Hi to all… I hope this message might elicit both some advice for me, and some discussion as well.
It’s taken some time, and as weird as this sounds, I’ve come to enjoy my cheat meal. Given my attempts to train hard, and eat clean, I’ve often felt bad when I succumbed to the temptations of glutony…but have learned that one junk meal a week is totally OK. (right…right?)
There are times after a whole week of eating clean that I cannot take another bowl of oatmeal and egg whites, or a chunk light tuna/broccoli and sweet potato lunch. After refueling on whatever junk my eyes fixate on, I feel ready for that next serving of brown rice, chicken breast, and cauliflower.
But the questions I pose to y’all are as follows:
Is there a BEST time to do a cheat meal? Because I “cheat” on the weekends, my cheat meal might often be a dinner on a weekend night…then I’m saddled with the concern of ingesting all those carbs in the evening hours. Would cheating first thing in the day be a better option, so as to have the rest of the day to “burn” those calories off?
Also, if you know you are going to “cheat” on any given day, and you know most of the cheat food will be carbs of some form…does it make sense to spend the rest of the day eating primarily P + F meals, so as to minimize any additional carb intake?
Thanks so much for the advice. I hope this post might generate some good discussion!
Hi, there, Lorne! Long time, no speak.
Cheat afternoons (6 hours) aren’t much different than a single meal, and it sure allows for more options. (grin) With an optimized diet during the rest of the week it will not work against your goals.
There are a couple of things you can do prior to starting your cheat meal. Either work out (i.e., lift weights) or do some cardio >20 minutes. 15 or 20 minutes of HIIT and 20 minutes of a more moderate steady state would be ideal. Either approach will improve insulin sensitivity and increase the amount of carbs stored in the muscles, with less spilling over to fat.
Second, take r-ALA @ 30-50mg per 100g of carbs. r-ALA is a glucose disposal agent and will also facilitate maximum glycogen replenishment.
Happy cheating!!! (grin)
Hi TT: thanks for reply. I’m writing in hope that you can clarify some of your thoughts…
- you say, “CHEAT AFTERNOONS are not much different than a single meal…” are you meaning that cheating throughout the course of the afternoon is comparable to a single cheat meal? Do I understand that correctly?
- when you suggest that I work out before the cheat meal…are you talking about a regularly scheduled work out or just a light one that I could conveniently do at home…
- You offer the option of either working out OR doing some HIIT plus regularly paced cardio before a cheat meal. Is one any better than the other? (Practically speaking, I might find doing the cardio easier on a cheat day, as I tend not to be in/near the gym on a day I cheat ).
- on the subject of HIIT, I visited CT’s article (Running Man) and read about his Interval Build Up Running program as a good HIIT exercise…do you know of any others I could read up on?
5)I am so sorry for sounding so dumb, but can you explain more about r-ALA. You said take it @ 30-50mg per 100g of carbs. (which carbs? the carbs that I eat during my cheat meal? If so that may be a lot of r-ALA…and when do you take this supplement?) Can you explain what you mean by “r-ALA is a glucose disposal agent and will also facilitate maximum glycogen replenishment.” Finally, how expensive is such a product?
I know I asked a lot of questions, so thank you very much for taking the time to educate this ever learning t-man.
What do you mean by cheat meal? Do you mean stuff yourself as much as is humanly possible, or do you just mean have a meal which goes against the rules, (like carbs and fats in the same meal - ie./ pizza)?
I have found that generally the gluttonous orgiastic feasts of destruction where you eat everything humanly possible really wont help you reach your goals. If you overeat to that extent, you’ll gain fat no matter what.
I usually have one or 2 small cheat meals a week, in which I will have, for example, 3 or 4 pints of beer for a ‘meal’ or a small portion of icecream when the carb cravings hit me. I used to be the one to eat everything under the sun for a cheat ‘afternoon’ but I found that practicing some self control during a cheat meal will help you both stay sane, and get cut up.
I usually use 300mg of ALA when I eat a cheat meal, and make sure I eat some whey protein with it (to add to the anabolism of all the sugars). I usually have a cheat on the day of leg training at the end of my training week, as I am so depleted, I am sure the sugars get ‘lapped-up’ by my muscles. In fact, I always look more cut the day after one of these cheats (I assume due to glycogen storage).
What do you guys think?
- you say, “CHEAT AFTERNOONS are not much different than a single meal…” are you meaning that cheating throughout the course of the afternoon is comparable to a single cheat meal? Do I understand that correctly?
There are many views on cheat meals. Clean carbs, anything goes (my favorite), one meal, 6-8 hours (ala Joel Marion), precise numbers, and eat until you lie moaning on the couch.
It’s a topic that bears further research on T-Mag and personal experimentation. I adopt an anything goes cheat afternoon (sometimes a single meal, sometimes 6 hours). Stomach capacity is my limiting factor. During cheat meals/afternoons, I ignore the rule against combining F+C. I tend to go heavy on the carbs as I run low on carbs during the week; 75g/day (sometimes lower).
I tried cheat meals/afternoons once before and couldn’t get them to work for me, but that’s probably because I didn’t have my diet optimized. This time around I’ve made some of the best progress in my life and am not too far from my goals.
Totally ignoring the hormonal benefits (i.e., increasing leptin levels), a cheat afternoon keeps me sane and helps me to stick to my program. I find it much easier to side-step temptation knowing I have a cheat meal/afternoon coming up in a few days.
