so i was thinking…
the more you tuck your chin the further forward your temples come forward
whats worse getting hit in the temple or chin?
Temple has a more direct path to the brain but i imagine hitting the chin would create a ‘whipping affect’ for the brain against the skull (if that makes sense)
[quote]stupidlikeafox wrote:
so i was thinking…
the more you tuck your chin the further forward your temples come forward
whats worse getting hit in the temple or chin?
Temple has a more direct path to the brain but i imagine hitting the chin would create a ‘whipping affect’ for the brain against the skull (if that makes sense)
[/quote]
Chin is far worse. Fighters would not keep their chins down if getting hit in the temple was worse.
definitely i prefer getting hit on the temple than the chin.
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.[/quote]
yeah somewhat true, but ironically guys like foreman and archie moore used a defense that sorta protected their chin more and they were pretty fine after their careers. (moore fought like 200+ fights at LHW.
I used to spar quite a bit and found that blows to my forehead (straight punches) did less than say looping punches to the side of my head to knock my equilibrium astray. I would attribute this to the fact that the cervical spine supports your head when your head is snapped back from a straight punch vs one that hits you from the side or jaw where there is less neck support and your head is jostled around more from the punch.
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.[/quote]
yeah somewhat true, but ironically guys like foreman and archie moore used a defense that sorta protected their chin more and they were pretty fine after their careers. (moore fought like 200+ fights at LHW.
I used to spar quite a bit and found that blows to my forehead (straight punches) did less than say looping punches to the side of my head to knock my equilibrium astray. I would attribute this to the fact that the cervical spine supports your head when your head is snapped back from a straight punch vs one that hits you from the side or jaw where there is less neck support and your head is jostled around more from the punch. [/quote]
Things that knock you out are not going to be the same things that make you punch drunk. Don’t confuse the two.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.[/quote]
yeah somewhat true, but ironically guys like foreman and archie moore used a defense that sorta protected their chin more and they were pretty fine after their careers. (moore fought like 200+ fights at LHW.
I used to spar quite a bit and found that blows to my forehead (straight punches) did less than say looping punches to the side of my head to knock my equilibrium astray. I would attribute this to the fact that the cervical spine supports your head when your head is snapped back from a straight punch vs one that hits you from the side or jaw where there is less neck support and your head is jostled around more from the punch. [/quote]
Things that knock you out are not going to be the same things that make you punch drunk. Don’t confuse the two.[/quote]
Not sure if I understand… The same thing “punches to the head” can KO you and make you punch drunk. I’d hazard to guess the more punch drunk you become, the easier you will KO’d. I’m pretty sure their is a relationship in there somewhere lol
Anyway I just read up on this again to make sure what I had read in the past was accurate or not. Best I could find was on Wikipedia, search Dementia Pujilistica, and Concussion.
Source Wikipedia
“Rotational force is key in concussion. Punches in boxing deliver more rotational force to the head than impacts in sports such as American football, and boxing carries a higher risk of concussion than football”
Now every KO or punch does not lead to a concussion, I’m not implying that, but the accumalation of concussions does increase the likelihood of being ‘punch drunk’ or Dementia Pujilistica
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.[/quote]
yeah somewhat true, but ironically guys like foreman and archie moore used a defense that sorta protected their chin more and they were pretty fine after their careers. (moore fought like 200+ fights at LHW.
I used to spar quite a bit and found that blows to my forehead (straight punches) did less than say looping punches to the side of my head to knock my equilibrium astray. I would attribute this to the fact that the cervical spine supports your head when your head is snapped back from a straight punch vs one that hits you from the side or jaw where there is less neck support and your head is jostled around more from the punch. [/quote]
Things that knock you out are not going to be the same things that make you punch drunk. Don’t confuse the two.[/quote]
Not sure if I understand… The same thing “punches to the head” can KO you and make you punch drunk. I’d hazard to guess the more punch drunk you become, the easier you will KO’d. I’m pretty sure their is a relationship in there somewhere lol
Anyway I just read up on this again to make sure what I had read in the past was accurate or not. Best I could find was on Wikipedia, search Dementia Pujilistica, and Concussion.
Source Wikipedia
“Rotational force is key in concussion. Punches in boxing deliver more rotational force to the head than impacts in sports such as American football, and boxing carries a higher risk of concussion than football”
Now every KO or punch does not lead to a concussion, I’m not implying that, but the accumalation of concussions does increase the likelihood of being ‘punch drunk’ or Dementia Pujilistica[/quote]
That’s not what I’m saying.
