vino’s got guts and and alot of pride. i really like him. i think he’ll be attacking again as he appears to be just coming into top form. that said i also think lance will be up to it. racing ahead !
kinda weird though the dymanic between vino and ullrich, kloden, and the rest of t-mobile eh ?
It would have been really interesting to see Lance’s response had Vinokourov been a bigger threat by not losing a heap of time the day before.
That was a great breakaway on such a difficult climb (BTW, anyone else think those climbers are simply not human with the pace they can keep up the mountains?), I felt sorry that he didn’t finish further in front, it deserved a better result, would have made the race more exciting as well. He will have to pull out something special on another stage or have Lance suffer a set back to have any chance to win now.
[quote]bg100 wrote:
It would have been really interesting to see Lance’s response had Vinokourov been a bigger threat by not losing a heap of time the day before.
That was a great breakaway on such a difficult climb (BTW, anyone else think those climbers are simply not human with the pace they can keep up the mountains?), I felt sorry that he didn’t finish further in front, it deserved a better result, would have made the race more exciting as well. He will have to pull out something special on another stage or have Lance suffer a set back to have any chance to win now.[/quote]
that’s exactly why Lance has a hammerlock on the Tour now… if there was ever a stage where Lance could have conceivably suffered, it was this one. The rest of the mountain stages (except Stage 16) are relatively easy in comparison. Stage 16 will be tough but nothing like Stage 11.
If they want to beat Lance they are going to have to force the pace and attack, attack, attack. However, by doing that you are playing right into Lance’s hands… that is pretty much his specialty.
Again, I don’t see how other than Lance’s body having a total meltdown - how he could lose this Tour.
-max
I have to ask… is 38 seconds (Lance’ lead over 2nd place) THAT significant in lieu of the fact that the race is still several days to go and hundreds of miles to boot?
[quote]IronHell wrote:
I have to ask… is 38 seconds (Lance’ lead over 2nd place) THAT significant in lieu of the fact that the race is still several days to go and hundreds of miles to boot?[/quote]
well, theoretically, no… but the better question is this:
Is Rasmussen so good in the mountains that he can put significant time on Lance - so much so that Lance can’t take it back in the Time Trial?
That is the Armstrong Trump Card - most climbers can’t time trial - Lance is not only among the best climbers in the world, but he is also hands down the best time trialist in the world.
This is why Lance has the “hammerlock” on the Tour. Armstrong may “bonk” allowing Rasmussen to conceivably take the Yellow in the mountains, but unless he can put at least 2 minutes between him and Lance in the mountains, he’s toast come Stage 20.
Stage 12 Update
5 hours ago
DIGNE-LES-BAINS, France - Not everything went according to plan for Lance Armstrong on Thursday at the Tour de France. The American retained his overall lead on the last of three days in the Alps. The loss of Manuel Beltran, however, could be critical in the upcoming Pyrenees.
David Moncoutie won the 12th stage, becoming the 15th Frenchman since World War II to win on Bastille Day, France’s national holiday.
Beltran, one of several riders Armstrong relies on to lead him up the Tour’s brutal climbs, touched wheels with another racer and crashed on the day’s first ascent, hitting his head. He was so dazed he didn’t know where he was.
“He was asking, ‘Where is the peloton? Where is the peloton?’” said team manager Johan Bruyneel, adding the Spaniard gingerly picked himself up off the sun-baked tarmac.
Beltran, who goes by the nickname “Triki” and has been part of Armstrong’s Tour-winning team since 2003, remounted his bike with difficulty and pedaled on for about 6 miles until a race doctor said he should stop, Bruyneel said.
“We could see that he really didn’t know where he was. There was no power at all and after a while he didn’t even realize that he had crashed,” Bruyneel said. “So we forced him to stop.”
Beltran, 34, was taken to a hospital where a brain scan found no initial sign of serious injury, although he was being kept overnight for observation.
Not since 2001 has Armstrong finished in Paris without all of his teammates. Beltran’s role has been to lead the American on mountain ascents, using his uphill speed to shake off rivals.
His loss “could be very critical with the days that we have coming up,” Armstrong said. “Three tough days in the Pyrenees. We don’t want to lose any climbers and Triki is one of our pure climbers.”
The mountains that separate France and Spain come Saturday after a mostly flat stage Friday from Miramas to Montpellier in southern France.
Armstrong still has several strong climbers among his remaining seven support riders. They include Yaroslav Popovych, who helped Armstrong leave rivals behind with brutal acceleration on the first Alpine stage, and Jose Luis Rubiera, known as “Chechu.”