- when you suggest that I work out before the cheat meal…are you talking about a regularly scheduled work out or just a light one that I could conveniently do at home…
Either one. Lifting weights and cardio increase insulin sensitivity and the amount of glycogen (carbs) you can stuff into your muscles, one of the goals of cheating/refeeding.
- You offer the option of either working out OR doing some HIIT plus regularly paced cardio before a cheat meal. Is one any better than the other? (Practically speaking, I might find doing the cardio easier on a cheat day, as I tend not to be in/near the gym on a day I cheat ).
They work by different mechanisms, but those mechanisms are not fully understood (as per JB). If HIIT and some steady-state cardio are more attractive to you, go with that.
- on the subject of HIIT, I visited CT’s article (Running Man) and read about his Interval Build Up Running program as a good HIIT exercise…do you know of any others I could read up on?
I’ll allow others to share their thoughts on this one. CT’s program is a good one. When I was doing HIIT, I’d do it on a StairMaster, 30 seconds High (Level 8), 90 seconds low (Level 3). How you raise and lower heart rate isn’t as important as the fact that you do. Once again, read up on HIIT. Lots of options and lots of ratios.
5)I am so sorry for sounding so dumb, but can you explain more about r-ALA. You said take it @ 30-50mg per 100g of carbs. (which carbs? the carbs that I eat during my cheat meal? If so that may be a lot of r-ALA…and when do you take this supplement?) Can you explain what you mean by “r-ALA is a glucose disposal agent and will also facilitate maximum glycogen replenishment.” Finally, how expensive is such a product?
r-ALA is not that expensive. Try 1fast400. r-ALA is similar to regular ALA (alpha lipoic acid), but the more beneficial portion is “concentrated,” so to speak. Once again, do a search on the forum. It’s been discussed in detail.
A glucose disposal agent is just that; it’s a supplement that helps the body to more efficiently store carbs in the muscles. In other words, you eat carbs. They’re converted to glucose and stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen. When liver and muscle stores are full/topped off, the remainder is converted to triglyceride and stored as fat (not good!). r-ALA maximizes the amount of glucose/glycogen stored in the muscles. But then again so does exercise! (grin)
Take your r-ALA about 30 minutes before carb containing meals (not Surge, though), including and especially cheat meals.
Any other questions, Lorne, don’t hesitate to ask. There’s no such thing as a dumb question in my book, and it’s obvious to me that you’ve been doing your research.
Thanks Archaic…I appreciated your reply to my posting.
I admire your sense of restraint, control and willpower. I am still at a point where I pack a lot in during a cheat meal. While my situation at present has improved from where it used to be (i.e., I used to allow myself a whole day for cheating, as suggested in the Body for Life program I used to follow), my cheating is still not as controlled as, for example yours is.
Typically, after a whole week of eating “clean,” I find that there comes a “breaking point” where I find I cannot down one more tin of tuna with brocolli and a sweet potato. So, while I won’t do a whole day of cheating, I will consume a lot of carbs in a meal…rice cakes, ice cream, processed cereal, for example…or a meal might be several slices of pizza. The thought of going even “smaller” for my cheat meals, is at first daunting and frustrating…but perhaps that is the necessary lifelong adjustment I have to make if I want to finally see that illusive six pack.
Any more advice/feedback from you, would be much appreciated. Thanks for your thoughts (and for the information about supplementation/training on your cheat day too.)
just wanted to add that my cheat meal was today and i had 2 hot roast beef sandwiches that i meade with real RB and other ingredients that i purchased at a whole foods market,real rustic grainy whole wheat and real gravy and HORSE RASISH!!!
listen to Tampa Terry her really knows what he is talking about,and is very willing to help out.r-ala in lamens terms helps your body use carbs more efficiently…
John Berardi has an article up on how to minimize the effects of a cheat meal, so if you look around for it (about six months ago, to the best of my recollection), you should be able to find it.
All of TT’s points above are good ones. (Nothing new there!) But I’ll add a bit of detail on the choice of exercise options. Basically, the more exercise you can throw in around a cheat meal (before and after), the better off you’re going to be. Personally, I rank the options in this order (from best to least-best): weights, HIIT, regular cardio.
If at all possible, the weight session should be before the cheat meal. If you want to throw another one in after as well (maybe for a different bodypart), so much the better. If you don’t have access to weights, then HIIT is your best bet. And TT’s right on the money when she says that it doesn’t matter how you get your heart-rate up, just that you do get it up. Personally, I think that pretty much anyone can put together their own very effective “renegade” program just by grabbing some unbalanced objects and throwing them around for a while at a fast enough pace to cause sufficient heart-rate increase. So if you want to, say, grab a tire and sling it hither and yon, or carry two sledge hammers while you run sprints, or toss small children into the air, go for it. You’ll get out of breath very quickly, and it’ll have a great effect on your body.
Lorne, I re-read my first reply, and it bears clarification.
HIIT with steady state is superior to just steady state. However, I strongly agree with Char-Dawg re a workout being superior to cardio. If you’re talking about increasing insulin sensitivity, either cardio or weight lifting will work.
The advantage of a weight lifting session is that in addition to increasing insulin sensitivity, you deplete glycogen in the muscles. I’ve used what I call a quasi-depletion workout with great success prior to a refeed. I use a circuit type approach, focusing on the larger muscle groups, higher reps (15-20) to exhaustion/depletion. I promise you that you’ll know when a particular muscle group is depleted. (grin)