Knife Control

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I just question why the talking point…err…excuse me, “LOGIC”, that everyone is safer when err’body gotta gun
[/quote]

Seems to me this is either fact or fiction, not a talking point or logical reasoning to an inconclusive end.

I believe there are stats out their that prove that either everyone is or isn’t safer when the population is armed. [/quote]

That was a tongue in cheek statement…the real meat of it, which Push chose to ignore in favor of taking SMH’s statement out of context in order to chide him, was the fact that even adamant second amendment types are more than willing to give up their guns to enter court which logic dictates is chock full of bad guys…
[/quote]

I don’t know if anyone is “more than willing” to give up their guns to enter court, but what’s the alternative? Not show up and have a failure to appear or contempt of court warrant issued for you?

Courthouses(at least the ones I have been in) are also secure(as much as anywhere-inmates obtain weapons in prison, so it’s hard to say anything is truly secure) facilities.

That said, I don’t necessarily agree with prohibiting weapons in court.[/quote]

I think they should be prohibited. The Judge and Jury need to be not biased, and if someone has a gun and can shoot you if you rule the wrong way. The jury is no longer unbiased.[/quote]

I had already edited my post.

122

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Now, I don’t believe that a courtroom and a college campus are directly analogous here, for obvious reasons. But it is my honest and somewhat informed opinion that a college dorm is far more like a courtroom with regard to the characteristics in question than many people believe. If I ran a university, I simply would not trust the student body enough to allow them to keep guns in their rooms.[/quote]

Take a look at that^

Now: this should be very obvious to you by now, but I pushed the courts point so that you would have to come up with some kind of maxim justifying the revocation of Second Amendment rights. You refused to, of course, but I provided one to you and you did not protest.

From there, I make the point that I believe that college campuses also satisfy the conditions of “too volatile” and “filled with terribly irresponsible people.”

It’s about the maxim. The court simply brought us to the maxim. I don’t think, and haven’t tried to argue, that a direct analogy can be drawn that sets courts and college campuses up as alike in both kind and degree. They are not, in other words, directly analogous.

There is nothing dishonest or terribly difficult to understand about any of this.

If you are still having trouble , focus on this little exercise right here:

[b]Push thinks that courtrooms are so volatile that the benefit of allowing people to bring guns into them is outweighed by the risk. Smh thinks the same thing about college campuses.

smh thinks:

A] That courts are more volatile than campuses.

B] That campuses are more volatile than courts.

C] Impossible to determine from the information given in the italicized sentence.[/b]

The italicized sentence represents my argument in this thread. It does not set up an analogy, as is plainly evident by the fact that the correct answer to the question is C, and C expresses the truth that I have not set courts and universities up in direct analogous relationship to each other. Instead, I have used your example of courts to create a maxim and then applied my example of universities to that maxim. This is not a direct analogy. That’s all.

125

[quote]pushharder wrote:
It’s not about the volatility of the courts but rather the security, outliers notwithstanding.[/quote]

Many campus PD’s are more heavily armed and better trained than their local counterparts.

126

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
It’s not about the volatility of the courts but rather the security, outliers notwithstanding.[/quote]

Many campus PD’s are more heavily armed and better trained than their local counterparts.[/quote]

Indeed.

The homicide rate on college campuses is more than 80 times lower than the national average.

127

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Push thinks that courtrooms are so volatile that the benefit of allowing people to bring guns into them is outweighed by the risk. [/quote]

Wrong. Didn’t say that.

[/quote]

You quoted my post: “Exactly: the right to bear arms can be temporarily and circumstantially revoked under certain circumstances. In this case, circumstances involving lots of irresponsible people and high amounts of tension.”

You cut it off after “circumstances,” added ellipsis, and agreed. I took that to mean that you agreed with the whole thing.

128

Anyway, you and I both know that part of the reason that you think guns should be banned from court has to do with the kind of person/state of mind you find in a courtroom.

So, we have 1. Relatively safe and 2. Relatively volatile. Yes?

129

[quote]pushharder wrote:
well…you’re the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight, aren’t you?
[/quote]

Well according to the pro-gun crowd, the knife is just as effective.

130

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I see. I didn’t realize you were an expert on 330 million Americans’ routines. Many Americans don’t feel as safe as you think they are (and they’re not). Amanda Collins’ routine certainly wasn’t safe enough, was it? Or are you now going to up and suggest she probably was dressing immodestly and deserved what she got?
[/quote]

The average American citizen will be unlikely to encounter a situation that would warrant the need of a gun even once in their life, let alone multiple times. Police Officers have that potential on a daily basis. Someone’s paranoia should not be justification for them carrying a gun. In fact it should be a reason for taking it away.

131

did anyone die , other wise it is a good argument for gun control

132

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
well…you’re the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight, aren’t you?
[/quote]

Well according to the pro-gun crowd, the knife is just as effective.[/quote]

What kind of gun people are YOU talking to? They must be idiots to say that unless speaking specifically of the proximity rule and talking of holster draw times. Knives are not as effective, hence the exceedingly hackneyed and long standing saying push used.

133

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I see. I didn’t realize you were an expert on 330 million Americans’ routines. Many Americans don’t feel as safe as you think they are (and they’re not). Amanda Collins’ routine certainly wasn’t safe enough, was it? Or are you now going to up and suggest she probably was dressing immodestly and deserved what she got?
[/quote]

The average American citizen will be unlikely to encounter a situation that would warrant the need of a gun even once in their life, let alone multiple times. Police Officers have that potential on a daily basis. [/quote]

So what? Why does that matter?

[quote]

Someone’s paranoia should not be justification for them carrying a gun. In fact it should be a reason for taking it away.[/quote]

Fallacious and low brow argument to say the least in the present context of the quote. Serious question, do you know which fallacy you committed?

138

[quote]BeefEater wrote:
Someone’s paranoia should not be justification for them carrying a gun. In fact it should be a reason for taking it away.[/quote]

Someone’s lack of logic and reason is no justification for the protection of their First Amendment Rights. In fact is should be a reason for taking them away.

139

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
well…you’re the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight, aren’t you?
[/quote]

Well according to the pro-gun crowd, the knife is just as effective.[/quote]

What kind of gun people are YOU talking to? They must be idiots to say that unless speaking specifically of the proximity rule and talking of holster draw times. Knives are not as effective, hence the exceedingly hackneyed and long standing saying push used.[/quote]

It was tongue in cheek, similar to a thread entitled “Knife Control”.

140

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

So what? Why does that matter?

[/quote]

Push asked why it was ok for Police Officers to carry guns and not citizens,which is a ridiculous comparison. Police Officers also demonstrate that even trained individuals, who encounter high tension situations frequently, can and do make poor decisions with their firearms.

[quote]
Fallacious and low brow argument to say the least in the present context of the quote. Serious question, do you know which fallacy you committed?[/quote]

Push’s assertion that many(exactly how much is many I’m not sure) American’s don’t feel safe and aren’t IS paranoia.