Leg Extension Worthless

Training
161

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta say I disagree with the broad statment full rom is needed. Biomechanics are different for everyone. So full rom might be activating primarily different muscles on different ppl. [/quote]

I don’t use full ROM on bench or squats. Certainly nowhere near ATG on squats and I stop about 1.5 inches from my chest on bench usually as it keeps my biceps tendons from bothering me.[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. No wonder you are tiny. [/quote]

To stop bicep tendons from bothering him. Fair point. No issues. No point doing something if you can’t without causing yourself harm. This should be standard and without saying.

I’ve always squatted with feet about shoulder width, point out slightly and it’s developed my legs fine. The other guy had to do other stuff. That is smart. Do what works for you. Adjust accordingly. Maybe my legs would be bigger if I did things differently? Probably wouldn’t have done anywhere the volume of squats if I wasn’t an OLifter to be honest. I’d probably still be clueless if I hadn’t met my Oly coach.

Koing

162

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta say I disagree with the broad statment full rom is needed. Biomechanics are different for everyone. So full rom might be activating primarily different muscles on different ppl. [/quote]

I don’t use full ROM on bench or squats. Certainly nowhere near ATG on squats and I stop about 1.5 inches from my chest on bench usually as it keeps my biceps tendons from bothering me.[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. No wonder you are tiny. [/quote]

To stop bicep tendons from bothering him. Fair point. No issues. No point doing something if you can’t without causing yourself harm. This should be standard and without saying.

I’ve always squatted with feet about shoulder width, point out slightly and it’s developed my legs fine. The other guy had to do other stuff. That is smart. Do what works for you. Adjust accordingly. Maybe my legs would be bigger if I did things differently? Probably wouldn’t have done anywhere the volume of squats if I wasn’t an OLifter to be honest. I’d probably still be clueless if I hadn’t met my Oly coach.

Koing[/quote]

Even though squats don’t do much for my legs. I love the pain (good pain) involved and how hard they are. So I continue to do them. I just have to add other things move them in my workout and mess with rom. Same with tying to grow my stupid chest. Without out partial rom my chest never grew.

163

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Im wondering what kind of squat depth is being used by the people saying squats didnt help them. I think depth and consistancy have a lot to do with it.

I also think leg extensions are the leg day equivilent of masturbation. It may be fun and enjoyable and a little bit here and there might be good long term, but if you do it too much, or make it the bulk of your ‘body of work’ so to speak, dont be suprised if you cant get a good stiff one ready when it is time to perform where it counts.

[/quote]

I think depth is very important for absolute size for most people. It’s like benching to 3inches off your chest, you can only develop so much doing this IMO for most people. Sure you get the odd freak that will get huge either way, but most will meed full ROM.

Koing[/quote]

Actually, studies have shown that quads are hit the most when stopping at around parallel. Going deeper is NOT better for quads stimulation but do hit the glutes harder. So there IS evidence for the depth pro BBers are typically hitting.

164

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta say I disagree with the broad statment full rom is needed. Biomechanics are different for everyone. So full rom might be activating primarily different muscles on different ppl. [/quote]

I don’t use full ROM on bench or squats. Certainly nowhere near ATG on squats and I stop about 1.5 inches from my chest on bench usually as it keeps my biceps tendons from bothering me.[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. No wonder you are tiny. [/quote]

To stop bicep tendons from bothering him. Fair point. No issues. No point doing something if you can’t without causing yourself harm. This should be standard and without saying.

I’ve always squatted with feet about shoulder width, point out slightly and it’s developed my legs fine. The other guy had to do other stuff. That is smart. Do what works for you. Adjust accordingly. Maybe my legs would be bigger if I did things differently? Probably wouldn’t have done anywhere the volume of squats if I wasn’t an OLifter to be honest. I’d probably still be clueless if I hadn’t met my Oly coach.

Koing[/quote]

i think a major difference is the amount of time spent squatting. best quads ive ever seen for someone not pinning 50k worth of juice a year was an olympic/powerlifter.

he squatted anywhere from 5-7 times a week, that is a TON of leg volume. but how many bodybuilders do you know with the recovery capabilities to train legs that often as well as effectively hit every other muscle group?

165

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta say I disagree with the broad statment full rom is needed. Biomechanics are different for everyone. So full rom might be activating primarily different muscles on different ppl. [/quote]

I don’t use full ROM on bench or squats. Certainly nowhere near ATG on squats and I stop about 1.5 inches from my chest on bench usually as it keeps my biceps tendons from bothering me.[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. No wonder you are tiny. [/quote]

To stop bicep tendons from bothering him. Fair point. No issues. No point doing something if you can’t without causing yourself harm. This should be standard and without saying.

