Kick 'em While They're Down

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]miniross wrote:
stellar_horizon wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
I’m gonna start a sun-worshipping cult.

You’re thousands of years late in your proposition. The Egyptians worshipped the sun god Rah while the ancient Greeks worshipped the sun god Apollo.

And before that, christians in ethiopia also had it tied into their celebrations aslo, such is the power of these faiths. Most christian celebrations are still tied to these pagan ideas, dont you think (christmas, easter, harvest (in the uk at least)) the whole “REBORN” thing ties in nicely with spring, a time of renewal.[/quote]

Pagan symbols of spring include the egg and the bunnyrabbit. They also worship trees around wintertime. Coincidence? :slight_smile:

So is anybody gonna join my new sun cult? I hate to drink all this beer by myself, but if I have to… well… I guess I’ll just go get more tan all by myself!

182

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
I’m gonna start a sun-worshipping cult.

You’re thousands of years late in your proposition. The Egyptians worshipped the sun god Rah while the ancient Greeks worshipped the sun god Apollo.
[/quote]

BTW: It’s never too late to come back to the one true God, stellar. Look at your username, fer cryin’ out loud! stellar horizon… the sun is a star just like a bunch of other Gods which shine in the distant night sky while my God tends to his other children across our earth.

There’s still time to accept the truth, pal. Get your suntan lotion… Beer’s in the cooler… I’ll see you at the pool around 10:30. :slight_smile:

183

Great lead-in to the post I promised.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
The sun doesn’t care if you are dumb, ugly, a jerk, or anything at all. It accepts us as we are, and doesn’t ask for anything in return. It will shine on us all equally, regardless of our race, gender, lifestyle, or sexual preference.[/quote]

I’ve got news for you - so does God!

As stated in my previous post, God does NOT have human emotion. We say He “cares” because we lack the potential to understand Him and our created language can’t possibly explain the qualities of that which is Uncreated. We say He “cares” because we want to emphasize that He wills the best for us. In the same way, the Christian Faith teaches that God “loves” us ALL in an equal degree; whether saint or sinner, Christian or devil-worshipper, heterosexual or homosexual.
This is what’s referred to as God’s infinite love for man. His love for us will NEVER disintegrate or dissolve. In the analogy I provide below, this same love may prove blissful for some or tormentful for others, depending on the individual’s spiritual health.

God is alcohol. My soul is my hand. Sins happen to be any wounds/cuts/scratches.

If my hand is free of nicks/cuts and I apply alcohol to it, the sensation will be tingly & refreshing. So too is the experience, for lack of a better expression, “blissful” when God’s energies come into union with my soul if I be free of sin.
Now, if my hand be full of scratches and abrasions, when alcohol is applied to it the sensation will be painful and “tormenting”. Similarly, when God’s energies unite with my soul and I be full of sin, my experience will be agonizing.
The only way to overcome the potential outcome of torment is to be healed of sin - that is what Christians refer to as repentance. Only then can the scratches be healed and the wounds sealed so as not to feel pain but bliss instead when God’s energies fuse with our souls in the Day of Judgment.
You see, God’s love never changes. His love remains constant for every one of us. It is us who must change before we come into union with Him. This is what heaven and hell are - the final disposition of God’s uncreated energies fusing together with our souls. This is the reason we need repentance and a proper understanding of sin.

to be continued…

184

Okay stellar,

If YOUR God is alcohol, and stings that “sin” which is the abrasions on your soul, then MY God is aloe vera… soothing and comforting, regardless of what you have done or what you are doing or what it is you will do. He simply doesn’t care. He loves us all enough to provide us warmth and light no matter what.

Why be a masochist with your belief system? Do you feel like you need to feel pain for some reason? Do you need that fear and sense of guilt to suck away at your life, dulling your accomplishments and making everything in your life like some preparatory school for the afterlife?

Let go of all that negative, buddy, and come to the light…

Bring sunglasses.

185

Every Christian faith (besides Orthodox Christianity) sadly teaches that heaven and hell are CREATED places which God made to reward the good and punish the evil. I can understand why atheists hear of such a dogma and are permanently repelled from the Christian Faith; after all, how can God be so vindictive, vengeful, condemning, and non-forgiving if He’s all about love?
Let it be known that the above teaching is sheer heresy. The Orthodox Christian Church (est. 33 AD) has never propagated this notion. This heresy arose within the Roman Catholic Church in the 900’s and was transmitted amongst Protestant denominations in the 1500’s despite the Reformation. These factions continue to preserve this erroneous teaching of heaven & hell so beware who interprets the Christian Faith to you as it may not be what Jesus Christ and the early Church preached.

