Lance Armstrong Watch

Off Topic
101

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Do you know what Lemond is talking about as “lances innocence”? Previously stated, hes the most tested athlete in the world, in any sport and any federation. [/quote]

Not that it even remotely matters, but there is a key point here.

He’s never tested positive for banned substances in cycling.

So, this is technicality now, he has never tested positive for what is being tested for.

If he is using something that is not being tested for, but is clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically) does that mean he’s clean?

102

[quote]seanc wrote:
If he is using something that is not being tested for, but is clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically) does that mean he’s clean?
[/quote]

“Clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically)” ?

just how would you define the rules on this one ?

it’s either on the uci/wada list of banned substances or it isn’t. so if he is but it isn’t then he’s not and it does.

103

[quote]swivel wrote:
seanc wrote:
If he is using something that is not being tested for, but is clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically) does that mean he’s clean?

“Clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically)” ?

just how would you define the rules on this one ?

it’s either on the uci/wada list of banned substances or it isn’t. so if he is but it isn’t then he’s not and it does. [/quote]

Just what it is.

Nobody new what THG was a few years ago till an anonymous tipster sent a syringe to the USADA and blew it all out in the open.

It was a previously undectable steroid.

Do you think that there aren’t dozens of other compounds that are similar in nature to THG? and the top guys aren’t using them?

That’s what I mean by the “spirit of doping”, or better, “the spirit of anti-doping”.

Using an undetectable and unlisted substance, which clearly increase performance, is against the spirit of anti-doping.

Not well stated, but I hope you see what I’m driving at here.

104

[quote]seanc wrote:
swivel wrote:
seanc wrote:
If he is using something that is not being tested for, but is clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically) does that mean he’s clean?

“Clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically)” ?

just how would you define the rules on this one ?

it’s either on the uci/wada list of banned substances or it isn’t. so if he is but it isn’t then he’s not and it does.

Just what it is.

Nobody new what THG was a few years ago till an anonymous tipster sent a syringe to the USADA and blew it all out in the open.

It was a previously undectable steroid.

Do you think that there aren’t dozens of other compounds that are similar in nature to THG? and the top guys aren’t using them?

That’s what I mean by the “spirit of doping”, or better, “the spirit of anti-doping”.

Using an undetectable and unlisted substance, which clearly increase performance, is against the spirit of anti-doping.

Not well stated, but I hope you see what I’m driving at here.[/quote]

gotcha. way i see it steroids are clearly illegal so yeah if it’s a banned substance but it’s not detectable it’s still a banned substance. like tranfusing your own blood really isn’t detectable -especially offseason but it is still doping. in season they measure your crit and suspend you for 2 weeks if you’re over 50% till it comes back down but they have to stop short of actually saying you were doping.

anyway if it’s a performance enhancing substance that’s not even known yet and isn’t yet banned but would be i say keep it a secret, use it till it’s banned and more power to ya.

here’s an article where wada removed sudafed and caffeine from it’s banned substance list and the guy took sudafed thinking he was safe but got nailed anyway cause the metabolic byproduct of taking sudafed was still on the banned list. kinda the reverse of what your’e saying :http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7091.0.html

105

[quote]seanc wrote:
rrjc5488 wrote:
Do you know what Lemond is talking about as “lances innocence”? Previously stated, hes the most tested athlete in the world, in any sport and any federation.

Not that it even remotely matters, but there is a key point here.

He’s never tested positive for banned substances in cycling.

So, this is technicality now, he has never tested positive for what is being tested for.

If he is using something that is not being tested for, but is clearly doping in the spirit of the term(if not technically) does that mean he’s clean?
[/quote]

Nope. Nor any other rider in the entire tour.

106

Funny that the French are convinced he dopes. If they just check his medical records, they’d see his a genetically superior athlete for his sport (abnormally large lung capacity and a heart 33% larger than the average man’s his size). That’s on top of the mental toughness he forged battling cancer. Just leave the man alone already.

107

Just a side note…

Your Left Ventricle will grow in response to heavy endurance training. This is one of the main problems that endurance athletes have after retiring. They simply cannot just stop… they have to literally spend significant time “detraining”. It is more than likely that Lance was not born with a heart 33% bigger but merely hit that adaptation through years and years of training.

108

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Just a side note…

Your Left Ventricle will grow in response to heavy endurance training. This is one of the main problems that endurance athletes have after retiring. They simply cannot just stop… they have to literally spend significant time “detraining”. It is more than likely that Lance was not born with a heart 33% bigger but merely hit that adaptation through years and years of training.[/quote]

Exactly.

