue defending his title. I think that eventually you’ve got to give him the #1 spot.

This is key. But if Brock beats Carwin,you have to really put into consideration the remaining level of competition in the UFC HW division if you’re going to critique Fedor’s level of competition as well.

There are only maybe 2-3 guys in UFC HW division that can be considered top level competition that exceeds Fedor’s level of competition.

Really? I don’t think Werdum or Rogers would fair very well in the UFC. That’s why they are not in the UFC.

Yes,really. Werdum was actually decent in the UFC…yes he got KTFO by Dos Santos…and lost very close bout against Arlovski. But he also beat Vera by TKO…and Gonzaga by TKO. And believe it or not,Rogers would fair about the same as Werdum did…maybe better. Who knows?..because its all a guessing game at best.
[/quote]
I like Wedum but I just don’t see him stacking up very well with the top HWs in the UFC. The fact that the UFC cut him, says Joe Silva probably thinks the same thing. He certainly has Gonzaga’s number but the Arlovski fight was a real snoozefest. I don’t remember the fight against Vera. I would have to go back and watch it. I wonder if he could make 205? That would be interesting.

I am curious as to what you see in Rogers that would allow him to compete with the best in the UFC. He may be a beast, but we really haven’t seen much of him against solid competition. I would say the same for Carwin and Velasquez if they didn’t have the wrestling pedigree they have. KO power is cool, but not exactly rare with the current crop of HWs.

I think you just go down the list. You also have to count the guys he beat. And the guys they beat if you care about rankings.

Herring - down
Couture - down
Mir - down
Carwin -
Velasquez -
Nog -
Dos Santos -
Gonzaga -

You can keep going or we see some rematches after Couture or Mir beat some of the guys lower on the list.

If he fight two or three times a year, and assuming he wins, he still faces stiff competition while other guys work their way up. He is only going to fight guys that are winning until he gets beat. That means they move up the ranks as well if you care about that.

Lesnar/Rogers or Lesnar/Werdum don’t interest me at all. Fedor is the only decent match-up outside the UFC amongst guys that will consistantly fight where they have to pass a piss test.

36

Sick match up, can’t wait.

Can someone explain to me btw what the whole division thing about the NCAA wrestling championships is as I’m not American. Carwin is a division II NCAA champion, I’m assuming that is a lesser pedigree than Brock’s division I championship?

37

I think we have to give Brock the #1 HW spot, Dana White offered Fedor a few million dollars to fight him, and he turned it down because he wanted to “co-promote”. So yeah, he’d make 10+mil more co-promoting, but he turned down the opportunity to quell any doubters out there. As far am I’m concerned Lesnar is the guy to beat right now since Fedor will probably not ever fight anyone worthy again.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Five fights in a weak division does not make you number 1.

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[quote]Therizza wrote:
Carwin by KO, first round.[/quote]

Thats fairly bold of you.

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[quote]Therizza wrote:
Once we get more big/fast/athletic HWs in there from this season of TUF, I think the title will switch hands alot. [/quote]

They’ll have to have a hell in the cell, no dq, last man standing match to settle it, for the ages!