[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
We NEVER hit our son. He’s never been a problem at school or anywhere. My wife and I were VERY consistent and on the same page as far as discipline at home goes. Also, I never rough-housed with my son when he was young.
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ID, why didn’t you rough house with your son? I’ve got a 7 month old daughter who I already rough house with. I see rough housing as a good thing.
People, This child is 5 years old. Children develop in different areas at different times. It’s WAY too early to seek professional help, have him tested for ADHD, put him on meds and possibly even spank him over this behavior. Boatguy should be patient and maybe consider taking him out of kindergarten like the first responder said (I think the first responder had the best advise).
[quote]MarvelGirl wrote:
I couldn’t compete with that. It didn’t matter what I did to discipline him because the school was rewarding him for bad behavior. I was in that office twice a week for the past four years, begging them to just CALL ME when something happened. I live three minutes away from the school, and I would come get him and discipline him but they refuse to call me.
[/quote]
I am infuriated for you. I’m sure you were/are too but my goodness I would make those teachers/counselors/principals lives a waking nightmare if they did that, as every good parent should.
Speaking as a current student teacher raised by teachers going back generations.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I got beaten relentlessly since birth and it did nothing but show me how to be brutal.
I also learned to be sneaky, manipulative, and that consequences only occur after you get what you want, thus rendering them useless.
So, be careful with those beatings. When I finally gave one back to the old man it was ugly.
[/quote]
Same with me.
Beatings only taught me to be more sneaky and a better liar.
Funny thing is, he already learned to be sneaky, manipulative and lie, at least at home. He has been spanked for certain offenses, but I wouldn’t categorize it as ‘relentlessly’. As has been posted several times, different things work for different kids. I was spanked as a child, as was my wife. It was a solid deterrent for me, as for her. Maybe it doesn’t work for him, but we’re still working on figuring that out.
He is not an only child, he has an older sister who has never given us any problems and loves school. Again, that may just be the difference between boys and girls. We have joked before that if he had come first, he WOULD be an only child.
We have been trying to handle this, and we are not bashing the teacher(in front of him). He has already lost several privileges, and is close to losing more. Like MG wrote, the school barely notifies us until it’s been almost a week. He will go most of a week without a bad note, and then get one covering several days worth of behavior where he has misbehaved almost constantly. And as far as them blowing his offenses out of proportion: they have a morning meeting every day with everyone in the school. He was sitting next to a girl, and leaned over until his head was touching hers, then pushed against her(this is exactly how the teacher described it). The note that was sent home said he was head butting people. I’m sorry, but apparently my definition of head butting and yours are totally different.
Yes, again, I understand that all of this is unacceptable behavior, and we are trying to correct it. That is the only reason I posted this, to get more options/advice from people on here, not just to bash the teacher/school. We are definitely not “NMFK” parents. We know he misbehaves, he’s not exactly an angel at home either. But at home, we can deal with it immediately, instead of trying to decipher what he did from someone else’s description of it and then deal with it after the fact. Someone likened raising children to training a dog. One of the tenets of training dogs is to correct bad behavior immediately, not wait four hours and then try to fix it. I know he is not a dog, but some of the psychology still holds true. I still have to agree with what TShaw wrote, about children that age living completely in the now. Case in point, if he asks when we are going to do something, and you tell him “I will tell you when it is time to go”, he comes back in less than five minutes to ask again.
Have you tried telling your son thst if he does not behave himself, Chuck Norris will come and get him? Have you tried contacting Chuck Norris? Is there a reason Chuck Norris does not want to talk to you? I do not blame him. If I was Chuck Norris, I would not want to talk to you either. Hell, it even pains me to write this.
[quote]boatguy wrote:
Funny thing is, he already learned to be sneaky, manipulative and lie, at least at home. He has been spanked for certain offenses, but I wouldn’t categorize it as ‘relentlessly’.[/quote]
I meant that more towards the pro beatings crowd.
By relentlessly I mean for no reason, with belts (buckle side), full body (face, head, torso, legs) and often.
Had a feeling that is what you meant. I believe in physical punishment, if it fits the severity of the offense. But I also believe it can get out of hand if the parent is not careful.
We are looking into having him evaluated by a child psychologist. This has been going on for a while, and nothing seems to be working. He started gymnastics last night, and we were able to watch him from across the gym while he was in class. The class was just him and three other boys about his age (all beginners) with one male coach. When he was actively doing something (trying a new skill, warming up, etc) then he was fine. As soon as he had to wait his turn (the coach was helping them try out new skills, so obviously that is a one at a time deal), he was bouncing on a nearby trampoline, or doing the rodeo. I don’t know what else to call it, he will get on all furs, and spin around like a rodeo bull when he gets wound up and bored. I am sitting there watching three boys sitting or standing quietly, waiting their turn, and there’s my boy, bouncing off the walls.