What I’m saying is that wherever you take the blows - the chin, the forehead, the side, whatever - you can get punch drunk. It doesn’t have to do with getting hit more on the chin than on the forehead, or more on the side of the head than on the forehead.
You get punched in the head, you run the risks associated.
Just cause you get pegged once and lose your balance doesn’t mean that if you keep getting hit in that spot, as opposed to another spot, you will or won’t get punch drunk. It’s the repeated blows to the head that do it, not whether you protect your chin or not, per se.
And Foreman is a moron. I wouldn’t say he isn’t punch drunk at all. But, even if he wasn’t, remember that he had a pretty big gap of not fighting in his career.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.[/quote]
yeah somewhat true, but ironically guys like foreman and archie moore used a defense that sorta protected their chin more and they were pretty fine after their careers. (moore fought like 200+ fights at LHW.
I used to spar quite a bit and found that blows to my forehead (straight punches) did less than say looping punches to the side of my head to knock my equilibrium astray. I would attribute this to the fact that the cervical spine supports your head when your head is snapped back from a straight punch vs one that hits you from the side or jaw where there is less neck support and your head is jostled around more from the punch. [/quote]
Things that knock you out are not going to be the same things that make you punch drunk. Don’t confuse the two.[/quote]
Not sure if I understand… The same thing “punches to the head” can KO you and make you punch drunk. I’d hazard to guess the more punch drunk you become, the easier you will KO’d. I’m pretty sure their is a relationship in there somewhere lol
Anyway I just read up on this again to make sure what I had read in the past was accurate or not. Best I could find was on Wikipedia, search Dementia Pujilistica, and Concussion.
Source Wikipedia
“Rotational force is key in concussion. Punches in boxing deliver more rotational force to the head than impacts in sports such as American football, and boxing carries a higher risk of concussion than football”
Now every KO or punch does not lead to a concussion, I’m not implying that, but the accumalation of concussions does increase the likelihood of being ‘punch drunk’ or Dementia Pujilistica[/quote]
That’s not what I’m saying.
What I’m saying is that wherever you take the blows - the chin, the forehead, the side, whatever - you can get punch drunk. It doesn’t have to do with getting hit more on the chin than on the forehead, or more on the side of the head than on the forehead.
You get punched in the head, you run the risks associated.
Just cause you get pegged once and lose your balance doesn’t mean that if you keep getting hit in that spot, as opposed to another spot, you will or won’t get punch drunk. It’s the repeated blows to the head that do it, not whether you protect your chin or not, per se.
And Foreman is a moron. I wouldn’t say he isn’t punch drunk at all. But, even if he wasn’t, remember that he had a pretty big gap of not fighting in his career.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, but clearly it states here
Source Wikipedia
“Rotational force is key in concussion. Punches in boxing deliver more rotational force to the head than impacts in sports such as American football, and boxing carries a higher risk of concussion than football”
A straight punch to the forehead did much less damage (which is what Chuvalo mentioned was his key to never being knocked down as a HEAVYWEIGHT boxer in 90 pro fights, that just doesn’t happen). Old footage shows the “archie moore defense” which foreman also adopted. Blows were more likely to hit them on the frontal lobe than anywhere else. Foreman is definately not punch drunk, he is literate and shows no signs as his counterparts like Ali, Frazier etc etc.
Foreman was 2x the fighter any of his colleagues were including Ali. Even though he lost that fight (which he was stupid enough to accept the fight in the heat of Zaire and fell right into Ali’s trap) he demolished every opponent he faced including fighters Ali lost to or went the distance with. He quits at 28 with a 45-2 record, retires for 10 years, then proceeds to make a comeback at 38 regaining the HW championship by going 31-3 lol well into his 40’s. Freak of nature.
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I ssw an interesting interview with George Chuvalo who was a former HW boxer in Ali’s time. He was never knocked down in 90+ fights (though had 2 stoppages). He stated that the reason for his durability (and if you watch footage) was that he protected his jawline, and let his opponents tee off on his forehead area. The guy is in his 70’s today and not even slightly punch drunk like some of the fighters from his time…[/quote]
That’s more luck than anything else. Or a genetic durability that you can’t train.