“I feel very confident that with those seven guys we can manage,” Armstrong said.
Bruyneel was less emphatic.
“There is no one really who can pick up what he was doing,” Bruyneel said. "We need all the guys and everybody knows his role and he and Chechu were working in the early mountains. It’s going to be tougher on the team of course, because it’s one guy less and his job will have to be shared with a few guys.
“It’s tough to lose a rider but the good news is that he doesn’t have anything serious and that is the most important,” he added.
Mufasa
that’s why they play the games. lance’d sure be a lot more comfy if he had a couple of minutes. freaky shit can happen and does happen. look at ullrich and think how would you be riding after putting your helmetless head through a car window one week and then busting your helmet open while doing a couple of endos the next. look at zabriskie droppin’ out after hitting the deck in the ttt…pereiro riding off the road on galibier…boonen crashes out …beltran crashed out… remember lance using up one his lives and going offroad avoiding beloki and his busted pelvis in ’
’ 03 ? how ‘bout when he was so dehydrated he lost like a minute and a half and 13 lbs on one day ? or when he escaped death once more when he hooked that spectator’s handbag and hit the deck ? ullrich waited up for him and that was a class move btw… yeah if lance executes everything as planned he’s got a hammerlock. and even if it all doesn’t go as planned cause there’s a few wildcards brewing, my money’s still on him. but there’s still half a race to go and with that a lot of opportunity for murphy’s law to step up and eat some more. on paper the yankees should be frickn crushin’ everyone…and that’s why they play the games
[quote]swivel wrote:
that’s why they play the games. lance’d sure be a lot more comfy if he had a couple of minutes. freaky shit can happen and does happen. look at ullrich and think how would you be riding after putting your helmetless head through a car window one week and then busting your helmet open while doing a couple of endos the next. look at zabriskie droppin’ out after hitting the deck in the ttt…pereiro riding off the road on galibier…boonen crashes out …beltran crashed out… remember lance using up one his lives and going offroad avoiding beloki and his busted pelvis in ’
’ 03 ? how ‘bout when he was so dehydrated he lost like a minute and a half and 13 lbs on one day ? or when he escaped death once more when he hooked that spectator’s handbag and hit the deck ? ullrich waited up for him and that was a class move btw… yeah if lance executes everything as planned he’s got a hammerlock. and even if it all doesn’t go as planned cause there’s a few wildcards brewing, my money’s still on him. but there’s still half a race to go and with that a lot of opportunity for murphy’s law to step up and eat some more. on paper the yankees should be frickn crushin’ everyone…and that’s why they play the games[/quote]
well, obviously, you have to make an allowance for the unexpected. However, we can’t predict that - all we can go on are past results and the known capabilities of the main contenders.
So, barring any incredibly random clusterfuck, Lance should win his 7th Tour.
But, ultimately, you’re right - in the TDF, ANYTHING can (and sometimes does) happen. (as you’ve more than pointed out.)
This last week should be fun, for sure.
rasmussen sure sounds like he thinks he’s up to it. from procycling:
<<<Lance Armstrong is not invincible. I?m certain he can be beaten, and I believe that I can be the one to beat him.? Michael Rasmussen, second on GC, 38 seconds behind Armstrong, seems to be gathering confidence by the minute, writes Susanne Horsdal.
In Friday?s edition of the Danish paper BT, Rasmussen further explains that he has noticed Armstrong showing signs of weakness compared to earlier years. ?In other years he?s more or less just taken off from the peloton once we reached the first climb. And he neither could nor did on Tuesday?s stage to Courchevel,? says the Rabobank rider, who?s got his systems set on attack once the race reaches the Pyrenees.
?I?ve never been riding as fast as I am right now, so now?s the time to take a chance. The only chance I have is to attack in the Pyrenees because I need to increase the distance to those close to me on the GC. Its riders like Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich and Santiago Botero I need to distance. They all ride a better time trial than me. But I believe that I can beat a rider like Basso even though he?s been riding strongly. I still believe that I?m better than him in the mountains,? says Rasmussen.>>>
hahaha frickn amazing what hanging with lance for a couple days can make you feel like you can do. so hopefully ras will try and put his money where his mouth is. still even if he could drop lance for time in the pyrenees, which i don’t think he’s got the horsepower for , like oarsman said he’d neeed a huuuge lead going into the time trial …like what ? six minutes ??
vino could still try something too but he doesn’t seem to have the team to help him . doesn’t seem like ullrich and kloden would work for him…
Stage 14 Report
Armstrong Extends Lead in Pyrenees
By JOHN LEICESTER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago
AX-3 DOMAINES, France - Lance Armstrong, his arms glistening with sweat, extended his overall lead as the Tour de France scaled the Pyrenees on Saturday in the 14th stage.