The Orthodox Christian Church teaches that heaven and hell are actually spiritual dispositions in God, NOT created places. In the Day of Judgment, everyone will be judged by God’s burning love. Furthermore, this is going to astound many of you, EVERYONE goes into the metaphorical lake of fire. This lake of fire is actually God’s burning love.

*Refer to my prior post on how some will experience God’s infinite love blissfully while others will be in agonizing torment.

Because God is unchanging, and this life is the only one in which we may repent, and God will never cease to be - every individual’s disposition will be everlasting and final in that Day of Judgment.

As the sun shines upon clay and hardens it, that same sun shines upon wax and melts it. Same sun, same heating effect. Two different materials, two different reactions. So it is with man and their various spiritual “materials”.

1 Corinthians 3:11
“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for that Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.”

As gold and wood both go into a furnace, and gold comes out purified and luminous while the wood comes out charred and blackened, so it will be in the Day of Judgment for everyone of us. We need to struggle to change our ways and actively repent if we can not. It takes an exhaustive amount of effort in battling sin and changing our spiritual disposition from wood to gold, but with God, all things are possible.

Peace be with you all!

186

I highly recommend this link for EVERYONE seeking to learn more about Christianity in its most traditional, unfiltered, and non-innovated form:
http://www.fatheralexander.org/page6.htm

A popular Orthodox Christian site:
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/index.aspx

For Christian scholars:
http://www.romanity.org/cont.htm

Peace be with you all.

187

[quote]miniross wrote:
Most christian celebrations are still tied to these pagan ideas, dont you think (christmas, easter, harvest (in the uk at least)) the whole “REBORN” thing ties in nicely with spring, a time of renewal.[/quote]

The Orthodox Christian Pascha (Easter) is not connected with any form of paganism. It simply parallels the Jewish Passover.

The Christmas anniversary, as I understand it, is strictly meant to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. The holy day was strategically aligned in a season when pagans celebrated their own festivities. It was designed in this way so that new converts would have a way of expressing their new beliefs in direct opposition to their pagans counterparts. It also helped diminish temptation from reverting back to their old ways during pagan festivals; drunken revelries, participation in sexually immoral acts, sacrifices to the gods, etc. After all, if someone’s a recovering alcoholic, is it wise to let him go hang with a bunch of boozers at the local bar?

Never heard about the harvest ritual in the UK you’re referring to…

188

Okay, I’m hearing ya, pal…

But we have all these nice metaphors like the gold and the wood, the wax and the clay, etc., and that’s pretty poetic, but what we’re still missing here is how those cuts or whatever get on your soul in the first place. Since God doesn’t do it, then it must be something else…

Let me guess – a bunch of guys made up some rules to let us know when we are bad or sin, or whatever. And there’s a penalty for not doing what they say… um… you see what I’m getting at here? It’s still just fear and control. Do what this book says OR ELSE.

The fact that you color your God as impartial, and place the blame on the sinner here doesn’t change a dang thing. What we have here is some dudes trying to impose their will on you. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing when they’re telling you that you shouldn’t go out and hurt other people… I like that. But when they start to use that sway to divide us and tell us that some people are by their very nature damned, (like the anti-gay stuff), and that we shouldn’t protect ourselves from disease because that is against God (like the no condoms thing), then I start to have a problem with this crap.

Remember that Police song “De doo doo doo de dah dah dah”? That all I’m trying to say to you. Grab a beer and get a tan, brother. The sun doesn’t care if you use condoms, or get an abortion, or use stem cells in research, or get married to someone of the same gender, or go to some church, or read some book, or get a haricut, or anything.

This is YOUR life. YOU live it.

189

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Okay stellar,

If YOUR God is alcohol, and stings that “sin” which is the abrasions on your soul, then MY God is aloe vera… soothing and comforting, regardless of what you have done or what you are doing or what it is you will do. He simply doesn’t care. He loves us all enough to provide us warmth and light no matter what.

Why be a masochist with your belief system? Do you feel like you need to feel pain for some reason? Do you need that fear and sense of guilt to suck away at your life, dulling your accomplishments and making everything in your life like some preparatory school for the afterlife?

