Knife Control

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

I have been continually asking your opinion and you have continued to quote statutes.[/quote]

My opinion has been made very clear.

If you’re asking about nondiscrimination laws: first of all, it has literally nothing to do with this. It’s a false analogy on about a hundred different counts.

And secondly, I don’t really care. I would be just fine with discrimination against gays at universities, if only to watch with satisfaction as institutions with discriminatory admissions processes died slow deaths.[/quote]

It isn’t false in the areas I’m discussing.
[/quote]

Yes, it is. As was on display the other day, when you pounced on a simple and manifestly valid argument of mine despite the fact that you clearly do not grasp even the most basic principles of Aristotelian logic (the causal conditional, in that case), you speak with certainty before you have attained anything close to certainty.

I’m going to help us both out here and avoid a long, drawn-out discussion: logicians have a saying–all analogies limp. Figure out why on your own, because I’ve explained it more than once around here.

And as far as “remembering for next time” or whatever it was…I’m flattered that you’d see fit to commit my political beliefs to memory.[/quote]

I fully admit I failed at reading your post and responded with something stupid in that argument and justifiably got my butt kicked.

I still am just surprised by your “if you don’t like it you can leave” attitude. I can’t believe I agree with you on something.

62

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

You seeming to make the argument that the free market is thorough protection for a right in a voluntary setting.
[/quote]

By the way, no.

I’m not saying that at all.

I’m saying this: there is no right to begin with.

You don’t have a right to keep a gun in a dorm which is under the legal authority of someone who’s decided that there are no guns allowed in that dorm. Same thing with microwaves.

But yeah, I generally find nondiscrimination laws at least mostly useless. Unless, of course, you’re talking about a society as fucked up and backward as Mississippi 1950, for example.

63

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

I have been continually asking your opinion and you have continued to quote statutes.[/quote]

My opinion has been made very clear.

If you’re asking about nondiscrimination laws: first of all, it has literally nothing to do with this. It’s a false analogy on about a hundred different counts.

And secondly, I don’t really care. I would be just fine with discrimination against gays at universities, if only to watch with satisfaction as institutions with discriminatory admissions processes died slow deaths.[/quote]

It isn’t false in the areas I’m discussing.
[/quote]

Yes, it is. As was on display the other day, when you pounced on a simple and manifestly valid argument of mine despite the fact that you clearly do not grasp even the most basic principles of Aristotelian logic (the causal conditional, in that case), you speak with certainty before you have attained anything close to certainty.

I’m going to help us both out here and avoid a long, drawn-out discussion: logicians have a saying–all analogies limp. Figure out why on your own, because I’ve explained it more than once around here.

And as far as “remembering for next time” or whatever it was…I’m flattered that you’d see fit to commit my political beliefs to memory.[/quote]

I fully admit I failed at reading your post and responded with something stupid in that argument and justifiably got my butt kicked.

I still am just surprised by your “if you don’t like it you can leave” attitude. I can’t believe I agree with you on something.[/quote]

Fair enough, sorry for the prickliness.

Yes, I think that nondiscrimination is generally something for the market to take care of. There are exception for me though.

64

[quote]smh23 wrote:
But yeah, I generally find nondiscrimination laws at least mostly useless. Unless, of course, you’re talking about a society as fucked up and backward as Mississippi 1950-2012, for example.
[/quote]

Fixed that for you. The place is still backwards, just with different terms.

65

In the State of Texas to conceal carry you have to have a very extensive background check and have zero felonies. Most of these people will only bring out and use their weapon in extreme cases. To think otherwise is pretty stupid IMO.

If someone brings out a gun just because of a prank that individual would be put in jail, and loose their ability to conceal carry forever. If someone pulls out a gun because someone is shooting other people that person would be called a hero whether or not it was legal or not. If said person was put in jail for stopping a crazy idiot from killing more people I would think a jury of his peers would find him not guilty and he would be on his way.

66

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m also not certain allowing college students the right to carry around campus is the best idea. There is a ton of pranks and such that could have disastrous outcomes (this point isn’t arguing should or not, just noting it could be a net negative)
[/quote]

This is the crux of my argument.

People probably assume that I have a generally high, snobbish opinion of academe. I do not. I am pretty cynical about the whole thing, and particularly the kids who actually go to school. They are stupider and more irresponsible than most people would imagine (I certainly include myself, when I was in school). The argument from principle for gun ownership on campus is somewhat murky to me; the practical argument is not.

67

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
But yeah, I generally find nondiscrimination laws at least mostly useless. Unless, of course, you’re talking about a society as fucked up and backward as Mississippi 1950-2012, for example.
[/quote]

Fixed that for you. The place is still backwards, just with different terms.[/quote]

For the record, I like the South a lot.