Like I said, while I do think some of the stuff has been blown out of proportion, I also know my son is no angel and can be a troublemaker. Watching him last night really sent it home for me. If the other boys had been acting similarly, then I could just write it off as ‘normal’. But that was obviously not the case.
So like I said, we are going to have him evaluated, to see if he has ADD/ADHD, or if maybe he just doesn’t have the maturity to deal with school yet (and also to see if the psychologist can give us some ideas we haven’t come up with yet). His birthday is in late July, so he turned 5 a few weeks before school started. Every child is different, so maybe he is just a late bloomer, so to speak.
[quote]boatguy wrote:
We are looking into having him evaluated by a child psychologist… I am sitting there watching three boys sitting or standing quietly, waiting their turn, and there’s my boy, bouncing off the walls.
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This sounds exactly like how my 9 year old boy was. While you take your son to the shrink your son will be growing out of it naturally and the shrink will get the credit and the money. Or, the shrink will needlessly drug your boy.
When my 9 year old was five, he was bouncing off the walls in gymnastics (just like your son) and he was spinning circles and flying like a plane during Tee-ball. He’s now a model 9 year old. I really think you need to be patient and accept that this is where your son is at in his development. It’s a headache but it’s no big deal.
Your boy is the epitome of what a boy should be: energetic, status driven, pushing boundaries, results oriented, smart and sassy.
Be GRATEFUL that he is not one of the “good little boys”. Both of my kids are like your kid. My oldest is 13 and my youngest is three. The oldest got beaten on THREE occasions early on, but they were warranted. The rest was time outs. My opinion on beating is don’t half ass it. I remember when my mom used to hit me and I got cocky and told her that, “I’m a big boy now and you can’t hurt me”. LOL She then proceeded to break a broomstick over my back. Extreme? Yes. Effective? DEFINITELY (for a while at least).
Don’t take your kid to a shrink. There is nothing wrong with him. He needs more structure and discipline and an activity that “tires him out”. It’s just ENERGY. It has to go somewhere… With him being five, he may have trouble containing it and channeling it appropriately. He’ll grow out of it, but make sure he gets consistent discipline so he LEARNS what is appropriate and what is not. That’s the problem with today’s society, everyone thinks a shrink can solve the problem with a theory that’s twenty years old and is driven by a culture that is more worried about being politically correct and avoiding lawsuits than making responsible young men and women. Don’t fall for it.
My youngest son is in preschool right now and he has hit other students on three occasions… I dealt with it by talking to him and time outs. It doesn’t work to beat them after the fact - it has to be right then when it happens.
Good luck! Hang in there!
I don’t get this thing about encouraging boys to act up or thinking that it’s normal. In a five-year-old boy, it shows up as poking, teasing, and not sitting still in class. The same thing in a teenager means getting in fights and cutting class. If he can’t figure out how to sit still, listen to the teacher, and be respectful, he stands a good chance of getting bad grades later on, and not having the brightest future. This is a world that rewards people who have verbal skills and can navigate academic/office settings successfully; men who get into trouble by being antagonistic get left behind. (There’s a reason why women are outnumbering men in college and graduate degrees, and why men are laid off more in this recession – the economy is shifting toward jobs that involve sitting down, writing articulately, and not getting in trouble. See Richard Whitmire on this thesis: Why Boys Fail It’s a VERY illuminating blog.)
Spanking or not spanking is up to you (I was spanked sometimes) but there has to be a concept of “getting in trouble” in your house, and your kid should be scared of getting in trouble. It can just be as simple as a parent yelling at him for hours and making him feel shame.
I would hold off on medication or shrinks until you try changing his behavior by parenting. I had some behavioral problems when I was little; I didn’t listen to the teacher, I was usually off in my own world reading or something, and I didn’t play with the other children. If I had been born ten years later they would have called it autism and put me in special ed. My mother was adamant that I was fine, she just had to drill into me how to behave. My life is going pretty well at the moment and I think it’s clear by now she made the right decision.
I didn’t say we were going straight to drugging him. We have been trying to correct this for a while, and nothing seems to be working. As far as the ‘fear’ of getting into trouble (which was real for me as a child and was a deterrent), he just doesn’t seem to care. He doesn’t like getting in trouble, but it seems as if he thinks he will get away with it every single time. He has been losing privileges like crazy, to the point that there isn’t much else we can take away from him. He was suspended from the bus for this entire week, because he STILL won’t listen to the driver and sit down and leave other kids alone. We did find a solution for that, he will be riding the ‘special needs’ bus starting on Monday. This is the only bus in the parish apparently which has an aide ride the bus, instead of just the driver. When we were in VA every school bus had two adults on it. So at least that part is taken care of, so we can concentrate on the rest.