I’ve always squatted with feet about shoulder width, point out slightly and it’s developed my legs fine. The other guy had to do other stuff. That is smart. Do what works for you. Adjust accordingly. Maybe my legs would be bigger if I did things differently? Probably wouldn’t have done anywhere the volume of squats if I wasn’t an OLifter to be honest. I’d probably still be clueless if I hadn’t met my Oly coach.

Koing[/quote]

i think a major difference is the amount of time spent squatting. best quads ive ever seen for someone not pinning 50k worth of juice a year was an olympic/powerlifter.

he squatted anywhere from 5-7 times a week, that is a TON of leg volume. but how many bodybuilders do you know with the recovery capabilities to train legs that often as well as effectively hit every other muscle group?

[/quote]

Bodybuilding training and Olympic training really can’t be compared. It’s apples and oranges. And it’s funny that you are seeming to say oly lifters and plers aren’t pinning a lot of AAS

166

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta say I disagree with the broad statment full rom is needed. Biomechanics are different for everyone. So full rom might be activating primarily different muscles on different ppl. [/quote]

I don’t use full ROM on bench or squats. Certainly nowhere near ATG on squats and I stop about 1.5 inches from my chest on bench usually as it keeps my biceps tendons from bothering me.[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. No wonder you are tiny. [/quote]

To stop bicep tendons from bothering him. Fair point. No issues. No point doing something if you can’t without causing yourself harm. This should be standard and without saying.

I’ve always squatted with feet about shoulder width, point out slightly and it’s developed my legs fine. The other guy had to do other stuff. That is smart. Do what works for you. Adjust accordingly. Maybe my legs would be bigger if I did things differently? Probably wouldn’t have done anywhere the volume of squats if I wasn’t an OLifter to be honest. I’d probably still be clueless if I hadn’t met my Oly coach.

Koing[/quote]

i think a major difference is the amount of time spent squatting. best quads ive ever seen for someone not pinning 50k worth of juice a year was an olympic/powerlifter.

he squatted anywhere from 5-7 times a week, that is a TON of leg volume. but how many bodybuilders do you know with the recovery capabilities to train legs that often as well as effectively hit every other muscle group?

[/quote]

Bodybuilding training and Olympic training really can’t be compared. It’s apples and oranges. And it’s funny that you are seeming to say oly lifters and plers aren’t pinning a lot of AAS
[/quote]

i didnt say they werent using a decent amount of drugs, i said they are not using the equivalent of most peoples salaries worth of drugs a year like IFBB pros.

167

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta say I disagree with the broad statment full rom is needed. Biomechanics are different for everyone. So full rom might be activating primarily different muscles on different ppl. [/quote]

I don’t use full ROM on bench or squats. Certainly nowhere near ATG on squats and I stop about 1.5 inches from my chest on bench usually as it keeps my biceps tendons from bothering me.[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. No wonder you are tiny. [/quote]

To stop bicep tendons from bothering him. Fair point. No issues. No point doing something if you can’t without causing yourself harm. This should be standard and without saying.

I’ve always squatted with feet about shoulder width, point out slightly and it’s developed my legs fine. The other guy had to do other stuff. That is smart. Do what works for you. Adjust accordingly. Maybe my legs would be bigger if I did things differently? Probably wouldn’t have done anywhere the volume of squats if I wasn’t an OLifter to be honest. I’d probably still be clueless if I hadn’t met my Oly coach.

Koing[/quote]

i think a major difference is the amount of time spent squatting. best quads ive ever seen for someone not pinning 50k worth of juice a year was an olympic/powerlifter.

he squatted anywhere from 5-7 times a week, that is a TON of leg volume. but how many bodybuilders do you know with the recovery capabilities to train legs that often as well as effectively hit every other muscle group?

[/quote]

Bodybuilding training and Olympic training really can’t be compared. It’s apples and oranges. And it’s funny that you are seeming to say oly lifters and plers aren’t pinning a lot of AAS
[/quote]

i didnt say they werent using a decent amount of drugs, i said they are not using the equivalent of most peoples salaries worth of drugs a year like IFBB pros.[/quote]

I personally don’t like making assumptions like that as I heard some plers using sme crazy shit.

168

[quote]lemony2j wrote:

I have always squatted atg, even in spite of my long limbs its what I’ve always found most comfortable. However I had a butt-wink revelation earlier this year so I’m consciously stopping just short of atg now in an attempt to correct form.

When I used a squats only style for a period I worked my way up to 405x3 (I’m aware this is unimpressive, especially with some of the posters around here!)