109

anyway the idea that lance and lance alone has access to some magic unknown superjuice manufactured by simon bar sinister in his secret mountaintop lair is pretty unrealistic when you realize just how many police, private dicks, reporters, and doping officials follow his everymove.

btw did you know that lance was subjected to a surprise “random testing” by the french government at this year’s tour just after the standard tests but before the prolouge ? official testing was thursday. friday afternoon lance was at his hotel and french government and uci officials came and took him to a trailer for blood and urine tests for a frickn HOUR !! oh and lance was the one and only rider of the tour selected for this “random surprise test” hahaha!! random !!! lance has also passed six other out of competition tests this year.

and if the testing weren’t enough or the police and reporters following him and searching his rooms ,houses, and trash - all of them frothing at the mouth trying to be the hero who to busts the story- lance is willing to sue to prove he isn’t doping -and is sueing- as in under oath in a court of law. any idea what a can of worms that is to be willing to open up ?

2 questions for you people who think lance is doping :

1 why do you think that ?

2 what the frick do you want ?

110

interesting bit from cycling news today. they’re already testing for things that aren’t banned -yet:

<<<New “explosive” EPO driving TdF speed? UCI doc doubts it

By Tim Maloney, European Editor

Could a new anemia drug called Cera from Swiss pharmaceutical giant Roche could be replacing EPO in the peloton? Recently, Roche announced that an extension of a continued Phase II trial, which was a year-long study of 61 patients, showed Cera could be used in one dose every four weeks to control hemoglobin levels in patients undergoing dialysis. Hemoglobin is the protein that binds with oxygen in red blood cells. Cera works by stimulating red blood cell production, which is lower than normal in anemia sufferers. Francaise des Jeux team doctor Gerard Guillame gave an interview to Le Figaro where he talked about a new type of “explosive” EPO that passes through the system in only 24 hours.

Some new drug may be an easy answer for the reason for the record speed of this year’s Tour de France, but Dr. Mario Zorzoli of the UCI is skeptical. “I wouldn’t say that there’s anything to suspect in this year’s Tour”, Zorzoli told Italian sports newspaper La Gazetta dello Sport. “It’s actually the contrary. It’s not that the riders [blood] parameters are at the limits; we’ve seen a general lowering of the values of many values, like haemoglobin, and haematocrit.”

Regarding the supposed existence of a new, explosive EPO and the UCI doctor said “We’ve heard of EPO of human origin, but that’s nothing new. There’s a new protein called Cera that attaches to the receptors of EPO and has the same effect. It’s not on the [pharmaceutical] market yet and it’s not on the banned list yet, but in any case, we have the means to detect [it]. We’ve even tested for it, but have not found any.”

Zorzoli concluded by debunking the idea of a new “explosive” EPO that passes through the system in 24 hours, saying “any kind of EPO, no matter how fast it passes through the system, changes other blood parameters. So it’s detectable.”>>>

111

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Just a side note…

Your Left Ventricle will grow in response to heavy endurance training. This is one of the main problems that endurance athletes have after retiring. They simply cannot just stop… they have to literally spend significant time “detraining”. It is more than likely that Lance was not born with a heart 33% bigger but merely hit that adaptation through years and years of training.[/quote]

I know this was one of Big Mig’s problems when he retired.

His doctors were saying that the left ventricle had hypertrophied so much that if he wasn’t training hard, some of the blood would get (essentially) pushed into the corner and would be stuck there for a while.

112

[quote]swivel wrote:
interesting bit from cycling news today. they’re already testing for things that aren’t banned -yet:
[/quote]

Read some cycling forums and learn from people that know and are in the sport and you realize that “cycling news” is just another publication that is full of shit.

And that attitude of the guy being interviewed speaks volumes.

On par with wieder mags promoting pro-bodybuilding as something anyone can do with the right supplements you can get at the local gnc…

Arrogance+hubris. Two great tastes that taste great together!

Whether Lance uses anything or not is totally irrelevant to me. The guy is a total testament to what the human machine can do, whether it is chemically assisted or not.

If he is natural, he is awesome.
If he uses, he is awesome.

I love watching the Tour for one reason, Lance rides it. He may have even made an overall cycling fan out of me, I’ll probably watch it even when he’s gone just because it is so amazingly brutal.

113

[quote]seanc wrote:

Read some cycling forums and learn from people that know and are in the sport[/quote]

um… i haven’t raced in 10 years but i’ve held uscf licenses for cat 4,3,and 2.(no cat 5 when i started) and my best friend of 15 years is a race mechanic for mavic and drives mavic neutral support motorbikes for smaller events like the olympics and the tour de france. i know, i know , we might not be as qualified to judge as someone on a cycling forum…jeez i dunno…how bout if i told you lance pee’d on my buddies’ leg at this years tour de georgia and i almost saw it happen ? would that count ?

just my opinion of course but cyclingnews.com is the most thorough and complete source for cycling news there is on the web. go check it out. even if you don’t like cycling it’s astonishing how much real info they put up everyday.its one of the highest quality sites on the net period.

are you thinking of “velo-news” which 10/15 years ago was pretty good but has lately gone the way of “bike” and “bicycle guide” ?