Funny side note, dinner is usually a fight, since he rarely wants to eat what is given to him. He doesn’t snack during the day, so it’s not like he is full. He just decides he doesn’t want to eat, and doesn’t. Since he has been getting into trouble at school, dinner has been very smooth. Just thought that was odd.
I can empathize with you boatguy, my son is totally unpunishable. He will punish himself just to spite us and show us that we can’t hurt him. It’s difficult but at the same time, I can’t help but respect the kid. He knows what he wants and he will do whatever it takes to get it. The school wanted us to drug the shit out of him but his doctor said that was bullshit. My refusal to doctor shop until I found one who would drug him got us labeled as “uncooperative parents”.
It sounds like you’re in for some heartache and I feel for you on that one. Some kids are incredibly difficult to raise.
Hang in there. My husband and I are convinced that the traits that make my son a nightmare to raise will make him an incredible man. I know that sometimes it’s hard to think that far ahead but my boy is 9 now and he impresses me more and more each day. Sometimes I wish my kid fit in with his peers but then I see them eating paste and cussing at each other and I’m glad he’s his own person.
I apologize if that doesn’t make any sense. My local fresh and easy is going out of business and all the wine was 50% off. I haven’t had a drink in about 6 months so I’m kind of drunk right now. Good luck to you and your wife and HANG IN THERE. The most difficult children can become the most amazing adults if their parents manage to channel that energy.
[quote]Eli B wrote:
I am infuriated for you. I’m sure you were/are too but my goodness I would make those teachers/counselors/principals lives a waking nightmare if they did that, as every good parent should.
Speaking as a current student teacher raised by teachers going back generations.[/quote]
I love you for saying this. Seriously, you are a peach and we need more teachers like you.
I tried so hard to work with the school and I really regret it now because it seems like the principal/counselors/school district just don’t care. I live in Las Vegas and we have the highest dropout rate in the country and it’s no wonder why once you’ve dealt with the schools here. They do not give a shit.
That being said, my son had the most wonderful teacher last year. I met with her every single day after school to go over the day and what issues my son had. This allowed me to work with him on his problem areas and try to improve. She was absolutely amazing but her hands were tied by the district. The limits we’ve put on teachers in this country is asinine. They’re instructed to teach the students to pass a test and that’s it. She was disgusted with it and let me know exactly how she felt about the school district.
Right now I’m hurt because I showed up at that school every single day last year to talk to his teacher for 5 to 15 minutes and the goddamn vice principal labels me as an uninvolved and uncooperative parent. His current teacher told me this and it really hurt.
Thank you for being a teacher who cares. I mean that and I might sound sappy or silly, but I feel like it’s important to say it. We need more of you and you are appreciated.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Your boy is the epitome of what a boy should be: energetic, status driven, pushing boundaries, results oriented, smart and sassy.
Be GRATEFUL that he is not one of the “good little boys”. Both of my kids are like your kid. My oldest is 13 and my youngest is three. The oldest got beaten on THREE occasions early on, but they were warranted. The rest was time outs. My opinion on beating is don’t half ass it. I remember when my mom used to hit me and I got cocky and told her that, “I’m a big boy now and you can’t hurt me”. LOL She then proceeded to break a broomstick over my back. Extreme? Yes. Effective? DEFINITELY (for a while at least).
Don’t take your kid to a shrink. There is nothing wrong with him. He needs more structure and discipline and an activity that “tires him out”. It’s just ENERGY. It has to go somewhere… With him being five, he may have trouble containing it and channeling it appropriately. He’ll grow out of it, but make sure he gets consistent discipline so he LEARNS what is appropriate and what is not. That’s the problem with today’s society, everyone thinks a shrink can solve the problem with a theory that’s twenty years old and is driven by a culture that is more worried about being politically correct and avoiding lawsuits than making responsible young men and women. Don’t fall for it.
My youngest son is in preschool right now and he has hit other students on three occasions… I dealt with it by talking to him and time outs. It doesn’t work to beat them after the fact - it has to be right then when it happens.
Good luck! Hang in there![/quote]
X2
There’s nothing wrong with your kid. Little boys are not MEANT to sit still and be quiet. They are active. The problem is, the masculinity is beaten out of boys at such a young age and we get these BS theories from emasculated men and women who think they have better ideas of how men should act that the average person has no clue on how boys act. That isn’t to say that some boys are trouble and have serious issues, bu from having worked with and dealt with kids on a regular basis from birth on up to 1st grade I don’t see anything wrong with your boy. Your son is like mine. He has no OFF switch, so you need to channel his energy and figure out what gets him focused.
Stop buying into the politically correct BS a lt of the people in this thread have spouted. You need to put more trust in your wife. She sounds like she is the only one thinking clearly in this situation.