My legs are not a strong point in terms of development and it feels like I’ve fought tooth and nail for every ounce of mass I have on them. The above training style did nothing for me in the way of hypertrophy BUT it could be argued that it built a decent base of strength for me to work on.

I gave up squats for a while (too long probably) but I’m now back to performing them in probably 7/8 leg sessions.

Sample leg day 16/8/13 -
pre fatigue ham curls and LEG EXTS lol
Squats - work up to 120kg (275lbs?) x 20,120 x 10 (x2). Dropset - 120x6, 90x12, 60x15
Leg press - 160ish kg x 50 (15, 15sec rest, 15, 15 sec rest, 20)
Finish off with some leg ext and ham curls full rom stuff + partial stuff

Thanks for the compliments but there’s a reason it’s an upper body shot in the avi. However I feel I’ve found what works for me lately with this style of training and my quads are finally growing like they should.[/quote]

Don’t apologize for 405x3, most gym rats start to look when you grab that 8th plate. With 3 years of lifting, you are headed in the right direction.

Try this for the both of us. Only once a week, no other quad/ham work.

After a good stretch hit the bar for 12 reps
135 for 10
work your way up with 40 lb jumps to something you can do for an easy 10 but only do 8
add 25 lbs each set until 8 is all you got. This should be about another 3 sets
add another 25 lbs and hit it for 6. This should also be all you got.

Your total sets, less warm ups should be around 4-5. Parallel squats and I recommend knee wraps.

This is important; rest between sets for 5-10 min. (trust me on this)

Now the part that is going to be the hardest for you…GO HOME!

Give it the first time to find your weight that you need to be using but push it. Then 3 more times and see how you feel. I’m only asking for 4 workouts. Let me know if I’m wrong but if you do as I ask, you’ll thank me, deal?

169

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Im wondering what kind of squat depth is being used by the people saying squats didnt help them. I think depth and consistancy have a lot to do with it.

I also think leg extensions are the leg day equivilent of masturbation. It may be fun and enjoyable and a little bit here and there might be good long term, but if you do it too much, or make it the bulk of your ‘body of work’ so to speak, dont be suprised if you cant get a good stiff one ready when it is time to perform where it counts.

[/quote]

I think depth is very important for absolute size for most people. It’s like benching to 3inches off your chest, you can only develop so much doing this IMO for most people. Sure you get the odd freak that will get huge either way, but most will meed full ROM.

Koing[/quote]

Actually, studies have shown that quads are hit the most when stopping at around parallel. Going deeper is NOT better for quads stimulation but do hit the glutes harder. So there IS evidence for the depth pro BBers are typically hitting.
[/quote]

Doesn’t another study say that curling to halfway hit the biceps the hardest as well?

When your quads (top of thigh) are parallel to your knees this puts your knees at it’s weakest point. I don’t like having lifters or people squat to parallel because of this. You spend more time where your knee is weakest if the lifter actually goes to parallel.

Granted I’m coaching olifters and not people just wanting massive legs, which I’ve never met in person anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing

170

[quote]Koing wrote:
Doesn’t another study say that curling to halfway hit the biceps the hardest as well?

When your quads (top of thigh) are parallel to your knees this puts your knees at it’s weakest point. I don’t like having lifters or people squat to parallel because of this. You spend more time where your knee is weakest if the lifter actually goes to parallel.

Granted I’m coaching olifters and not people just wanting massive legs, which I’ve never met in person anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing[/quote]

I am not familiar with any studies like the one you referred to about the bicep but it does make sense based on the simple laws of leverage. Let me say that the stress from a single jointed exercise such as bicep curls can not be compared to the dynamics of a multi-jointed exercise such as a full squat.

I would agree that the most stress is placed at the parallel position, just what I am looking for! There are other benefits of a deep squat including the lower back muscles, glutes, hamstrings and even calves.

171

Just wanted to comment and say I’m seeing good things doing nothing but front squatting.

172

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:
Doesn’t another study say that curling to halfway hit the biceps the hardest as well?

When your quads (top of thigh) are parallel to your knees this puts your knees at it’s weakest point. I don’t like having lifters or people squat to parallel because of this. You spend more time where your knee is weakest if the lifter actually goes to parallel.

Granted I’m coaching olifters and not people just wanting massive legs, which I’ve never met in person anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing[/quote]

I am not familiar with any studies like the one you referred to about the bicep but it does make sense based on the simple laws of leverage. Let me say that the stress from a single jointed exercise such as bicep curls can not be compared to the dynamics of a multi-jointed exercise such as a full squat.

