L. Armstrong to be Stripped of All Titles

Off Topic
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[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
A number of years ago I had a big debate with a guy called Rainjack over Roger Clemens. RJ said Clemens was clean, I said no way, you don’t suddenly get better at 40 when you had been on the decline unless you were getting help. I was absolutely right (as usual) but if I was sitting on some kind of jury and presented with that type of logic as PROOF, I would LAUGH OUT FUCKING LOUD.

They need more than conjecture, new rules applied to the past and coerced witnesses to justly go after this guy.[/quote]

There are multiple WITNESSES who are willing to testify in court!

It is laughable that you are dismissing over a dozen separate individuals who have a wealth of circumstantial evidence.

Tyler Hamilton who was on LA’s team said doping was absolutely rampant at the time and was led by LA. He can give dozens of dates, locations and examples of what went on in depth.

Others can corroborate alot of this and have their own similar examples.

There is also EVIDENCE of his blood containing EPO during his career.

WHY would ALL of these people lie? Get real, they are not lying. Members of his own fucking team said they were all on drugs.

Again - you and others are just choosing to ignore this in order to argue. As I have said, cycling was/is so full of dopers it would rival pro bodybuilding never mind the NFL.

Phil Heath has never taken a drugs test (i know he doesn’t have to). If he says he has never taken roids, does anyone with KNOWLEDGE of BB believe him? No. Yet plenty of guys who have no idea of what they are talking about would say - maybe he just trains harder/genetics/diet/ did YOU see him inject steroids?!

It is the exact same here. If 9 of the top 10 at the Mr O say they are on roids or failed tests, but the guy who wins says he wasn’t, no one on this site would believe him. Anyone who follows cycling would say the exact same about the TDF at the time.

[/quote]
Not to quibble but you use court very loosely. I know they call it the kangaroo court of sports appeals or something, but it wasn’t even going to be that. It was going to be an arbitration with sealed testimony that would never be public or shown to Armstrong if I am understanding it correctly? The legal court agreed it didn’t have authority so didn’t halt the arbitration, but stated that it found the chance of an unbiased proceeding to be unlikely.

Thats what people have an issue with. He’s going in to be convicted. No lawyer in their right mind would allow their client to be subject to a kangaroo court with dubious authority(they certainly have authority to ban him from competing in the triathalons say, but they cannot strip his tour titles which they try to say they can do :))

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[quote]yolo84 wrote:

Phil Heath has never taken a drugs test (i know he doesn’t have to). If he says he has never taken roids, does anyone with KNOWLEDGE of BB believe him? No. Yet plenty of guys who have no idea of what they are talking about would say - maybe he just trains harder/genetics/diet/ did YOU see him inject steroids?!

[/quote]

If USADA decided to go after Phil Heath I’d be on here posting that it’s a witch hunt. Arnold is probably a more likely target for them though.

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latest news on cyclingnews.com is lance is basically busted…

just wish this cheat would just admit he took drugs his whole cycling career… who cares, all cyclist do…

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Which is why I don’t understand why they’re gunning for one guy? It’d make more sense to just vacate the races entirely than hand his title to the 2nd place finisher (who was also doping). If the bulk of people are using, and you know it, but you only go after one or two people…how is that remotely even handed or fair or good for the sport?

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paulwhite, i totally hear ya… i have no idea what they do. EVERY cyclist cheats… how do you determine the winner?? i dont know.why do they signal out lance? i dont know. maybe they want to DESTROY the most powerful, winnningest stage racer these last dozen year and set an example?? the best athletes in every sport cheats. thats ONE of the reasons they are at the top. sure they are better than 99%, but they also take the illeagle stuff to keep them there too…EVERY SPORT.i seen it when i was there years ago, the DIVISION 3 guys taking stuff…i love the sport, but its been dirty 30 years since i been following it, and i bet its stays dirty 30+ more years. athletes do whatever to make it to the top, stay at the top to make the $$$.thats the way sports are and probably always will be…

186

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Not that this really matters either way, but I know a handful of people who’ve met Armstrong personally and to a person they all say he’s as big an asshole as you’d ever meet. Maybe this is karma.[/quote]

I’ve heard this too. But it’s not the point. This attempt to discredit him is still bullshit. I wouldn’t be surprised if we start hearing garbage like 'roid rage is the reason he’s not a nice man. That would be the typical M.O. for the media.

There’s no doubt he’s a terrific athlete, perhaps he’s also crappy person. Either way, PEDs have nothing to do with it.