It’s not the shots to the jaw that make you punch drunk and make your brain stop working - it’s those shots to the frontal lobe.
Same reason football players are having so many problems with their brains after their careers. They never get touched on the chin, but their head takes all the blows.[/quote]
yeah somewhat true, but ironically guys like foreman and archie moore used a defense that sorta protected their chin more and they were pretty fine after their careers. (moore fought like 200+ fights at LHW.
I used to spar quite a bit and found that blows to my forehead (straight punches) did less than say looping punches to the side of my head to knock my equilibrium astray. I would attribute this to the fact that the cervical spine supports your head when your head is snapped back from a straight punch vs one that hits you from the side or jaw where there is less neck support and your head is jostled around more from the punch. [/quote]
Things that knock you out are not going to be the same things that make you punch drunk. Don’t confuse the two.[/quote]
Not sure if I understand… The same thing “punches to the head” can KO you and make you punch drunk. I’d hazard to guess the more punch drunk you become, the easier you will KO’d. I’m pretty sure their is a relationship in there somewhere lol
Anyway I just read up on this again to make sure what I had read in the past was accurate or not. Best I could find was on Wikipedia, search Dementia Pujilistica, and Concussion.
Source Wikipedia
“Rotational force is key in concussion. Punches in boxing deliver more rotational force to the head than impacts in sports such as American football, and boxing carries a higher risk of concussion than football”
Now every KO or punch does not lead to a concussion, I’m not implying that, but the accumalation of concussions does increase the likelihood of being ‘punch drunk’ or Dementia Pujilistica[/quote]
That’s not what I’m saying.
What I’m saying is that wherever you take the blows - the chin, the forehead, the side, whatever - you can get punch drunk. It doesn’t have to do with getting hit more on the chin than on the forehead, or more on the side of the head than on the forehead.
You get punched in the head, you run the risks associated.
Just cause you get pegged once and lose your balance doesn’t mean that if you keep getting hit in that spot, as opposed to another spot, you will or won’t get punch drunk. It’s the repeated blows to the head that do it, not whether you protect your chin or not, per se.
And Foreman is a moron. I wouldn’t say he isn’t punch drunk at all. But, even if he wasn’t, remember that he had a pretty big gap of not fighting in his career.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, but clearly it states here
Source Wikipedia
“Rotational force is key in concussion. Punches in boxing deliver more rotational force to the head than impacts in sports such as American football, and boxing carries a higher risk of concussion than football”
A straight punch to the forehead did much less damage (which is what Chuvalo mentioned was his key to never being knocked down as a HEAVYWEIGHT boxer in 90 pro fights, that just doesn’t happen). Old footage shows the “archie moore defense” which foreman also adopted. Blows were more likely to hit them on the frontal lobe than anywhere else. Foreman is definately not punch drunk, he is literate and shows no signs as his counterparts like Ali, Frazier etc etc.
Foreman was 2x the fighter any of his colleagues were including Ali. Even though he lost that fight (which he was stupid enough to accept the fight in the heat of Zaire and fell right into Ali’s trap) he demolished every opponent he faced including fighters Ali lost to or went the distance with. He quits at 28 with a 45-2 record, retires for 10 years, then proceeds to make a comeback at 38 regaining the HW championship by going 31-3 lol well into his 40’s. Freak of nature.
[/quote]
Who the fuck is talking about concussion?
What I’m saying is that if you get punched in the head repeatedly, you run a high risk of getting punch drunk. It doesn’t matter where you get hit.
I’m well aware that boxers have a higher risk. But I’m also well aware that MANY, MANY former football players are having severe brain trauma issues because of the hits they took in football - and none were on the chin.
Knockdowns do not equal punch drunk. Taking shots to your forehead is a good way to get punch drunk. Taking shots anywhere on your head is a good way to get punch drunk, regardless of where they land.
And finally, Foreman was not anywhere near as good as Ali. That’s why he lost to him. Badly. There’s no question about a knockout victory.
lulz read the article, ‘punch drunk’ or dementia yada yada are the result of repeated concussions. Not sure what else to say… Proof is in the studies…
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
lulz read the article, ‘punch drunk’ or dementia yada yada are the result of repeated concussions. Not sure what else to say… Proof is in the studies…[/quote]
Yes. wikipedia is always right. Forget the empirical evidence of plenty of retarded boxers who have never been ko’d, or the fact that players using helmets who were never knocked unconscious on the field are suffering from brain damage years after their career ended.