George Totschnig of Austria won the stage, but Armstrong, riding without his teammates, who couldn’t keep up on the last two climbs, held off his main rivals to finish second ahead of Italy’s Ivan Basso, with Germany’s Jan Ullrich fourth.
He now is 2 minutes, 46 seconds ahead of Basso and 4:34 in front of Ullrich.
The six-time champion’s overall lead over Mickael Rasmussen of Denmark grew to 1 minute, 41 seconds. Rasmussen, who was just 38 seconds behind at the start of the day, was eighth on the stage to the ski station of Ax-3 Domaines.
The brutal, 137-mile trek took place under a scorching sun that. Armstrong’s arms had a sheen of sweat and riders poured water over themselves to try to cool down.
Armstrong’s teammates fell behind when Ullrich’s rival T-Mobile squad piled on speed during the day’s hardest ascent, a 9.4-mile climb over the Port de Pailheres. It peaks at 6,565 feet and is so hard that it is classified as “hors categorie” - or unrated.
“T-Mobile was basically sprinting,” Armstrong said. “The downside was that I was left alone.”
But he was up to the challenge.
“You either fight back or you run away,” he said.
But Armstrong was unfazed. He stayed with Ullrich, Basso and others, and then dished out some punishment of his own on the final climb up to Ax-3 Domaines, powering up the ascent. Neither Basso nor Ullrich could get past him - and in the end, he left both behind.
“It was a very tactical day, with the attack from the T-Mobile,” Armstrong strong. “The heat, the distance, it was hard, it was a very hard day.”
The 34-year-old Totschnig was part of a group of riders that escaped from the main pack shortly after the start in the Mediterranean town of Agde. He managed to shake off the other riders on the hardest ascent, and rode up the final climb alone.
He finished 56 seconds ahead of Armstrong for his first stage win in the Tour and broke into tears. The Austrian’s time was 5 hours, 43 minutes, 43 seconds. He jumped eight spots in the overall standings to 14th, still 10:39 behind Armstrong.
“An extraordinary day,” Totschnig said. “I didn’t think it was possible to win a stage like that.”
Armstrong’s highest-placed teammate was Yaroslav Popovych, 16th in the stage, 4:18 off Totschnig’s time. Usually, Armstrong looks to his support riders to lead him up the Tour’s climbs. But they have not been quite as dominant this year. Armstrong also found himself alone with T-Mobile rivals on a climb in the second week of the three-week race.
T-Mobile racer Alexandre Vinokourov had said before Saturday’s stage that their aim was “to make Lance’s team explode.”
“We’ll attack from the first bump,” he said. But at the end of the day, he had to concede defeat. Vinokourov, third in 2003, was 11th on Saturday, falling back to 7:09 behind Armstrong overall.
“Lance was strong,” he said.
On Sunday comes what Armstrong called “the hardest day of the Tour” - a relentless 127.7-mile route from Lezat-sur-Leze that has a succession of five climbs before an “hors categorie” uphill finish to Saint-Lary Soulan.
Armstrong said the final ascent is critical, especially after an exhausting day on Saturday.
Monday is a rest day before the last high mountain stage. Then come three less-demanding portions before a time trial on the Tour’s penultimate day. Armstrong hopes to win that stage and then ride into Paris to collect a seventh consecutive title on July 24 - when he will retire.
Mufasa
Armstrong is going to make a big move in tomorrow’s killer mtn stage. Just wait for that final climb, he won’t be holding anything back at that point.
Today he was conserving energy, although he was still the best climber.
as for Rasmussen, that dude is STICK! He belongs in that anerexic thread.
He says he won’t eat food after dinner, for fear of GAINING weight! I would say it is impossible for any tour ride to not LOSE weight during the tour. Rasmussen is a stick boy with an eating disorder and big mouth that his legs can’t back up!
[quote]KiloSprinter wrote:
Armstrong is going to make a big move in tomorrow’s killer mtn stage. Just wait for that final climb, he won’t be holding anything back at that point.
Today he was conserving energy, although he was still the best climber.
as for Rasmussen, that dude is STICK! He belongs in that anerexic thread.
He says he won’t eat food after dinner, for fear of GAINING weight! I would say it is impossible for any tour ride to not LOSE weight during the tour. Rasmussen is a stick boy with an eating disorder and big mouth that his legs can’t back up![/quote]
rasmussen = 6 ft 132lbs !!!
I think seeing these 2 days where Lance was stuck without his teammates and still being able to hold his own just shows how fuckin good he is.