I’m gonna say it one more time- boxing would fix this.
lew- Without being blind to the fact that my boy is causing a problem(and neither is she), I agree with my wife. As I have written before, the teacher has described some of the ‘violent’ things he has allegedly done(sorry, always wanted a reason to use that one, thanks son!), and they are nothing resembling what she has labeled them–take for instance the headbutting thing from above.
MarvelGirl- Your responses are the exact reason I posted this, to find other parents or professionals who had been through the same thing. Thank you so much for your help. I don’t want to drug my child, I just want him evaluated by a child psychologist who can hopefully give us some insight into what is going on and possibly some strategies on how to handle it, up to and including meds if necessary. If it comes to meds, I don’t want to turn him into another mindless drone. I like that he is a little goofy, and is his own person. I want him to keep that strong will, and learn how to channel it more positively. We just want to bring him down a notch or two, to a more manageable level. We put him into gymnastics to try and burn some energy(even though it is only once a week), and I felt bad watching the coach trying to keep him in line. I know we are paying him to do that, but still. Part of me doesn’t get it, cause the coach is Belarussian, and looks like your typical Eastern European bad guy. He would have scared the crap out of me as a kid!
irish- I would love to get him into something more structured like martial arts or maybe even boxing, but he is still so erratic with his behavior it makes me nervous. Right now he is just bugging the other kids, I don’t want to give him the tools to actually hurt other kids right now. Once we get him under control, I plan to get him into boxing, wrestling, and eventually football.
[quote]boatguy wrote:
irish- I would love to get him into something more structured like martial arts or maybe even boxing, but he is still so erratic with his behavior it makes me nervous. Right now he is just bugging the other kids, I don’t want to give him the tools to actually hurt other kids right now. Once we get him under control, I plan to get him into boxing, wrestling, and eventually football.[/quote]
As long as he’s got two fists he’s got the tools to hurt kids. But giving him something structured could make that manageable. There’s a reason that they get these little hood rats and get’em in boxing gyms- keeps them out of trouble and provides structure and a source of confidence, which leads to being calm.
I’m tellin you.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]boatguy wrote:
irish- I would love to get him into something more structured like martial arts or maybe even boxing, but he is still so erratic with his behavior it makes me nervous. Right now he is just bugging the other kids, I don’t want to give him the tools to actually hurt other kids right now. Once we get him under control, I plan to get him into boxing, wrestling, and eventually football.[/quote]
As long as he’s got two fists he’s got the tools to hurt kids. But giving him something structured could make that manageable. There’s a reason that they get these little hood rats and get’em in boxing gyms- keeps them out of trouble and provides structure and a source of confidence, which leads to being calm.
I’m tellin you.[/quote]
I agree. I train at a Thai Boxing gym that also serves as a little community center. The dude that runs it lets me train there for free in exchange for volunteering some with the kids. This place is pretty much in the hood and some of the kids are pretty fucking bad… but they learn. I don’t think that a lot of these kids would do well in a “McDojo”-type setting though; the head trainer at our gym is a fairly easy going guy, but it’s well-understand that he doesn’t take shit from anybody.
If your kid is used to being a bit of a bully, it can be a good experience for him as he will learn that there is always somebody who hits harder than you. He will also come to see that the “biggest and baddest” dudes in the gym are often the nicest to the smallest and weakest.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]boatguy wrote:
irish- I would love to get him into something more structured like martial arts or maybe even boxing, but he is still so erratic with his behavior it makes me nervous. Right now he is just bugging the other kids, I don’t want to give him the tools to actually hurt other kids right now. Once we get him under control, I plan to get him into boxing, wrestling, and eventually football.[/quote]
As long as he’s got two fists he’s got the tools to hurt kids. But giving him something structured could make that manageable. There’s a reason that they get these little hood rats and get’em in boxing gyms- keeps them out of trouble and provides structure and a source of confidence, which leads to being calm.
I’m tellin you.[/quote]
Get him into some type of contact sport now, and not a once a week thing. This kid needs an outlet, and there is no way he can save all that energy for once a week of gymnastics. I assume you lift more than once a week and that most people who participate in sports would not really enjoy it much or get benefit from that sport doing it once a week for an hour or so. It really sounds like your little guy needs at least an hour a day to wear him out some. If you are on base and it’s difficult to find or get to these types of activities, buy a jump rope and a stop watch, teach him to do push-ups and count them off, take him to the park everyday and fuck around doing a playground workout.
I think boxing would be great really. See how much he wants to get on the floor and chase his tail after several 2 minutes round of jump rope. And Irish is right, once he learns someone can hit (or jump rope longer, or punch the bag longer etc)harder than him, it’ll knock him down a notch for sure.
As for ADHD drugs and all that crap, I heard a kid on ritalin say once that the drug was great for his focus and concentration, it made him be able to focus more on drawing and staring out the window, in other words, things he already liked to do.