You’re clearly correct.
lulz.
one fight doesn’t make a career. Look at buster douglas.
Foreman brutalised every common opponent he had in common with Ali. Ali was 2-1 vs Frazier, 2 decisions, and a controversial stoppage in the Thrilla in Manila in the final round, where he himself Ali was about to quit the same time the referee called it. Meanwhile Foreman beat Frazier twice, both time KO within’ 5 rounds. Ali had 2 split decisions (1W-1L) vs Ken Norton, Foreman KO’d Norton in 2 rounds. Chuvalo lost two decisions to Ali, Foreman TKO’d him in 4. Ali was behind in the scorecard with Ron Lyle, until he KO’d him in the dying seconds of the final round. Foreman KO’d him in 5. The only common opponent that I remember that Ali actually beat that Foreman lost to was Jimmy Young, Ali decision in 12, Foreman lost decision in 12
Foreman, or more his management was stupid enough to fight in Africa, the sweltering heat there was definitely in Ali’s advantage, which is why it happened there. Don King was the promoter need I say more. I love Ali, but there is a hype train or a need for a “HERO” or symbolism, and he was the prime candidate. Personality, charisma etc, he’s unbeatable there. If that fight had happened in air conditioned Madison Square Garden or Vegas, things would of been different. Foreman’s other loss before he retired in his prime was in an outdoor stadium in south america in which the severe dehydration made him quit boxing
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
one fight doesn’t make a career. Look at buster douglas.
Foreman brutalised every common opponent he had in common with Ali. Ali was 2-1 vs Frazier, 2 decisions, and a controversial stoppage in the Thrilla in Manila in the final round, where he himself Ali was about to quit the same time the referee called it. Meanwhile Foreman beat Frazier twice, both time KO within’ 5 rounds. Ali had 2 split decisions (1W-1L) vs Ken Norton, Foreman KO’d Norton in 2 rounds. Chuvalo lost two decisions to Ali, Foreman TKO’d him in 4. Ali was behind in the scorecard with Ron Lyle, until he KO’d him in the dying seconds of the final round. Foreman KO’d him in 5. The only common opponent that I remember that Ali actually beat that Foreman lost to was Jimmy Young, Ali decision in 12, Foreman lost decision in 12
Foreman, or more his management was stupid enough to fight in Africa, the sweltering heat there was definitely in Ali’s advantage, which is why it happened there. Don King was the promoter need I say more. I love Ali, but there is a hype train or a need for a “HERO” or symbolism, and he was the prime candidate. Personality, charisma etc, he’s unbeatable there. If that fight had happened in air conditioned Madison Square Garden or Vegas, things would of been different. Foreman’s other loss was in an outdoor stadium in south america in which the severe dehydration made him retire. [/quote]
A KO loss means you’re the better fighter. That’s why they have the fight.
And it’s not fair to compare KO percentages or who KO’d whom and when. Ali was not a knockout puncher - what he lacked in pure power he made up for in ring generalship, speed, strategy, and a perfect understanding of his opponents.
Styles make fights. Frazier was an excellent foil for Ali, but not for Foreman. Ali was an excellent foil for Foreman, and would have beaten him on any night - especially after Ali beat him the first time.
This is like comparing Mayweather and Pacquaio - May decisions guys, Pac ko’s them. Is Pac better? No. His strategy is different and matches up better with some guys. When he fights May, though, he’s gonna catch it.
So you’re comparing apples and oranges here.
The only thing I can agree is that if Ali-Foreman was fought in Africa, or a sauna, then yes Ali would win 100% of the time. I can’t say Ali was a better fighter than Foreman due to the extreme conditions that fight was fought under. If it was in regular conditions by today’s standard (indoors) I would put much more weight to it. The fact that Ali could not decisively beat (and lost to) many common opponents he had with Foreman, for me anyway is a better measure of who the better fighter was, rather than one fight fought in extreme conditions favoring one fighters (Ali’s) style. I guess you’ll have your opinion on it, I’ll have mine lulz
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
The only thing I can agree is that if Ali-Foreman was fought in Africa, or a sauna, then yes Ali would win 100% of the time. I can’t say Ali was a better fighter than Foreman due to the extreme conditions that fight was fought under. If it was in regular conditions by today’s standard (indoors) I would put much more weight to it. The fact that Ali could not decisively beat (and lost to) many common opponents he had with Foreman, for me anyway is a better measure of who the better fighter was, rather than one fight fought in extreme conditions favoring one fighters (Ali’s) style. I guess you’ll have your opinion on it, I’ll have mine lulz
[/quote]
He couldn’t decisively beat them because he couldn’t knock them out? he didn’t have to knock them out. He was a knockout puncher. He was a boxer, pure and simple.