Dad’s from Mississippi and then Texas. It gets a bad rap up here.

68

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
In the State of Texas to conceal carry you have to have a very extensive background check and have zero felonies. Most of these people will only bring out and use their weapon in extreme cases. To think otherwise is pretty stupid IMO.

If someone brings out a gun just because of a prank that individual would be put in jail, and loose their ability to conceal carry forever. If someone pulls out a gun because someone is shooting other people that person would be called a hero whether or not it was legal or not. If said person was put in jail for stopping a crazy idiot from killing more people I would think a jury of his peers would find him not guilty and he would be on his way.[/quote]

Like I said, I wasn’t arguing right or wrong of doing it with the prank point. I just think there is a lot of opportunity for bad situations to happen in college. I mean, just the propensity for fist fights. Even a good honest guy can lose his head when he gets punched in the mouth even when there is no serious threat to his person.

I wouldn’t say for certain that I think it would do more good than bad in that context the way I believe it does in the general population.

69

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
But yeah, I generally find nondiscrimination laws at least mostly useless. Unless, of course, you’re talking about a society as fucked up and backward as Mississippi 1950-2012, for example.
[/quote]

Fixed that for you. The place is still backwards, just with different terms.[/quote]

For the record, I like the South a lot.

Dad’s from Mississippi and then Texas. It gets a bad rap up here.[/quote]

I lived in Mississippi for about 3 years and was a property owner there for a lot longer. Most beautiful and ugliest place I’ve ever lived.

70

Bar fights, frat party fights, getting shortchanged by a drug dealer.

Not to mention the problem with the sentence, “there’s an Asian guy shooting people on the Quad,” and how badly that could turn out when the Delta Kappa brothers are packing on their way from their date-rape den to the pizzeria.

72

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
FTR I actually agree with SMH for the most part. Private universities have the right to ban guns, especially in things like dorm rooms. Hell, my university forced freshmen to buy a meal plan even. I’m also not certain allowing college students the right to carry around campus is the best idea. There is a ton of pranks and such that could have disastrous outcomes (this point isn’t arguing should or not, just noting it could be a net negative). Being a student is ultimately a voluntary position and the rules are there before you signed up, including your rape victim push.

I’m even in favor of allowing all private business to ban guns. If you own a place, you have the right to not have people carry guns in it. Regardless of questions of alcohol or self defense.
[/quote]

I might buy into this in regards to private universities. Public ones, like the rape victim’s, no.[/quote]
I kinda left those out on purpose. My ultimate stance would be that those shouldnâ??t exist.

Basically, colleges need a large amount of regulatory authority beyond a regular business. They need to be able to regulate students. As such, it is necessary that a college push a specific brand of morals. Because they must pick and push specific morality beyond legal authority, public funds shouldn’t be used. That goes for a lot of issues besides just guns.

73

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I might buy into this in regards to private universities. Public ones, like the rape victim’s, no.[/quote]

What about public offices? Courts? Museums? Hell this guy got arrested here yesterday for just having guns in his car while parked at the Capitol (or some other DC landmark)…

74

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I might buy into this in regards to private universities. Public ones, like the rape victim’s, no.[/quote]

What about public offices? Courts? Museums? Hell this guy got arrested here yesterday for just having guns in his car while parked at the Capitol (or some other DC landmark)…[/quote]

Every single institution that receives a dime of federal money.

76

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I might buy into this in regards to private universities. Public ones, like the rape victim’s, no.[/quote]

What about public offices? Courts? Museums? Hell this guy got arrested here yesterday for just having guns in his car while parked at the Capitol (or some other DC landmark)…[/quote]

Carry should be allowed in public offices. In special cases such as courtrooms they should be checked at the door.[/quote]

What is the justification for disallowing them in court rooms.

77

smh:

Courtrooms are often full of anger and raw emotions.

There is a LONG history in this Country of shootings in courtrooms…from people just there to hear a case…to judges.

Mufasa

79

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I might buy into this in regards to private universities. Public ones, like the rape victim’s, no.[/quote]

What about public offices? Courts? Museums? Hell this guy got arrested here yesterday for just having guns in his car while parked at the Capitol (or some other DC landmark)…[/quote]

Carry should be allowed in public offices. In special cases such as courtrooms they should be checked at the door.[/quote]

What is the justification for disallowing them in court rooms.[/quote]

You can’t really be against any establishment that checks for guns at the door but okay with courts doing it. As long as there is tight control of no weapons allowed in some enclosed area your argument for needing a gun for protection is out the door too.

80

I’m missing something in the argument here. (That won’t be the first, or last, time!)

Mufasa