Id like to know how someone argues that one exercise produces more hypertrophy than another?
surely if I go on a bulk where I squatted and added 10lbs of muscle itd be very similar to the 10lbs of muscle Id have added if I had done leg press instead. …
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
Leg presses are for the ego.
Squats are for those who actually want to get big and strong.
If your lower back hurts, it’s a weak point. Make it stronger instead of avoiding the weakness.
If you want variety that also adds leg size, then do wide stance squats, close stance squats, squats starting from the bottom, bench squats, box squats, zercher squats, hack squats, or front squats. Smith machine squats are in the same category as leg presses. They don’t count for anything either.[/quote]
And after all those squats you can eat popcorn shrimp, fried shrimp, shrimp scampi, grilled shrimp, shrimp bisque, shrimp poppers, lemon-pepper shrimp, bubba gump shrimp, cajun shrimp.
And yes do both but a majority of squats.
When I could squat 335 I could leg press over 1000 for 10… after working up for 5 or 6 sets… I say no carry-over but maybe if you’re tall it’ll let you build your legs up some.
The squat is not “superior” to the leg press. It is just different.
And I believe that just as many people shun the leg press for ego purposes as there are people who use it to boost their ego. Squat zeal has taken over.
The leg press is at least as good as the squat for hypertrophy. And whichever exercise is superior for strength depends on how you are defining strength in this context- the squat will make you stroger in the squat obviously, but the leg press will make you stronger in the leg press.
Most people say that the squat is superior for strength because they operate under the assumption that the squat confers more quote-unquote “functional” carryover to other movements. I’m not going to argue about that one as I can neither claim that it is true nor false.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
The squat is not “superior” to the leg press. It is just different.
And I believe that just as many people shun the leg press for ego purposes as there are people who use it to boost their ego. Squat zeal has taken over.
The leg press is at least as good as the squat for hypertrophy. And whichever exercise is superior for strength depends on how you are defining strength in this context- the squat will make you stroger in the squat obviously, but the leg press will make you stronger in the leg press.
Most people say that the squat is superior for strength because they operate under the assumption that the squat confers more quote-unquote “functional” carryover to other movements. I’m not going to argue about that one as I can neither claim that it is true nor false.[/quote]
Having a good squat means you are gonna have a good leg press. You can’t say it the other way around.
I’ve got a vertical leg press–ancient beast I bought off a powerlifter. Really makes a huge difference having the load near vertical. Plus its a great VMO exercise.
Is the machine bench press and barbell bench press equal?
If the squat and the leg press are equivalents for hypertrophy then the barbell bench press and machine bench press are equal for hypertrophy.
beef
[quote]vroom wrote:
Because the weak point for squats is often the posterior chain, I don’t think you’ll get that much carryover from the leg press.
That said, you can do a heck of a lot of work using the leg press, so it isn’t like you can’t put it to good use.[/quote]
cant believe i am agreeing with a (gasp) canadian who spends more time on the political forum than in the gym 
but, i agree. it is not going to make your squat go up, but is fine for developing big strong thighs. you just cant base your entire low body routine around it and expect to have any functional(yes i said that word, bwahahahaha!) strength.
former world strongest man magnus samuelson did a lot of deadlifts and leg presses in the gym, then of course his event specific trainig, and i guess you could say he was pretty big and strong.
[quote]Krollmonster wrote:
belligerent wrote:
The squat is not “superior” to the leg press. It is just different.
And I believe that just as many people shun the leg press for ego purposes as there are people who use it to boost their ego. Squat zeal has taken over.
The leg press is at least as good as the squat for hypertrophy. And whichever exercise is superior for strength depends on how you are defining strength in this context- the squat will make you stroger in the squat obviously, but the leg press will make you stronger in the leg press.
Most people say that the squat is superior for strength because they operate under the assumption that the squat confers more quote-unquote “functional” carryover to other movements. I’m not going to argue about that one as I can neither claim that it is true nor false.
Having a good squat means you are gonna have a good leg press. You can’t say it the other way around.
[/quote]
not true, least not for me. i have squated 540 x2 ass to ground totally raw, 600 with belt and briefs to a BELOW parallel box, and 680 geared up of a 1 inch above paralell box.
most girls can out leg press me. i usually do a few sets of 15-20 reps with maximum of 5 plates each side. any more, my low back and outer thighs start tweaking. if i push it i WILL injur myself on this machine.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Just think about it like this. All the reinforced steel bars that make up the supports of the leg press are doing what your torso does when you do a squat. I think when people talk about functional exercises, no where is it more apparent than the difference between these two… and someone had a great post about how much you are actually pushing due to the angle. Its almost as if someone made a machine for the purpose of moving alot of weight, not for building a body…[/quote]
It’s mechanical engineering 101 (or physics 101, for that matter):
F = N sin(theta)
where:
theta = angle with respect to the floor
N = weight you’ve loaded on
F = actual force needed to push the weight up
For a vertical legpress like the one ScottL has, sin(90) = 1 and you’re actually lifting the entire weight. (Common sense would have told us this, of course.)
At a 45 degree angle, you’re effectively lifting 71 percent of the weight. I think this is the typical setup in most gyms.
(You’d also have to factor in the weight of the sled as well as friction, but this is the general idea.)
