Well looks like you have beaten the butt wink, so that’s a bonus!
Dunno about that little shuffle out from the rack though. One step back, other step back. Settle. Squat.
You are heading in the right direction, just keep form in mind and you should keep improving.
Better with two issues.
Before you descend givethe bar a chance to settle.
You’re pushing forward on the way up. You need to push the knees to the rear while pressing against the bar to engage the glutes.
BTW just in response. Out of a total of over fifty meets I got two red lights in a squat. It was either an outright miss or three whites.
Different feds, different standards. A lot of Louie’s guys compete in SPF where depth isn’t really an issue. Another thing is that people have varying levels of flexibility, which combined with varying limb/torso proportions make certain styles of squatting more suitable to others. But Louie actually did say in a video that squatting below parallel is bad for your hips and so on, don’t do it. I would argue that squatting with an extremely wide stance (like they do for box squats most of the time) is bad for your hips as well, but that’s why they often wear briefs of a suit with the straps down for that. Squatting max weights isn’t exactly a health-conscious activity in any case, and squatting below parallel hasn’t caused me any problems.
And speaking of squat technique
Are you saying that he should try to extend the knees as soon as possible and finish the lift with hip extension? While that does work for some people, I don’t really see anything wrong with the way he’s squatting at this point (aside from the setup). There are a couple of JTS videos on youtube talking about this, Chad and Max got Marisa Inda to keep her knees forward longer, allowing her to use more quads. The end result was that she squatted more, I think she won gold at IPF worlds and maybe set a record too, I don’t really follow women’s PL. Anyway, the point is that optimal technique won’t be the same for everyone. There are guys with big squats who compete under strict judging (IPF) that use the sort of technique you are describing, such as Mark Robb and Mike Tuchscherer (pre-back/hip injury). Or look at Steve Goggins, who was basically doing a good morning with over 1000lbs.
I see that you have mentioned knees going forward being the cause of injuries (Ed Coan, etc.). Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears to me that the problem was that the knee moved forward during the ascent.
Almost all my previous meets were ADFPA. Only one meet, my latest, was USPA. I think after all this time i have at least a clue what parallel is, thank you.
The knees moving back, the upper back pushing into the bar and the hips moving forward all happen at the SAME TIME, when done correctly. It shouldn’t look like a seesaw.
OBVIOUSLY different strokes for different folks, but even among those whose knees need to be forward at the bottom, they should NOT move to a more forward position on the way up, which is what he’s doing. All joints involved should flex and extend in one continuous motion, like a hinge (not open and close alternatively). Can’t explain it better than that.
Honestly, I’m a bit lost on both of you guys here… However looking over this video and coaching videos online I think I break at the hips early (when my knees are extended), and this is probably jacking something up along the way
The only reason I’m talking about squat depth is because you responded to a post that was part of an old conversation where I first mentioned Louie saying not to squat below parallel.
I just watched the video again, I see that on the last rep. He also starts to lean forward a bit more, likely shifting the weight towards his toes. I didn’t see that at first, the knee movement is very minor.
In the last clip you looked ok on the way down. What I saw was on the way up you shifted forward onto the front of your foot. What is happening is that your quads are stronger than your posterior chain (Erectors, Glutes, Hams, Adductors, and Calves) and on the way up your posterior chain is not strong enough and your body is going on autopilot and is using the strongest muscle available at the particular leverage point (in your case, the quads) to complete the lift.
In the squat there are three main fulcrum points or hinge points in laymans terms. They are the hips, knees and ankles. On the way down these hinges close (flex), forming acute angles. On the way up these hinges open (extend) due tot he forces of the muscles acting upon them. All three of these points must be coordinated per each individuals structure in order for the squatting motion to apppear fluid. Importantly once they begin to extend on the way up, they should not go back into flexion.
At the top, before the descent you don’t stick your ass out. You open the hips at the same time the hips and knees bend almost simultaneously. The sequence and position will depend on your anthropometry, but the general principle I described above applies to all. Go review clips of top lifters.
Stop trying to create arguments already.
I’m not trying to argue at all, you’re actually right about the forward knee travel. I didn’t get what you were saying about that old post, but whatever, lets move on.
The knee motion is minor, but watch knee injury videos(Coan, Mark Bell, Paul Jordan, and others) very carefully and you’ll see the knee shift forward just before collapse. At his weights he can get away with it but with major weight, the knees are not made to handle that type of abrupt loading. It gets worse with gear when they max out to the rear and try to go deeper, there’s no place to go but forward.
Like I said, you’re right. It’s so minor that I didn’t see it at first. If that’s how his squat looks when technique starts to break down then it’s definitely a cause for concern. What would you recommend to fix this? I would think submaximal work, staying away from technical failure. Plus posterior chain work like good mornings, rdls, sldls, back extensions, etc.
This sounds nutty to all the OL worshippers, but de-emphasize the quads. Don’t ignore them, just don’t focus on them.
I have found the following exercises to help me:
Arched back good mornings - I don’t focus on them much now because I can good morning
more than I can squat.
HEAVY low block pulls for Max Effort with vertical shins pulling stiff legged. I use a progression of Crossfit plates - 55’s, then 45’s, then 35’s, then back to 55’s and repeat.
Heavy stiff legs off the floor (Ed Coan style over the toes)
Manta ray squat to a high box with forward lean - mimics the deadlift
Hi bar squat to a below parallel box again with forward lean.
Obviously all the standard Hamstring work, back raises and calf work
If I make the same type of progress on this cycle as the last one, I’ll post up my entire conjugate plan. I don’t want to post anything if it turns out to be a fluke.
Right now training is 5s PRO 351, 5x5 FSL and lower-body assistance is limited to barbell rows (for DL) and Good Mornings (for squats), plus ab work.
This should be enough Posterior Chain and Submaximal work, right?
More than enough. Make sure you take a deload at least every 7th week. If you’re working hard that’s a good amount of volume.
j4gga2
October 2 |
Right now training is 5s PRO 351, 5x5 FSL and lower-body assistance is limited to barbell rows (for DL) and Good Mornings (for squats), plus ab work.
This should be enough Posterior Chain and Submaximal work, right?
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In Reply To
jbackos
October 2 |
If I make the same type of progress on this cycle as the last one, I’ll post up my entire conjugate plan. I don’t want to post anything if it turns out to be a fluke.
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