I might buy into this in regards to private universities. Public ones, like the rape victim’s, no.[/quote]
What about public offices? Courts? Museums? Hell this guy got arrested here yesterday for just having guns in his car while parked at the Capitol (or some other DC landmark)…[/quote]
Carry should be allowed in public offices. In special cases such as courtrooms they should be checked at the door.[/quote]
What is the justification for disallowing them in court rooms.[/quote]
A different one than was used for Amanda Collins.[/quote]
Courtrooms are often full of anger and raw emotions.
There is a LONG history in this Country of shootings in courtrooms…from people just there to hear a case…to judges.
Mufasa[/quote]
Indeed, I think having people bring guns into court is a terrible idea.
I want to know why Push agrees with me.[/quote]
It’s easy. A courtroom, like a TSA airport line, can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon. Can you say that about Amanda Collins’ college campus? The sidewalk down the street from where you live? A museum? Applebees? Your office? The shoulder of I-95 where you had a flat tire?[/quote]
There are very few places on this planet that “can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon,” and a courtroom certainly isn’t one of them.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Now lets’ try this one more time, smh…explain to Amanda Collins how she needs to see it your way. Tell her how your experience on college campuses trumps hers in terms of perspective on this issue.
Out of curiosity what was stopping her from carrying mace or a stun-gun? I ask because I don’t know if there is a ban on campuses of these defense tools. If there is not then it appears unlikely that even if she would have been allowed to carry a gun, that she would have. It sounds like she is using hindsight as justification. This is possibly incorrect if she was not allowed to carry any self-defense items.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
OK, I’ll be honest. The death toll would’ve likely been higher. But that’s an individual case.
In many more other cases, in other words “across the board,” higher rates of gun ownership and carry invariably result in less crime. Significantly less. That, my friend, is indisputable.
[/quote]
I appreciate your honesty. But your second statement is just not true. If it was indisputable then we would not be having this discussion.
You tossed in the baseball bat argument not I, even when there is no comparison between deaths by baseball bats and guns, they are not even remotely close in scale.
Shows total homicides by guns outnumbers all other homicides combined, consistently. This doesn’t even take into account accidental deaths from guns.
Funny, it’s the low-lifes on campus that give me the notion I should be allowed to carry to defend myself…
[/quote]
My point as well. If there’s ANY place on earth I need to exercise my right to carry it’s in the Land of Low-lifes.[/quote]
The difference between a low-life idiot and someone who poses you danger is significant.
See my above post re: violent crime on college campuses. It is impressively low.
You know what will raise it? More guns among the immature and incompetent student body.[/quote]
In the gun carry debate that’s the same ol’ tired line that’s been used over and over and over again in speculation and refuted over and over and over again with cold hard facts, namely, we can’t allow the common man (in this case the college student) to carry, it would be too dangerous…the whackos would run wild…
It simply doesn’t happen. But the anti-gun crowd doesn’t care. In their mind their speculation always trumps the Truth.[/quote]
I bet this guy thought he was a perfectly responsible gun owner before this incident. If I recall correctly the gun either misfired or did not have a clip in it when he pointed it at the other two guys.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Now lets’ try this one more time, smh…explain to Amanda Collins how she needs to see it your way. Tell her how your experience on college campuses trumps hers in terms of perspective on this issue.
Out of curiosity what was stopping her from carrying mace or a stun-gun?..
[/quote]
Statistically not as effective. If you understood self defense, especially from a woman’s perspective, you would know this.
Let’s face it, if all anyone needed for self defense were stun guns and mace why do we see police officers all around this great land fully equipped with Sigs and Rugers and Colts and Glocks and Berettas? Why?
The bad guys that need lethal subduing via the propellant fired projectiles of the police force are the same bad guys that the common citizen encounters. The life of the common citizen is no less valuable than that of Constable Smith.
[/quote]
You still didn’t answer the question push. Regardless of their effectiveness, why (if she felt threatened) was she not carrying anything for self defense? Does it not stand to reason that even if the campus allowed her to carry a gun, that she would not have?
*Edit To answer your question about why police officers are armed. This is because they routinely are put into situations in which the use of a firearm may be warranted. Not so with the average person.
Courtrooms are often full of anger and raw emotions.
There is a LONG history in this Country of shootings in courtrooms…from people just there to hear a case…to judges.
Mufasa[/quote]
Indeed, I think having people bring guns into court is a terrible idea.