[quote]

And that attitude of the guy being interviewed speaks volumes. [/quote]

he’s an official doctor for the uci. he’s the guy doing the testing. wether you like what he said or not, it’s his opinion that matters. that’s why i found it interesting.

114

the excitement now for me is ullrich hopefully will knock rasmussen off the podium. won’t be easy. prolly too much time to make up in the time trial so he and t-mobile will have to attack ! that will be tough as opportunities to gap rasmussen will be limited…like if ullrich breaks the too early on the day he’ll just be pulling discovery or csc after him and rasmussen will be along for the ride. if he’s gonna do it it’s gotta be like a mini team time trial at a point where disco and csc will let them go up the road. those guys -t-mobile- can do some real damage if they can get clear. i think it would be awesome if someone like vino got up the road on an early break and held up late r on when ullrich and maybe klode and sevilla frickn gap the field and drop rasmussen. ullrich deserves podium. amazing how he’s riding after busting a rear window w/ his unhelmeted head. not mention the bruised ribs. hopefully there’s still some really good racing to come !

115

[quote]swivel wrote:
the excitement now for me is ullrich hopefully will knock rasmussen off the podium. won’t be easy. prolly too much time to make up in the time trial so he and t-mobile will have to attack ! that will be tough as opportunities to gap rasmussen will be limited…like if ullrich breaks the too early on the day he’ll just be pulling discovery or csc after him and rasmussen will be along for the ride. if he’s gonna do it it’s gotta be like a mini team time trial at a point where disco and csc will let them go up the road. those guys -t-mobile- can do some real damage if they can get clear. i think it would be awesome if someone like vino got up the road on an early break and held up late r on when ullrich and maybe klode and sevilla frickn gap the field and drop rasmussen. ullrich deserves podium. amazing how he’s riding after busting a rear window w/ his unhelmeted head. not mention the bruised ribs. hopefully there’s still some really good racing to come ![/quote]

My heart bleeds for ullrich, I can’t believe that poor bastard has taken second to LA so many times. If he had been born in another decade, he’d be a 5 or maybe even 6 time winner by the time he finally stopped racing.

Is he the greatest “also ran” in the history of the Tour?

I have to say though, I want to see Ras on the podium. He ran away on that earlier stage and has kept up ever since, he deserves it. All those guys(ullrich, bass, liep, kloden etc…) that were only looking at Lance probably blew there chances that day. I have to believe they never expected the former mountain biker to maintain all this time!

116

Stage 16 Report

4 hours ago

Overall leader, six-time Tour de France winner and leader …
PAU, France - Lance Armstrong simplified his game plan after scaling the last tough mountain of his Tour de France career.

“The big, big days and the big difficulties are done,” Armstrong said after Tuesday’s 16th stage. “Now we have to stay safe, stay conservative and look to the final time trial and try and close it out.”

Completing the last of three days in the Pyrenees left just a mostly flat stage, two medium mountain stages and the time trial for Armstrong to negotiate before what he hopes is a final victorious pedal up Paris’ Champs-Elysees.

Spaniard Oscar Pereiro won the stage, with Armstrong finishing in a group that included Ivan Basso, T-Mobile leader Jan Ullrich and other top riders - all 3 minutes, 24 seconds behind Pereiro.

Armstrong’s lead over Basso, looking to improve on his third-place finish last year, remains at 2:46. Mickael Rasmussen of Denmark is third, 3:09 behind the six-time champion. Ullrich is fourth overall and trails Armstrong by 5:58.

Armstrong was so untroubled during Tuesday’s stage, he felt as if he was freewheeling.

“It was an amazing day. Today there was no chain on the bike,” he said. “Maybe today was one of my best days. I don’t know why, I don’t have a real explanation, but I felt totally confident. I felt the team was very strong. It was a great day for us.”

Mufasa

117

[quote]seanc wrote:

My heart bleeds for ullrich, I can’t believe that poor bastard has taken second to LA so many times. If he had been born in another decade, he’d be a 5 or maybe even 6 time winner by the time he finally stopped racing.

Is he the greatest “also ran” in the history of the Tour?

[/quote]

i think so . i think he’s finished 2nd 4 times !! he did win the tour in ‘97 though so it’s not that bad. what i really like about him is how tough he is and how he just keeps on doin’ his thing. he’s gotten dealt some really shitty hands but never once whined about it.as opposed to lemond for instance when hinault screwed him out of the tour -twice if you think about it- to this day he’s still cryin’ about it.

yeah rasmussen has had a really good ride. just goes to show how much value there is in riding the mountains. he’d be really hot shit to take 3rd AND kom. i hope there’s at least a race for 3rd.