Let go of all that negative, buddy, and come to the light…

Bring sunglasses.[/quote]

God is not a figment of my imagination. He is very real, unlike the false gods athiests venerate like money, hedonism, and carnal sensations. Everyone believes in one god or another. Whatever your god may be, you surely suffer for its cause in some way. Life can’t be all peachy, even for athiests - so quit acting like it’s smooth sailing for you and that Christianity is such a huge burden. You aren’t walking the Christian walk, so don’t presume you can psychoanalyze me. I was once an athiest too but I’d never want to revert back to that dismal state of spiritual confusion. You can hide behind your happy-go-lucky mask lothario, but I see right through it. I can smell the flowers too, and appreciate the sunrise at dawn, and go for a long walk along the beach with nothing but a feeling of tranquility & peace. Just because I’m a Christian doesn’t mean I’m a masochist or that I’m plagued with guilt-ridden fears. In fact, I get delighted just thinking about the glory which awaits me in heaven if I remain focused on the journey to salvation.

It’s easy to bash the Christian Faith when it wasn’t preached right to you from the get-go. I provided a clear explanation about how God has infinite, unconditional love for all His creation while at the same time exhibiting how some will suffer endlessly in a state of torment because they failed to rectify their spiritual maladies.

Apparently this was one of your greater qualms regarding Christian theology, but now that it’s been answered, I anticipate you’ll only be digging for more questions NOT for the sake of truth, but to support your unbelief.

You keep your mask, I’ll keep my Faith.

190

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:

The Christmas anniversary, as I understand it, is strictly meant to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. The holy day was strategically aligned in a season when pagans celebrated their own festivities. It was designed in this way so that new converts would have a way of expressing their new beliefs in direct opposition to their pagans counterparts. It also helped diminish temptation from reverting back to their old ways during pagan festivals; drunken revelries, participation in sexually immoral acts, sacrifices to the gods, etc. After all, if someone’s a recovering alcoholic, is it wise to let him go hang with a bunch of boozers at the local bar?

Never heard about the harvest ritual in the UK you’re referring to…

[/quote]

Actually from what I understand, Easter is connected with paganism as much as Christmas. The cults of the time, all of which predate christianity, all celebrate a crucified, dying, resurrection god-man on easter—or more specifically at the time of the spring equinox–Christmas is aligned with the winter solstice-(I think). I would also suggest that it is unlikely Christmas was “designed” to happen at it’s present date–more likely is that it was adapted from the many god-man cults Mithras, Osiris, Attis, and many others, all born on Dec. 25–Dionysus afterall was also born to virgin, in a cave on dec. 25th before 3 shephards.

191

hi, i will, but i am very fair skinned. is a sunblck allowed for “responsible worship”?

192

What has hedonism, money etc got to do with being atheist, seriously. I mean, the mafia are a religious bunch, but their pursuits are ok, as they tend to be catholics? i assume that you pursue some financial menas to support your family, pay their way through university to give them a better chance, or is prayer all the currency that is needed now?

And you were an atheist, so what changed you, drink, drugs or prison. and if christianity was indoctrinated then i wouldn’t bash it. i would be brainwashed.

And God cant have unconditonal love, if you have to live by rules to receive that love. therefore it is not unconditional. I am destined for gnashing and wailing. that doesn’t sound very loving to me.

One last thing.

if the glory that awaits is so fabulous, then you dont fear death then?
I love the ingenious nature of the bible. would i be right in thinking that suicide is a sin? If it wasn’t, and heaven was proported as being this …heaven, then i guess we would all top ourselves post haste to get there, but if we did that we would go to hell.

sounds like charlie and the chocolate factory.

193

yep, thats right.

in the UK, the harvest festivel is celebrated at the time of the harvest. It has nicely been absoebed into the chuch, even though it has undoubted roots in pagan worship.

As far as setting these things up so they didn’t go back to what they were doing, me thinks no. this was needed to extend appeal, a comrpomise over the basis of a religion.

that is not looking good for upholding the credibility of the entire concept of christianity.

194

Other guy…

That stuff you posted hasn’t been proven it is just a theory. (This’ll tie into string theory in a second) And I’m guessing ZPE is part of “Dark Energy” along with dark matter that they’ve found altering the paths of planets in other solar systems. Read up about it. I don’t see the existence of dark energy or matter refuting what I said in the slightest. However, I find this ZPE stuff interesting. If you find something a little more in depth. I’d be happy to read it and see what it says.

Miniross,
Would it help if I said true vaccuum? Devoid of matter, energy, dark matter, dark energy, photons, ANYTHING. Yeah, outspace is a “vaccuum”, it doesn’t have air, but it has stuff. Try starting from exactly zero and moving on from there.

I think that missing link crap in evolution is hogwash. I think it’s pretty evident we expeirenced divergent evolution at some part from all primates and later from the great apes. I used it to illustrate an example of people doing the same thing with a much weaker case.