I want to know why Push agrees with me.[/quote]
It’s easy. A courtroom, like a TSA airport line, can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon. Can you say that about Amanda Collins’ college campus? The sidewalk down the street from where you live? A museum? Applebees? Your office? The shoulder of I-95 where you had a flat tire?[/quote]
There are very few places on this planet that “can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon,” and a courtroom certainly isn’t one of them.
[/quote]
I find it rather interesting that you cite an article that makes the case for more guns in more holsters on more people.
Thank you.[/quote]
Anytime. I figured you could use some help.
But in seriousness, so, what is the justification for disallowing guns in courtrooms?
It’s definitely not that a courtroom “can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon,” because that sentence isn’t true.
But in seriousness, so, what is the justification for disallowing guns in courtrooms?
It’s definitely not that a courtroom “can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon,” because that sentence isn’t true.[/quote]
I just question why the talking point…err…excuse me, “LOGIC”, that everyone is safer when err’body gotta gun breaks down when we are talking about courtrooms. Sure they can esaily be equipped to make sure nobody enters with a weapon, but why do you need to? If everyone is a big boy/girl and capable of responsible gun ownership, why does that fly out the window when they enter a courtroom?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
A courtroom, like a TSA airport line, can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon. Can you say that about Amanda Collins’ college campus? The sidewalk down the street from where you live? A museum? Applebees? Your office? The shoulder of I-95 where you had a flat tire?[/quote]
Impossible, as the liberals tell us, civilian disamarment will result in all the criminals instantly becoming law-abiding and not having weapons. There will be no guns anywhere!
Unicorns will also appear and shit Skittles for everyone.
But in seriousness, so, what is the justification for disallowing guns in courtrooms?
It’s definitely not that a courtroom “can be equipped so that NO one gets in with a weapon,” because that sentence isn’t true.[/quote]
I just question why the talking point…err…excuse me, “LOGIC”, that everyone is safer when err’body gotta gun breaks down when we are talking about courtrooms. Sure they can esaily be equipped to make sure nobody enters with a weapon, but why do you need to? If everyone is a big boy/girl and capable of responsible gun ownership, why does that fly out the window when they enter a courtroom?
[/quote]
Indeed.
What is it about a courtroom that is different from anywhere else?
People get guns into courtrooms. People kill people in courtrooms. There are bad guys in courtrooms, and we’re told time and again that instead of keeping guns out of bad guys’ hands, the real solution is to simply put them in good guys’ hands.
So, what exactly is the justification for this revocation of my Second Amendment right that Push is pushing? And in the very epicenter of legal and constitutional authority no less.
With the number of people and the number of guns in circulation, the probability of there NOT being an issue drastically outweighs the number of times there is an incident. How many millions, tens of hundreds of millions of guns are there, compared to the random incidents like Sandy Hook, Columbine, or Aurora are there ?
Courtrooms are EXTREMELY volatile places. Closed, often times cramped and confined spaces…with not only emotions running high…but people often on edge; within feet of the source of their pain and/or anger; ready to lash out at anybody and everybody.
And this is just with the LAW ABIDING portion of the people. Add to it thugs and criminals about to lose their freedoms, and everything is magnified.
Bringing in a firearm is like bringing in matches to a room with a leaking Propane Tank.
A Courtroom is simply FAR different from “other places”.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Again, I can only use my own experience.
Courtrooms are EXTREMELY volatile places. Closed, often times cramped and confined spaces…with not only emotions running high…but people often on edge; within feet of the source of their pain and/or anger; ready to lash out at anybody and everybody.
And this is just with the LAW ABIDING portion of the people. Add to it thugs and criminals about to lose their freedoms, and everything is magnified.
Bringing in a firearm is like bringing in matches to a room with a leaking Propane Tank.
A Courtroom is simply FAR different from “other places”.
Mufasa[/quote]
Exactly: the right to bear arms can be temporarily and circumstantially revoked under certain circumstances. In this case, circumstances involving lots of irresponsible people and high amounts of tension.
And particularly so, I believe, where affiliation with an institution is entirely voluntary.
Now, I don’t believe that a courtroom and a college campus are directly analogous here, for obvious reasons. But it is my honest and somewhat informed opinion that a college dorm is far more like a courtroom with regard to the characteristics in question than many people believe. If I ran a university, I simply would not trust the student body enough to allow them to keep guns in their rooms.
