What I mean is that they don’t make you squat nearly as deep as the OP does in the video. They are as extreme as it gets in PL when it comes to depth, but nobody said you had to squat ATG for your lift to pass. There have certainly been bad calls, which is why they should record from the side and have a competent jury (like in this year’s IPF worlds) to keep the judges from making bullshit calls. I’m not a huge fan of the IPF, I just happen to compete in an IPF affiliated fed because options are limited. Squat depth is the least of their problems.
To me it seems more like pause squats get you used to the feeling of being in the bottom position so that you don’t really have to think about it. I don’t really see an issue with them as long as you don’t make them your main squat variation. If anything, I’m feeling for the hole so that I hit depth.
You want to get used to the feeling of being in the bottom position? Really? I thought the point was to get the fuck out of the bottom position ASAP.
This is where I just learned that you have never truly maxed out. If you take a LIMIT weight and try to think while you’re in the bottom you WILL get stapled to the floor.
But by encouraging depth with crappy judging, people try to squat deeper and deeper to “please” the judges.
I never said anything about thinking while at the bottom of a squat
You can build your squat without using pause squats, but they are a useful variation. The idea is that you get that feeling of hitting depth and automatically come up full force, unless of course you intend to pause. They also teach you to increase force production in the bottom, you lose most of the stretch reflex and there is no bounce out of the hole.
If pause squats don’t work for you then that’s one thing, but completely dismissing them is pretty stupid. You keep mentioning Ed Coan, they were one of his main squat assistance lifts.
Coan did High Bar pauses off season. Different purpose. Pausing the high bar is to avoid bouncing off the calves which can stress the knee ligaments by prying the knee apart. Coan’s the one who spoke about being in a bottom position where you could go no deeper if you tried. You thought I made that up?
Maybe I heard wrong, but I heard he also used paused low bar squats. In some interviews and videos (I have seen and read many with Ed Coan) he said he also used high bar and close stance high bar squats without a pause, in his book he talks about doing single-leg leg press. Bouncing of the calves may be one issue, but another reason for doing paused low bar squats is that it forces you to drive with your quads. I have started using them again since last week. Low bar paused squats don’t really stress the quads so much, so if quads are your weakness (as Ed Coan said his was) then they aren’t always the best choice. In my case, I did a lot of dead squats in the last while and now it feels like most of the drive out of the hole is coming from my glutes, if I can get my quads working harder as well then it sounds like my squat will keep moving up.
Anyway, many of the top coaches such as Boris Sheiko, Mike Tuchscherer, and Josh Bryant use pause squats so unless you have coached several world record holders, your opinion holds little weight. They might not be appropriate for everyone all the time, but they certainly have their place.
Dont mean to keep bugging you guys for form checks, but here are two angles of my LB squat (40kg) from this morning. Personally, they felt great and I think all they require is better head positioning and stronger bracing.
You fixed your butt wink issue, you are still well below parallel so you could consider moving your stance out wider if it feels stronger but if not then don’t worry, some people need to squat deeper to catch the stretch reflex. But the problem now is your head position, I can’t see a good reason to look down (likely to cause upper back rounding when the weights get heavy, plus turn it into a good morning) and throwing your head back when you are halfway up can’t be good either. Just look straight ahead, maybe slightly up or down, and maintain that position throughout the lift. Neck movement should be minimal at most.
The looking down is something I’ve always done in low bar, and that was reinforced by guys like Rip and Coan. Throwing my head back was a new thing caused by me following a Coan cue poorly. In the How to Skwaat vid he talks about pushing your back against the bar. I tried that cue and ended up throwing my head up instead of pressing my shoulders into the bar, which is what you saw there. I just have to practice keeping my eyes at a fixed point now
This thread still going lol. Whatever head position you choose make sure it’s not changing during the lift. Some go neutral and some a little extended or flexed. Probably at the extremes of neck position you are getting pre stretching or lengthening of muscles that attach on the skull and neck.