I would agree that the most stress is placed at the parallel position, just what I am looking for! There are other benefits of a deep squat including the lower back muscles, glutes, hamstrings and even calves.
[/quote]
so u say that only squating wiotut isolate effective only if u train 3 time a week i mean if u train once a week u have to isolate but once u do squat 3 times a week u can only squating ?
becuase u said squat can be effective only if u train it 3 times a week

173

[quote]light_night wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:
Doesn’t another study say that curling to halfway hit the biceps the hardest as well?

When your quads (top of thigh) are parallel to your knees this puts your knees at it’s weakest point. I don’t like having lifters or people squat to parallel because of this. You spend more time where your knee is weakest if the lifter actually goes to parallel.

Granted I’m coaching olifters and not people just wanting massive legs, which I’ve never met in person anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing[/quote]

I am not familiar with any studies like the one you referred to about the bicep but it does make sense based on the simple laws of leverage. Let me say that the stress from a single jointed exercise such as bicep curls can not be compared to the dynamics of a multi-jointed exercise such as a full squat.

I would agree that the most stress is placed at the parallel position, just what I am looking for! There are other benefits of a deep squat including the lower back muscles, glutes, hamstrings and even calves.
[/quote]
so u say that only squating wiotut isolate effective only if u train 3 time a week i mean if u train once a week u have to isolate but once u do squat 3 times a week u can only squating ?
becuase u said squat can be effective only if u train it 3 times a week[/quote]

I am not following you. I never said squat 3x a week, maybe you took something the wrong way or I didn’t explain myself very well. The program I recommended is to squat once a week. Hit it hard enough and you will limp for 2 days. As for my training; one body part once a week.

174

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]light_night wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:
Doesn’t another study say that curling to halfway hit the biceps the hardest as well?

When your quads (top of thigh) are parallel to your knees this puts your knees at it’s weakest point. I don’t like having lifters or people squat to parallel because of this. You spend more time where your knee is weakest if the lifter actually goes to parallel.

Granted I’m coaching olifters and not people just wanting massive legs, which I’ve never met in person anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing[/quote]

I am not familiar with any studies like the one you referred to about the bicep but it does make sense based on the simple laws of leverage. Let me say that the stress from a single jointed exercise such as bicep curls can not be compared to the dynamics of a multi-jointed exercise such as a full squat.

I would agree that the most stress is placed at the parallel position, just what I am looking for! There are other benefits of a deep squat including the lower back muscles, glutes, hamstrings and even calves.
[/quote]
so u say that only squating wiotut isolate effective only if u train 3 time a week i mean if u train once a week u have to isolate but once u do squat 3 times a week u can only squating ?
becuase u said squat can be effective only if u train it 3 times a week[/quote]

I am not following you. I never said squat 3x a week, maybe you took something the wrong way or I didn’t explain myself very well. The program I recommended is to squat once a week. Hit it hard enough and you will limp for 2 days. As for my training; one body part once a week.[/quote]
yhe maybe i understood u wrong , i thought u are powerlifter who train legs 3 times a week,
i am training one body part once a week too ,
ty for explaining yourself good day man !

175

Pre-exhausting quads with high rep leg extensions, finishing with a drop set and partials is just brutal. This is how i open every leg workout and i would never consider taking them out of my regular routine.

176

Since this has turned into a squat thread, as the original leg extension thread died long ago in a galaxy far, far away…

I very much think depth is key for squats. about a year ago, I was making VERY slow progress in strength squatting olympic style; stalled out around 300x1 as my best, but my legs got MUCH larger. I never measured them, but I put on about 20 lbs in 3 months almost exclusively in my thighs switching from low-bar:parallel to high-bar:full depth while eating a SHITTY diet (I’m in the navy). I then realized that being 6’, while olympic style was good for mass, it was best to switch to high-bar:parallel squats, and I have since seen better, faster increases in strength.

I think most people who complain about being tall and make excuses about depth likely don’t have the mobility to do so. The only reason I did is years of martial arts training in my teen years. While I don’t have the mobility any more to do an ATG back squat (it’s just not worth it for my goals), I can still hit a rock bottom front squat or full clean no problem. A front squat “isolates” (lol) the quads better and is probably the best option for bodybuilders concerned about being “posterior chain dominant” (I doubt any judge outside a figure competition is going to detract points for thick, massive hamstrings, but that’s just me)

The only thing a “half” or “quarter” squat ever did for me is get me more used to heavier weight on my back. I do partial ROM pin squats about once a month. I seriously doubt they’re a short-cut to massive, defined thighs or else that would be a fairly common occurrence (spoiler alert: it’s not.)