I don’t think you understand boxing all that well.
pretty much that, and the loss to Norton and Frazier, might as well add Spinks to that but that wasn’t a common opponent. Big whoop, if he won a decision 9 rounds to 6, I’d hardly call that dominating an opponent.
Well that’s pretty sad that you have to revert to saying stuff like “don’t understand boxing very well” but if it makes you feel any better or stroke your ego then, so be it lulz cheers bro
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
pretty much that, and the loss to Norton and Frazier, might as well add Spinks to that but that wasn’t a common opponent. Big whoop, if he won a decision 9 rounds to 6, I’d hardly call that dominating an opponent.
Well that’s pretty sad that you have to revert to saying stuff like “don’t understand boxing very well” but if it makes you feel any better or stroke your ego then, so be it lulz cheers bro[/quote]
Just stating my opinion. If you think that the boxer is inferior to the puncher simply because he’s a boxer and not a puncher, then I don’t think you understand boxing that well.
Especially when the boxer unquestionably knocked the puncher in question out in 8 rounds.
Boxers always give excuses when they lose. Foreman was no different. Had he knocked Ali out in ten, he wouldn’t have said a word about the heat.
Sorry bud.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
pretty much that, and the loss to Norton and Frazier, might as well add Spinks to that but that wasn’t a common opponent. Big whoop, if he won a decision 9 rounds to 6, I’d hardly call that dominating an opponent.
Well that’s pretty sad that you have to revert to saying stuff like “don’t understand boxing very well” but if it makes you feel any better or stroke your ego then, so be it lulz cheers bro[/quote]
Just stating my opinion. If you think that the boxer is inferior to the puncher simply because he’s a boxer and not a puncher, then I don’t think you understand boxing that well.
Especially when the boxer unquestionably knocked the puncher in question out in 8 rounds.
Boxers always give excuses when they lose. Foreman was no different. Had he knocked Ali out in ten, he wouldn’t have said a word about the heat.
Sorry bud.[/quote]
Really has nothing to do with what you think ‘understanding boxing’ is, than a matter of opinion. Again I’ll grant you that on that day Ali was better than Foreman, even though Foreman’s camp was dumb enough to accept the fight in the sweltering heat of Zaire spotting Ali the advantage off the bat, and the eye witness accounts of Ali’s trainers loosening the ropes prior to the fight aiding in the rope-a-dope.
but. I still can’t fathom the lack of weight anyone would put on these stats vs common opponents. You can recite apples and oranges, but they fought the same opponents and had drastically different results. I can’t help but post this info again it’s overwhelming, you can use the boxer vs puncher theory, I’ll use dominating vs struggling against
Ali fought Frazier 3 times, struggled in every fight, won 2 lost 1. all decisions except for the most controversial ref stoppage of it’s time in the thrilla in manilla, where ali said himself he wasn’t going to answer the bell in the 15th round.
Foreman fought Frazier twice, won 2 lost 0. KO in 2nd, KO in 5th. No need for judges to intervene
Ali fought Ken Norton 3 times, 2 wins 1 loss. a split decision win for eash, and a 15 round UD for Ali in the final fight.
Foreman fought Ken Norton once. 1 win. KO in the 2nd round. Norton ducked him the rest of his career.
Ali fought Chuvalo twice, 2-0. 15 and 12 rd unanimous decisions where Dundee said Chuvalo had serverly bruised Ali’s ribs which kept him out for a period of time.
Foreman fought Chuvalo once, 1-0, TKO in the 4th round
the evidence is there to who the more dominant fighter was regardless of what the outcome head to head was or who the boxer and the puncher was. How anyone can deny this is beyond me.
I’m not comparing Buster Douglas to Ali trust me, but the fact that Douglas beat Tyson one night in Tokyo, by no means means he’s the better more dominant fighter.
I guess it’s a matter of opinion, I’d like to hear anyone else pipe in based on the fights stats what they think… I’ll be interestted