I’ve been on TRT for 3 years now. Played the game with a reluctant and partially educated dr to end up taking 120mg a week in split doses. I worked up to this dose after 100mg every 2 weeks, 80mg, and 100mg a week. 120mg a week ended up being a good max dosage for me as I need no AI and push upper boundaries in all T labs and keep my E2 in check. My dr. Has me do labs 2x a year and for the last year or so I’ve been seeing my T values go up. When I was working my way up to my max dose 80mg had always put my total T around 520, 100mg put me at 720mg and 120 put me around 940 range for these 250-1100. Within the last year I’ve been seeing these values go up on the same dosages. Just this week i did labs and my dr. Only wanted to test total T for some reason. Roughly 100mg a week had me at 1042 TT 300-890. I should have mentioned all previous tests were by the lc ms/ms method. Range 250-1100. I’m confused what could be changing in my body that these values are increasing on the same amount of T. I do supplement with a multivitamin, grapeseed, turmeric, co q10, DIM with calcium d-glucate, rez-v, l-Theanine, 7-keto and ZMA at night. I’m wondering if the zinc supplemention through the multi and ZMA could be causing the increase in T values. Thought one of the prominent TRT Dr’s used zinc on low with low doses of TRT for this reason. If anyone has any input, I’d like to hear it. Thanks in advance.
I’ve seen my labs change without so much as a dosage adjustment, it’s out of your control. Your body doesn’t regulate testosterone quite the same anymore, your started TRT and shutdown your HPTA and lost the LH and gnrh pulsatility and redefined homeostasis.
When you had natural testosterone, when the body’s needs a change, the testosterone levels changed along with it, that’s why there is a natural daily fluctuation and why levels are different every time to run labs.
Thanks for the input @systemlord. I guess that’s plausible. I feel great and the rest of my labs were spot on. Problem is my dr. Got scared of that T level even though that result would have been fine in a 250-1100 range. Matter of fact in June I was at 1006 250-1100 and he didn’t have a problem. Anything I can tell him about the results and how these labs compare? After 3 years I thought I was done having my protocol jerked around and felt like I was learned and pretty much dialed in. Feel like I may be starting over at maybe even having to find another Dr. If necessary. Thoughts?
Over the years, I’ve seen total testosterone levels fluctuate from mid 700s to 1100. Usually hang around 880-920. Can’t say I felt different though.
I think, sometimes, the injection may not absorb as quickly. If you inject too fast it may form a bolus which will take a while longer to diffuse into the muscle. Most of the time, there probably isn’t an explanation.
As long as you feel good, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Damn, scared doctors are not good……….
Yeah no kidding. Scared him enough that he wants me to dial back to 60mg every 5 days rather than every 3.5 days. That’s 84mg a week. A decent decrease from 100mg-120mg a week. Guess I may have to play the game again and see what my labs end up in March then go from there. I do feel strongly about continuing to use the lc ms/ms lab for the sake of consistency as well as a much more forgiving range. Thing is that’s probably my peak at an every 3.5 day interval. I bet just about anyone taking 100mg a week in one shot would be over in about any range, especially in a range of 300-890, if they tested between 48-72hrs after injection.
This is all your doctor should be concerned about, the numbers don’t tell the whole story, how you feel matters most. The reference range used to go all the way to 1500, nobody was dropping dead at these levels.
I have been battling the exact same problem, so much that I started calculating TT per mg. Mine has increased at the same dose.
Recently I increased mine a little bit and I am feeling better though. Trying to drop the math and numbers and go by feel and wait a couple months now. I also notice my balls shrink and pull up when my dose is too high. Usually erectile function goes next. I’ve tried to use this to gauge an upper limit without always going for bloodwork. Not saying this would work for everyone or is even proper though.
My biggest challenge will be seeing a few doctors here for pituitary surgery, and I suspect they may not be thrilled to see my TT close to or over 1000.
Could be the added Zinc as it is a natural aromatase inhibitor.
I’d drop the DIM as it can tank Estradiol. Also DIM is an anti-androgen.
Yeah I’m gonna probably take this whole period between labs off of all supps and see what happens. I got on the DIM and most of the other mentioned supps as a way to mitigate e2. Had that old gyno paranoia on occasion if my e2 was up. Then I’d start looking in the mirror wondering if my damn nipples always looked a certain way. I don’t think I’ve never really had DIM tank my E2. It’s never seemed to feel like it. I’ve never tanked but gotten low messing around with Aromasin on occasion. Matter of fact I wondered if the DIM was doing anything at all at times bc my e2 levels when tested seemed in line with where they had always been, but I never did extensive testing without it. I’m real curious about the zinc though.