What I do these days is look at nothing. The whole squat from setup to finish (track I look for the catches) I have my eyes open but I don’t really look at anything. I’ve been asked about that cardio bunny who went past during the set but truthfully didn’t see shit. My attention is on my own body’s position in space, the feel of my feet planted/screwed to the ground, maintaining tightness, technique and moving aggressively. It’s all looking inward if that makes sense.
When I started I was always looking in mirrors and shit and tbh I’m not sure when I actually made the transition.
Worth a try if you’re head positioning, movement or where you are looking is an issue.
Really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AtnWZykK94
I know Rippetoe wants people to squat with their head down, but I have no idea why and I’m not aware of any impressive lifter doing so.
Must be my magnetic personality
insert weak marijuana joke
Thanks for the advice. I’ve found even though my heads points towards the floor in the hole, I’m not actually focusing on the floor, sort of similar to you. That’s why I didn’t notice my head shooting up, coz I wasn’t looking, really
Hmm okay, in the How to video his head’s down. He did mention how he doesn’t really look at any particular place in competition though. I’ll try messing with head position
Wasn’t isn’t good enough mane. Don’t look on purpose. Your attention should be elsewhere.
BTW, how many world record holders have YOU coached ? Stop with the personal insults and stick to the argument at hand.
BTW, Coan has done the best he can with his limitations (quads as he has stated). Though the GOAT, his squat form is based on having the back strength of a superheavy. Coan always said that he found what works for him and that form is individual.
As for Boris Sheiko, he gets props but don’t forget that he works in a system that hand picks lifters from a young age and by the time Boris gets a hold of them they are already world class. Try to follow his program without state supported, drugs, chiros, PT’s, massage therapists, dieticians, etc.
As for Mike, unless you have been around a loooong time RPE is difficult to asses on a daily basis especially for beginners.
Stop looking at the floor, You can get away with it with 135 but not on the platform.
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Coan NEVER said to look down in the squat.
What he means with the head coming up is that since the upper back is the last part to come down, to reverse it you need to push with the entire back as a unit with the glutes pushing forward.
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Just to clarify, Rip’s specialty is training rank beginners and grandmas. He even says he DOES NOT teach the powerlifting squat.
While @chris_ottawa is away I thought I’d play devil’s advocate (so don’t bite my head off)
Does Louie not also hand pick his lifters. Aren’t lifters that are invited pro or close to pro level, impressive numbers on the platform, mental fortitude and the drive to be the best? Kinda picking lifter’s who are half way there. Is this not advantageous to picking lifters from a young age on potential who may or may not fulfill it. There’s no system but the lifter’s individual circumstances serve the same purpose: Only the best make it to Westside Barbell.
As for the pause squat I think of it like overloading the weak point of the raw squat. Like westside has its box squats below parallel for weakness out of the hole so too do pause squat serve a similar function.
With the pause, which should be an active one where tension remains on the muscle as opposed to plopping down and relaxing onto the calves which sounds great for making your knees explode, stretch reflex is reduced. Essentially your muscles have to exert more torque to finish a pause squat than a regular squat.
Raw lifters rarely miss squats near lockout and if they do its from loss of balance or speed being sapped through the weak point just out of the hole. This is objectively the least advantageous position biomechanically for the raw squat (interesting read: google Greg Nuckols Squat Sticking Point). This is due to length tension relationship and knee extension demands in the raw squat.
Length Tension Relationship is about muscles producing peak force through midrange/resting range and less towards end of range.
The glutes and other muscles of the hip are able to deal with the hip extension demands throughtout range. Knee extension demands at the sticking point are high and coupled with the decrease in total tension (active tension as determined by length tension relationship and passive tension/stretch) leads to the common sticking point.
(See Greg Nuckols stuff for a not shit explanation)
Pause Squats target work that overloads the weak point of the Raw Squat which seems rather Westside-esque IMO.