So a 540 lb legpress (6 plates on a side) would be equivalent to a 380 lb squat. But wait - when you squat you’re also lifting your own bodyweight, or most of it (say 80 percent). So for a guy who weighs 200 pounds, that 540 lb legpress is actually equivalent to a 225 lb squat!
As a rough approximation, then: 6 plates on a side for legpress should equal 2 plates on a side when squatting.
I’d be interested to know if my back-of-the-envelope calculations match up with people’s real-world experience.
[quote]E-man wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
Leg presses are for the ego.
Squats are for those who actually want to get big and strong.
If your lower back hurts, it’s a weak point. Make it stronger instead of avoiding the weakness.
If you want variety that also adds leg size, then do wide stance squats, close stance squats, squats starting from the bottom, bench squats, box squats, zercher squats, hack squats, or front squats. Smith machine squats are in the same category as leg presses. They don’t count for anything either.
And after all those squats you can eat popcorn shrimp, fried shrimp, shrimp scampi, grilled shrimp, shrimp bisque, shrimp poppers, lemon-pepper shrimp, bubba gump shrimp, cajun shrimp.
And yes do both but a majority of squats.
[/quote]
That was a tremendous analogy E-man!
Some foods are better than others to be sure. But, does that mean you have to exclude all the others?
Anything that can be beneficial should not be rejected. Especially if you enjoy doing them.
Isn’t that what it’s all about in the long run?
[quote]jwillow wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
Just think about it like this. All the reinforced steel bars that make up the supports of the leg press are doing what your torso does when you do a squat. I think when people talk about functional exercises, no where is it more apparent than the difference between these two… and someone had a great post about how much you are actually pushing due to the angle. Its almost as if someone made a machine for the purpose of moving alot of weight, not for building a body…
It’s mechanical engineering 101 (or physics 101, for that matter):
F = N sin(theta)
where:
theta = angle with respect to the floor
N = weight you’ve loaded on
F = actual force needed to push the weight up
For a vertical legpress like the one ScottL has, sin(90) = 1 and you’re actually lifting the entire weight. (Common sense would have told us this, of course.)
At a 45 degree angle, you’re effectively lifting 71 percent of the weight. I think this is the typical setup in most gyms.
(You’d also have to factor in the weight of the sled as well as friction, but this is the general idea.)
So a 540 lb legpress (6 plates on a side) would be equivalent to a 380 lb squat. But wait - when you squat you’re also lifting your own bodyweight, or most of it (say 80 percent). So for a guy who weighs 200 pounds, that 540 lb legpress is actually equivalent to a 225 lb squat!
As a rough approximation, then: 6 plates on a side for legpress should equal 2 plates on a side when squatting.
I’d be interested to know if my back-of-the-envelope calculations match up with people’s real-world experience.[/quote]
That was very good. But don’t you think you should add more weight for the leg press, due to the fact that the actual sled that you are moving has weight as well?
Just like plates plus the bar for the squat.
But overall I think you nailed it.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
E-man wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
Leg presses are for the ego.
Squats are for those who actually want to get big and strong.
If your lower back hurts, it’s a weak point. Make it stronger instead of avoiding the weakness.
If you want variety that also adds leg size, then do wide stance squats, close stance squats, squats starting from the bottom, bench squats, box squats, zercher squats, hack squats, or front squats. Smith machine squats are in the same category as leg presses. They don’t count for anything either.
And after all those squats you can eat popcorn shrimp, fried shrimp, shrimp scampi, grilled shrimp, shrimp bisque, shrimp poppers, lemon-pepper shrimp, bubba gump shrimp, cajun shrimp.
And yes do both but a majority of squats.
That was a tremendous analogy E-man!
Some foods are better than others to be sure. But, does that mean you have to exclude all the others?
Anything that can be beneficial should not be rejected. Especially if you enjoy doing them.
Isn’t that what it’s all about in the long run?
[/quote]
Well put, but I would equate squats with meat instead of shrimp - Steaks, burgers, pork chops, turkey, meatloaf, chicken breasts, chicken legs, etc. Try growing without meat for a major source of protein. It can be done, but it’s twice as hard.
Psst…I think we all know deep down that squats are more difficult. Thus, they are more beneficial. After all, you get to sit down to do leg presses that should tell us all something…
In fact, you could almost make a list of THE most beneficial movements just by rating how difficult they are.
For example:
*Squats are more difficult than leg presses so they are better.
*Barbell Curls are more difficult than any sort of machine curls (where you get to sit down again…he he) so they are better.
*A Barbell Press is more difficult than a machine press (Oops…sitting again), so they are better.
*Chin-ups are more difficult than Pulldowns, (Hey sitting down again…notice a pattern?) so they are better.
*Deadlifts are more difficult than…um everything (for me so I do them. :).
But again…it’s all good.
If you did nothing but RDL’s, GHR’s and back raises for like 3 years, then the leg press would probably boost your squat up. However, the weak link in most people’s squat is not usually the quads (as somebody already said), so the leg press probably won’t help your squat strength that much, in fact it might even hinder your squat development since it will teach you to be quad-dominant and train your body not to activate the hamstrings and glutes. I can testify this as I leg-pressed for a long time without squatting and now when I squat I always want to come up onto my toes rather than sit back.