On the topic of String Theory. Which of the 5 mathmatically sound proofs are you referring too? We only have one universe and one way to explain it so which is right? Come on… this is a great question. Humanity would be better for knowing.

Actually, I beleive in string theory. I think the proofs are horseshit and mathematical manipulation, but pose an interesting promise to the future.

In closing, don’t take a little bit of science and stretch it into religion. They don’t ask/answer the same questions.

195

I was talking about the piscine missing link. this is the the alledged missing link that many go on about, moving from 6 to 5 didgits (like the ceoleacanth).

also, it would be impossible to derive a specific point where as it were, diverged form the primate group. as it stands, if you were to stand all species of a type next to each other, all you would see are tiny changes, blurring into the next individual.

Even the term species, and what differentiates it from others may be sexualy, descriptive and even geographically led.

e.g., a norh atlantic tern and an artic tern are different species, but would produce viable offspring if they had the oppotunity (haven’t due to location), thus rendering the most widely understood explanation of seciation irrelevent here.

196

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Other guy…

That stuff you posted hasn’t been proven it is just a theory. (This’ll tie into string theory in a second) And I’m guessing ZPE is part of “Dark Energy” along with dark matter that they’ve found altering the paths of planets in other solar systems. Read up about it. I don’t see the existence of dark energy or matter refuting what I said in the slightest. However, I find this ZPE stuff interesting. If you find something a little more in depth. I’d be happy to read it and see what it says.

Miniross,
Would it help if I said true vaccuum? Devoid of matter, energy, dark matter, dark energy, photons, ANYTHING. Yeah, outspace is a “vaccuum”, it doesn’t have air, but it has stuff. Try starting from exactly zero and moving on from there.

I think that missing link crap in evolution is hogwash. I think it’s pretty evident we expeirenced divergent evolution at some part from all primates and later from the great apes. I used it to illustrate an example of people doing the same thing with a much weaker case.

On the topic of String Theory. Which of the 5 mathmatically sound proofs are you referring too? We only have one universe and one way to explain it so which is right? Come on… this is a great question. Humanity would be better for knowing.

Actually, I beleive in string theory. I think the proofs are horseshit and mathematical manipulation, but pose an interesting promise to the future.

In closing, don’t take a little bit of science and stretch it into religion. They don’t ask/answer the same questions.[/quote]

I never stated that string theory was proofed, just that they are theorised. one should also be wary of “believing” in a science. what is better to say is “i have seen presented evidence and on balance this appears to be correct, because…”.

Likewise, string theory holds posibilities, when we ain the technology to investigate and prove, but intil then, it is theory, a strong one, but theory none the less. i guess that is why it is so interesting, in that it has possiblilites, not absolutes.

197

Excellent points about string theory and such. Divergent evolution is hard to point and say “Here’s when they split.” But its easier to do it in hindsight and say “We found these fossils and now have these different species”

But once again. I really don’t feel science or religion even approach the same subject. The Bible is a theological books and in the classical Christian understanding is not to be taken literally and used as such. The history, biology and science are all chicken shit in the Bible.

Oh and on Adam and Eve. The metaphor with the rib is that she is equivalent to man. A lower bone in the body such as the foot or leg would imply subservience. While the skull or a higher bone would mean she is superior. The rib implies equality. Take some time. Attend a few classes maybe do a little research and its all more clear.

198

[quote]miniross wrote:
What has hedonism, money etc got to do with being atheist, seriously. I mean, the mafia are a religious bunch, but their pursuits are ok, as they tend to be catholics?
[/quote]
If you really believe the mafia is justifiably labeled a Christo-centered organization, you need to catch up on the true Christian Faith. There are many people who use Christianity, or any other religion/philosophy, as a cloak to elevate themselves above others or to profit in some devious way. Stereotypically, the mafia is conveyed as going around drugging, extorting, and killing people for the sake of maintaining an earthly empire, prospering financially at any cost, and living luxuriously and carnally. This is anything BUT Christian! I can call myself a die-hard vegan, but if I go around eating a T-bone steak for breakfast, lunch, and dinner it doesn’t mean I actually am.

I work to live, not live to work. Everyone has financial responsibilities and future goals they’re trying to secure, but the danger is when people are so driven to chase after the dollar so they can engage in selfish extravagence and luxuries. This is when money or pleasure becomes idolized and takes the place of God within the heart of man.

PLEASE GO BACK AND READ MY POSTS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. You completely missed the message. God’s laws are therapeutic in that they change the spiritual “material” of man so that when man experiences God’s energies in the Day of Judgment, it will be blissful rather than tormenting.