All the haters that say Lance is nothing without his team can go suck a dick.
And Rasmussen needs to shut his mouth. In the opening TT, Rasmussen finished 174th!!!. Going into today’s stage, Lance had 1:41 on Rasmussen. At the end of the stage Lance extended that gap by 1:28 for a grand total of: 2:09.
In the opening TT which was 19km, Rasmussen finished approximately 3 minutes behind Lance. The stage 20 TT is 55km. Assuming their TT performances will approximately be the same, extrapolating the distance and time will lead us to believe that Rasmussen will lose a little less than 9 fuckin minutes …in one stage.
Theres guys that are cocky and are able to back it up (like Lance) and guys that are cocky, and finish 174th in time trials (like Rasmussen).
So 2 groups of people: 1.)The Lance Haters, and 2.)Mickael Rasmussen can both suck a dick.
[quote]chrismcl wrote:
I think seeing these 2 days where Lance was stuck without his teammates and still being able to hold his own just shows how fuckin good he is.
All the haters that say Lance is nothing without his team can go suck a dick.
And Rasmussen needs to shut his mouth. In the opening TT, Rasmussen finished 174th!!!. Going into today’s stage, Lance had 1:41 on Rasmussen. At the end of the stage Lance extended that gap by 1:28 for a grand total of: 2:09.
In the opening TT which was 19km, Rasmussen finished approximately 3 minutes behind Lance. The stage 20 TT is 55km. Assuming their TT performances will approximately be the same, extrapolating the distance and time will lead us to believe that Rasmussen will lose a little less than 9 fuckin minutes …in one stage.
Theres guys that are cocky and are able to back it up (like Lance) and guys that are cocky, and finish 174th in time trials (like Rasmussen).
So 2 groups of people: 1.)The Lance Haters, and 2.)Mickael Rasmussen can both suck a dick.[/quote]
yeah but at least he’s taking his shot at the stars and landing on the moon…kom and a maybe podium in paris is nothing to sneeze at. should be some killer racing for the 2 and 3 spots !!!
Stage 15 Report
Lance increases his lead to 2:46…and his best friend on the Team WINS the stage!
2 hours ago
George Hincapie of the U.S. reacts as he crosses …
SAINT-LARY-SOULAN, France - As Lance Armstrong prepared for what may be hardest stage of the Tour de France, the widow of a friend and teammate killed in a crash a decade ago told him to go for the win. That was the only thing that didn’t work out for Armstrong Sunday, which he called “a perfect day.”
Armstrong settled for watching his most loyal teammate, genial New Yorker George Hincapie, pedal to victory high in the Pyrenees - his first-ever individual stage victory in the Tour and the first by one of Armstrong’s support riders.
And, taking care of business, Armstrong solidified his overall race lead in the brutal 15th stage - staying on track to retire with a seventh consecutive Tour victory next Sunday.
At the finish, the two riders - friends since they were teenagers - hugged and Armstrong gave a thumbs-up.
“This is a dream for me,” the 32-year-old Hincapie said. “I’m really in a state of shock.”
The 33-year-old Armstrong called Hincapie “my biggest guy, my biggest friend on the team.”
“We’ve been riding together since we were 17,” said Armstrong, who finished seventh. “The guy is one of the best riders in cycling. Period. I’m so proud of him.”
Usually, Armstrong’s teammates devote themselves entirely to making sure that he wins, and have few chances for Tour glory of their own. Their only wins have been collective ones - in team time trials that Armstrong’s squad won for the third consecutive time this year.
But in the sun-baked 127.7-mile trek up six mountain climbs, Hincapie joined a group of riders that broke away from the main pack, which included Armstrong.
Hincapie said he went with that group thinking that Armstrong would catch up to him later in the stage. But the breakaway group built a lead of more than 18 minutes. At that point, Armstrong’s team manager gave Hincapie the green light to ride for himself.
“I just started thinking about the win,” Hincapie said. “For it to work out is just a dream come true.”
Hincapie and Oscar Pereiro, having shaken off the rest of their group, fought for the victory alone on the final and hardest climb to the Pla d’Adet ski station above the Pyrenean town of Saint-Lary-Soulan.
There, Hincapie beat the Spaniard with a sprint finish, shaking his head in disbelief as he crossed the line.
Hincapie is the only one of Armstrong’s eight teammates to have been with the Texan for all of his six Tour victories. The last time the Tour visited Pla d’Adet, in 2001, Armstrong won - on the way to his third Tour title.
“To win a stage in the Tour de France is special, but to win a stage like this which is arguably the hardest stage of the Tour is a big, big accomplishment. He deserves it,” Armstrong said.