Here is how I started my daily protocol for the first time, 10mg daily and 7 days later I felt like absolute shit, I dropped down to 7mg and started feel great, then 2 and half weeks later I tried 8mg and felt a little like I did at 10mg daily, dropped back down to 7mg and that’s it. I don’t care about the numbers because if I go by the numbers I’ll never feel good.
I could get 350 or 450 and I don’t care which, as long as I feel good.
That’s so wild that you get by on such a small dose.
I do know when I’ve tried lower doses (whatever 100mg/week is) I definitely feel worse.
The last week at 12mg/day has been wonderful minus stubborn ED and this ripping heart rate (which I suspect is more related to the process of tapering/quitting nicotine in my life cleanup).
My cypionate dose is even lower, 5mg daily (35mg weekly). The cypionate burns through my vitamin C much quicker which is why I’m on the enanthate. Fives days after I started 7mg daily, my vitamin C was crushed and I had to act quickly. I was at work and know we have orange juice in the basement. That was last night.
I had erection for 8 months on my natural testosterone (91-146 ng/dL), but they were waning towards the end and would have ceased eventually. Some guys lose erections the moment they drop below 350-400, I will thrive at these levels.
My estrogen at 417 ng/dL is 26-33.
Well to bring this thread full circle I received an unexpected phone call from my Dr.’s office this past monday and They called to tell me my testosterone labs came back normal. So I logged on to the portal and it appears my Dr. Ran two sets of labs for T. An immunoassay as well as an LC MS/MS comprehensive for T. I think he was only gonna run the immunoassay until the nurse came in to draw blood and I started asking her about which T test he ordered so she drew a plain red top just incase. This result was exactly what I would have expected.
total t 971 250-1100
Free T 144 46-224
Bioavailable 316 110-575
SHBG 34 10-50
Albumin 4.8 3.6-5.1
seems the consensus is that the lc ms/ms is the standard for testing T and the immunoassay can overestimate T. If anyone has any influence with their Dr or a say in their treatment, then I would never let them use the immunoassay method for a T lab. Of course most know that doesn’t tell the whole story anyway. So in the end my dr. Agreed to allow me to stay on my previous dose of 120mg a week rather than cut me back to 60mg every 5 days which only amounts to 84mg a week.
My next puzzle is the fact that my SHBG went up from what has always been 15-22 to 34. Don’t know if this is good bad or otherwise but I know my free T at peak would be pretty high even at 100-120mg a week when it was lower. Now it’s just a little above the middle which theoretically could call for a dose increase if anything. I was briefly looking to see what could have changed that and it appears through one paper I found that rezveratrol can increase SHBG. Guess that results in smoother more consistent Free T levels. I would think that would be a desired effect.
Total T is irrelevant, only the Free T matters. Your Free T is more than likely overestimated and actually lower than stated.
You’re on TRT and might as well get the full benefits and that means Free T at the top of the ranges, if your doctor isn’t willing to allow for a dosage increase, time to move on to greener pastures.
Your SHBG fluctuates all the time, you work out, it increases.
Thanks for the input @systemlord. I’m aware of the points you made regarding total t and free t etc. I’ve actually had free quite high when SHBG was 15-21. It was out of the range often. Can’t say it was any more magical or that I felt better then. I mean I’ve really felt good almost the whole time I’ve been on and what makes me feel the best is TRT, with lots of weight training, a clean diet and probably most importantly quality sleep. My dr. has come a long way and is pretty receptive to my requests but like a lot of physicians I wonder if he thinks I’m trying to play dr. It’s all good though. Insurance is paying, i do bloods 2x a year unless I want to run my own. Guess I’m willing to put up with it for now. If he becomes unreasonable I will move on but I can’t imagine it’s easy to find a trt dr. From what I’ve seen. My situation doesn’t appear to be too uncommon. As far as my SHBG goes, in 3 years it’s never been this high. In June 19 it was in mid to high teens. I started taking Rez V in August and now it’s 34. I’ve been lifting consistently for the last 4 years. I just thought I would share this information and that it could be useful for other members of the forum.
It is most likely good. Higher SHBG is correlated with longevity. Although high androgen levles can lower SHBG, so can being unhealthy in some specific ways. You are likely healthier in those ways now and got a bump in SHBG to show for it.
I’m never going to die then
You are actually living in Matrix.
Can you elaborate on that and provide some scientific data? Ive heard all kinds of legends about DIM but at the end the only thing I found scientifically proven about it is that it helps clear out estrogens quickly from the body