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bobparr
the hundreds of cyclists i train with/trained with, 90+ % are on EPO, which dose not effect your mood swings…
eddy merckx, the greatest cyclist by far of all time got busted on drugs a few times… MOST of the gteatest classic racers of all time, specialists in the one day races, all got busted…lots didnt get caught, but cyclists know they were on the drugs too…
i either hope lance finally mans up and admits he cheated, or the guys wanting to bust him, hurry and do so, so all the NON cyclists, that know nothing how the cycling game really works, will hush…

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He might be innocent but look on the bright side. No more of those stupid yellow wristbands worn by d-bags as substitutes for real causes.
-Tom

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Sure do appear to be a whole lot of sour grapes on this site lately.

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[quote]spk wrote:
bobparr
the hundreds of cyclists i train with/trained with, 90+ % are on EPO, which dose not effect your mood swings…
eddy merckx, the greatest cyclist by far of all time got busted on drugs a few times… MOST of the gteatest classic racers of all time, specialists in the one day races, all got busted…lots didnt get caught, but cyclists know they were on the drugs too…
i either hope lance finally mans up and admits he cheated, or the guys wanting to bust him, hurry and do so, so all the NON cyclists, that know nothing how the cycling game really works, will hush…[/quote]

I know EPO doesn’t affect your mood. I was being facetious about how the stupid media seizes any opportunity to make anyone who has used steroids seem like a would-be homicidal maniac. Remember that pro wrestler a few years back who killed his wife and kids and then hanged himself? The media made sure to pin that on steroids, of course. It’s disgusting.

Nowadays, most reasonable people look back at the “Reefer Madness” attitude toward pot from a few decades ago and laugh at how exaggerated and irrational it all was. Yet the same thing is going on now with regard to steroids.

Personally, I don’t care if Armstrong used steroids. They say everyone does in cycling, rules be damned. So, the fact he is probably the greatest cyclist of all time means what? You can’t attribute his success to drug use if all or nearly all of them are assisted, can you?

I’m also disgusted by how Congress goes after drug-using ballplayers. Here we have a bunch of losers who can’t even do their job and pass a budget for nearly four years, who waste billions of taxpayer dollars and constantly beg for more because they can’t make due with the trillions they already have – and yet they feel they are in a position to criticize people who are at least SUCCEEDING at something? I have far more respect for a “cheating” athlete who works his ass off to win than for any parasitic politician.

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[quote]BobParr wrote:

I’m also disgusted by how Congress goes after drug-using ballplayers. Here we have a bunch of losers who can’t even do their job and pass a budget for nearly four years, who waste billions of taxpayer dollars and constantly beg for more because they can’t make due with the trillions they already have – and yet they feel they are in a position to criticize people who are at least SUCCEEDING at something? I have far more respect for a “cheating” athlete who works his ass off to win than for any parasitic politician.[/quote]

If I posted gifs and stuff like that, this is where I would post that gif of the mobster looking guy giving a steady, intense applause. Very well said BP.

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[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:

I’m also disgusted by how Congress goes after drug-using ballplayers. Here we have a bunch of losers who can’t even do their job and pass a budget for nearly four years, who waste billions of taxpayer dollars and constantly beg for more because they can’t make due with the trillions they already have – and yet they feel they are in a position to criticize people who are at least SUCCEEDING at something? I have far more respect for a “cheating” athlete who works his ass off to win than for any parasitic politician.[/quote]

If I posted gifs and stuff like that, this is where I would post that gif of the mobster looking guy giving a steady, intense applause. Very well said BP.[/quote]

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[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:

I’m also disgusted by how Congress goes after drug-using ballplayers. Here we have a bunch of losers who can’t even do their job and pass a budget for nearly four years, who waste billions of taxpayer dollars and constantly beg for more because they can’t make due with the trillions they already have – and yet they feel they are in a position to criticize people who are at least SUCCEEDING at something? I have far more respect for a “cheating” athlete who works his ass off to win than for any parasitic politician.[/quote]

If I posted gifs and stuff like that, this is where I would post that gif of the mobster looking guy giving a steady, intense applause. Very well said BP.[/quote]
[/quote]

Heh. That “mobster looking guy” is Orson Freakin Wells in Citizen Kane.

Other than that, I heartily agree.

*edited for clarity

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p.s. I should qualify before Citizen Kane has a fit: it’s professional sports where I support a steroids ban, not amateur sports.

I see it as a labor rights issue: having a career in sports shouldn’t require ingesting steroids.
-Tom