Hincapie’s time was 6 hours, 6 minutes, 38 seconds. Pereiro was 6 seconds back. Three other members of their breakaway group placed third, fourth and fifth.
Behind them, Armstrong again held off his strongest rivals - Italian Ivan Basso and German Jan Ullrich.
Basso was sixth, with Armstrong right behind. They both finished 5 minutes and 4 seconds behind Hincapie. The effort moved Basso up to second in the overall standings, but he still trails Armstrong by 2:46.
Ullrich struggled on the final climb, placing ninth. His overall deficit to Armstrong grew to 5:58.
Mickael Rasmussen of Denmark, who had been second overall, 1:41 back, fell to third, now 3:09 behind Armstrong. Hincapie is 18th overall.
Armstrong said his lead is “more secure,” but that hard racing lies ahead in the last week of the three-week event.
“You never know, you go to a village and take a turn too fast and break your collarbone - Tour de France over. So you have to be realistic,” Armstrong said. “We have a week to go and a lot of things can get in the way.”
Crowds are among the potential risks. Some fans ran dangerously alongside the riders up Sunday’s climbs. One was knocked down by a motorbike carrying a television cameraman who was filming the race. Race organizers said they had no word on whether the fan was hurt.
The riders passed a monument marking the spot where Fabio Casartelli, Armstrong’s former teammate, fell and died on July 18, 1995.
Casartelli, the 1992 Olympic road race champion, suffered head injuries in the crash after completing the difficult Col du Portet d’Aspet climb. He was traveling at about 53 mph.
“The feeling hasn’t changed over the years,” Armstrong said after meeting at the start with Casartelli’s parents, widow and 10-year-old son at his Discovery Channel team bus.
“I still get a tear in my eye and still get goose bumps when I pass that incredibly beautiful monument.”
Mufasa
The Tour is oficially over. Barring catastrophe, Lance has it in the bag.
Big galoot (for a cyclist) Hincapie winning a mountain stage and 3 Americans in the Top 7 overall.
Fuckin’ ay!
all around good show. A great day for American cycling.
[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
The Tour is oficially over. Barring catastrophe, Lance has it in the bag.
Big galoot (for a cyclist) Hincapie winning a mountain stage and 3 Americans in the Top 7 overall.
Fuckin’ ay!
all around good show. A great day for American cycling. [/quote]
Hopefully you didn’t jinx him with that first sentence. knock on wood
[quote]chrismcl wrote:
I think seeing these 2 days where Lance was stuck without his teammates and still being able to hold his own just shows how fuckin good he is.
All the haters that say Lance is nothing without his team can go suck a dick.
And Rasmussen needs to shut his mouth. In the opening TT, Rasmussen finished 174th!!!. Going into today’s stage, Lance had 1:41 on Rasmussen. At the end of the stage Lance extended that gap by 1:28 for a grand total of: 2:09.
In the opening TT which was 19km, Rasmussen finished approximately 3 minutes behind Lance. The stage 20 TT is 55km. Assuming their TT performances will approximately be the same, extrapolating the distance and time will lead us to believe that Rasmussen will lose a little less than 9 fuckin minutes …in one stage.
Theres guys that are cocky and are able to back it up (like Lance) and guys that are cocky, and finish 174th in time trials (like Rasmussen).
So 2 groups of people: 1.)The Lance Haters, and 2.)Mickael Rasmussen can both suck a dick.[/quote]
Not really sure what the point is here, but I can honestly say that I feel a little stupider after reading this.
[quote]chrismcl wrote:
I think seeing these 2 days where Lance was stuck without his teammates and still being able to hold his own just shows how fuckin good he is.
All the haters that say Lance is nothing without his team can go suck a dick.
[/quote]
Sigh
Without his team, he would have a much harder time being #1, if he even could be.
People that know the sport all get this. One reason he runs the field is his team actually rides like a team, rather than riding as a bunch of individuals with the same jersey…
[quote]seanc wrote:
chrismcl wrote:
I think seeing these 2 days where Lance was stuck without his teammates and still being able to hold his own just shows how fuckin good he is.
All the haters that say Lance is nothing without his team can go suck a dick.
Sigh
Without his team, he would have a much harder time being #1, if he even could be.
People that know the sport all get this. One reason he runs the field is his team actually rides like a team, rather than riding as a bunch of individuals with the same jersey…
[/quote]
Right-the team functions exactly how it should. And does it very well. It doesn’t take away from Lance’s acheivement’s though. Bike riding is a team sport. No one knowledgable would say otherwise. Go, Lance!