118

Stage 17 Report

17 minutes ago

REVEL, France - Lance Armstrong claimed his 79th yellow jersey Wednesday at the Tour de France in a stage won by Discovery Channel teammate Paolo Savoldelli.

Armstrong tied French great Bernard Hinault. Only Eddy Merckx, with 111, has won more yellow jerseys. Merckx, Hinault, Miguel Indurain and Jacques Anquetil all won five Tours - a record Armstrong surpassed last year.

Savoldelli’s victory in the 17th stage, the longest this year, was the third for Armstrong’s Discovery Channel team at this year’s race. George Hincapie won a stage in the Pyrenees and the squad won the team time trial.

Hincapie and Savoldelli are the first of Armstrong’s teammates to win a stage in the Tour since the Texan’s run of victories began in 1999. Armstrong finished in a small group 22 minutes and 28 seconds behind Savoldelli and his overall lead remained unchanged.

Savoldelli also won his second Giro d’Italia title earlier this year, overcoming injuries and health problems that almost ended his career.

“It’s been a very lucky year for me,” he said.

Savoldelli was part of a breakaway group that built up a lead of more than 24 minutes over Armstrong’s following pack. Because the riders ahead were no threat to his overall lead, Armstrong did not give chase.

Instead, the main pack of riders took it easy for much of the 148.8-mile trek across southern France from Pau to Revel. Their average speed over the second and third hours of the stage was less than 25 miles an hour - slower than usual.

Only toward the end did Armstrong and other top riders up the pace.

Savoldelli’s time was 5 hours, 41 minutes and 19 seconds, riding at average of 26.1 miles per hour.

Armstrong’s overall lead over Ivan Basso of Italy, who also finished in his group, stayed at 2:46. Mickael Rasmussen of Denmark is 3:09 back.

Armstrong and the others in the main pack, including his closest rivals, soaked up the scenery of rolling hills, picturesque villages and freshly harvested fields, chatting and occasionally joking with television crews.

Armstrong even hammed it up for TV viewers - a clear indication that the pressure on him eased when he emerged from the last day in the high mountains on Tuesday with his comfortable lead intact.

Mufasa

119

I have always had a tremendous amount of respect for Armstrong, and I laugh at these fat bastard sports reporters that debate whether or not he is athlete because he rides a damned bike. The cancer only makes you shake head more. Anyone who is very passionate about their sport and who pushes themselves seemingly beyond physical limitations has mucho respecto from me.

120

[quote]seanc wrote:
swivel wrote:
the excitement now for me is ullrich hopefully will knock rasmussen off the podium. won’t be easy. prolly too much time to make up in the time trial so he and t-mobile will have to attack ! that will be tough as opportunities to gap rasmussen will be limited…like if ullrich breaks the too early on the day he’ll just be pulling discovery or csc after him and rasmussen will be along for the ride. if he’s gonna do it it’s gotta be like a mini team time trial at a point where disco and csc will let them go up the road. those guys -t-mobile- can do some real damage if they can get clear. i think it would be awesome if someone like vino got up the road on an early break and held up late r on when ullrich and maybe klode and sevilla frickn gap the field and drop rasmussen. ullrich deserves podium. amazing how he’s riding after busting a rear window w/ his unhelmeted head. not mention the bruised ribs. hopefully there’s still some really good racing to come !

My heart bleeds for ullrich, I can’t believe that poor bastard has taken second to LA so many times. If he had been born in another decade, he’d be a 5 or maybe even 6 time winner by the time he finally stopped racing.

Is he the greatest “also ran” in the history of the Tour?

I have to say though, I want to see Ras on the podium. He ran away on that earlier stage and has kept up ever since, he deserves it. All those guys(ullrich, bass, liep, kloden etc…) that were only looking at Lance probably blew there chances that day. I have to believe they never expected the former mountain biker to maintain all this time!

[/quote]

I feel bad for Ullrich as well. The dude has to be pulling his frickin hair out trying to figure out how he can take Lance. He is one hell of a racer and I am glad he did get at least one TDF victory. I see alot of people busted Rasmussen’s chops for talking shit but he is no different than most pro cyclists. I see a few of you here are current or former cyclists and we all know know that at all levels there is a lot of trash talking going on. Look at Simoni a few years ago talking shit before the tour and the next thing we know he is cracking and foaming at the mouth while climbing L’Alpe D’Huez (if i remember right). Its all part of the game and at least Rasmussen has backed it up. Its also cool to see another former mountain biker having a strong tour, Cadel Evans.

As for the whole doping debate; as far as I am concerned there is no debate. He has never tested positive so let it go and lets watch him kick everyones ass and enjoy the sport.

Last but not least. Where the hell was Alessandro Pettachi???

TR