Just like Steve who wanted to make Bill’s varsity squad but was not physically equipped to pass the minimum qualification, so it will be with sinners who are not spiritually equipped to handle God’s infinite love in the Day of Judgment. As Steve failed to condition his body by obeying the guidelines which his track coach set forth, so it will be with sinners who haven’t conditioned their souls by obeying the guidelines which God has set forth, whether by ignorance, stubborn resistance, or sloth.
Obeying the laws of God conditions the human soul. We’ll all have to run a spiritual race in the Day of Judgment, and Christ has given us tips on how to prepare so that we’ll achieve victory. That Day will come, whether we like it or not, and we need to relentlessly prepare for that experience. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for teaching us how to prepare for It.

If you believed you’d be taking a life-changing test on astrophysics, wouldn’t you buy a few good books to help you study and seek out a tutor well educated on the subject?
I believe there’s a Judgment Day. I believe in the Bible to be a good study guide. I believe that Orthodox Christian priests serve as good tutors. I want to be as best prepared for that event.

Peace be with you all!

199

[quote]miniross wrote:
in the UK, the harvest festivel is celebrated at the time of the harvest. It has nicely been absoebed into the chuch, even though it has undoubted roots in pagan worship.
[/quote]
I won’t comment on this harvest festival because I’ve never heard about it. I also don’t know what “church” you speak of. I will say this though, there is the one true Christian Church and then there are many other heretical so-called churches. Don’t base any judgment on the true Christian Faith if your analysis has been conducted on impure sources of observation.

[quote]
As far as setting these things up so they didn’t go back to what they were doing, me thinks no. this was needed to extend appeal, a comrpomise over the basis of a religion.

that is not looking good for upholding the credibility of the entire concept of christianity.[/quote]

How does this damage the credibility of Christianity? Think about when you were a kid and your mom told you that if you finished your veggies, you could play video games. She was persuading you to do something healthy (eat the veggies) by appealing to your concept of pleasure (video games). She was enticing you to do something healthy through positive reinforcement because she loved you and eating veggies was for your own good.

I don’t understand why you think Christmas being celebrated during the pagan season destroys the credibility of Christianity. In fact, the Bible tesifies that thousands of pagans were converting to Christianity by the boat loads. Enticing pagans with a new form of ritual proved to be a successful endeavor. God understood the value of ritual and the need for humans to experience it that even the Jews and Christians were given divine rituals of their own directly from God. So I still don’t agree with your point.

The main highlight to remember is that the Christian Faith was so strong and powerful to these converted pagans who’d for centuries been basking in rituals of their own, that hundreds perished at the hands of their former religious community when they refused to sacrifice to stone gods & idols or deny Jesus Christ as their one and only God. And the gruesome, public manner of suffering and styles of execution these neo-Christians faced, well that’s a whole other thread. So strong were their new convictions, so strong was their faith in Christ. It’s safe to say they weren’t joining the ranks of Christianity to party.

200

stellar: So your whole life is just some big preparatory event, then, huh?

That’s kinda depressing.

All these moments in your life pass you right by, and just like in a game of tag, you cling to home base to make sure you can’t get tagged out.

Well, if that’s how you wanna do it, that’s cool with me. Oh, and your statement “…everyone believes in one God or another…” – no I don’t. That’s the whole point here to being an atheist. I am not subscribing to the fairy tale, bro. I don’t worship or idolize anything. And it’s not just me. There’s a whole bunch of people who are just like me.

There is nothing “spiritually confusing” about this. Quite the opposite, actually. You see, I don’t have to sort through a bunch of passages in some old book to tell me how to live my life. I just go out there and live it. How much more cut and dry can it get than that?

And yeah, every once in a while, this life isn’t fair. Sometimes it fucking sucks. I see tragedy every single day at work. But that’s no excuse to throw up your hands and give up living your own life just so you can pretend that there’s some deep inner meaning to everything, and that there’s some extraplanar paradise waiting for you despite the setbacks and down points in your life. Sometimes shit really does just happen. My advice to anyone who asks: deal with it. Because it’s not always bad. Sometimes this life is incredible, and beautiful, and even majestic. In fact, think of any adjective in our language, whether it’s a positive or negative and you can find some way that it applies to this life.

This is no mask, stellar. This is reality. The fact that I look for the upside to this as much as I can is just my personality. For every reason you can give me to not be an optimist, I will give you two to the contrary. Take your painful burning hell that’s waiting for me and stick it. I am not scared.

PS You missed the pool today. I got a sunburn on my nose, but there was a couple of hot girls there. We’re doing it again tomorrow if you’re interested… :slight_smile: