Kettlebell Training Thread

Never Let Go - I love Dan John, but because the “book” is really just a collection of articles I do think it gets repetitive. I still enjoyed it because it’s such a good philosophical read and it hammers the idea that hard work matters more than a special piece of equipment of training style. Just do work. That’s why I love the kettlebell. Pick it up, swing it, squat it, press it, toss it overhead.

I strict pressed my 88 for the first time tonight (I’ve push pressed it before, but the strict press was a first)

Gotta keep working my snatches, though!

Hi Furo,

You can read all about the 40 day workout here: The 40-Day Program

Dan and Pavel also turned this whole concept of not going all that hard into their book Easy Strength. It is a pretty cool resource (though for me, that book complicates the idea of the 40 day workout itself, I prefer how the article lays things out).

I’ve run the program three times now, I think. The workouts take about 25 minutes or so. As a guy who loves the minimalist training route, you could dig it. There was also a guy on the forums here (maybe BCFlynn?? I could be wrong) who did this program with all kettlebell moves.

Never Let Go is a great read, too. Like ActivitiesGuy said, a ton to take away from it. I go back to it from time to time to read individual articles. But reading through it in one go is a lot to take in. It becomes both repetitive and includes too much new stuff to implement at once.

And if you are curious about kettlebell sport, look into Valery Fedorenko’s organization. And the youtube videos by Sergey Rudnev can be quite instructive. I’m not sure if it’s where you want to be, but those two guys are possibly the best to start with given their credentials.

Thanks again for starting this. It’s fun to chat about all this.

Turkish get ups are pretty awsome, I’ve found that they really aid to explosiveness and have improved my grappling strength.

ActivitiesGuy: Nice one man! :slight_smile:

Booksbikesbeer: Oh that’s a great article, thank you very much! I don’t know how I’d missed that one up until now. It actually looks like an ideal programme for me to try right now, as I’m not following a set routine at the moment. I’ll do it with kettlebells only as that’s what I have available. The only tricky exercise to replace would be the heavy hinge, but a 40kg snatch would fit the bill quite nicely. Thanks for the links regarding kettlebell sport :slight_smile:

Kaijugo: That’s good to hear man, I quite like Turkish get-ups but I don’t do them often anymore. What type of grappling do you do?

The heavy snatch could do it. I can’t imagine snatching the 40kg, though. Well, maybe. What I can’t imagine is dropping it from the top, lol.

If you were looking for more of a grind type lift, you could do single leg deadlifts. I used to do those a bunch before I got a barbell. And mixing different weighted bells in each hand is no problem at all.

And I’m glad you dug the article. I come back to that one pretty regularly.

I’m sorry for being late to the party.
Bells Owned 35, two 45’s, 55’s, one 62, two 70’s, two 88’s

Favorite Exercises:
Snatches, both single and double Have done the 100 in five minutes, all time best in 10 was 160. Today just prefer to do sets of 5 at the top of each minute for 5 minutes

Clean and press. Did the ROP with a 70 for 12 weeks. Don’t own an 80, can’t press the 88 yet, but can push press. Like double presses better. Sets of 2-3 with 70’s perfect

Turkish Get ups. Can TGU the 88, have done 10 on each side in a workout. Can do 15 each side with a 70 in under 15 minutes. Favorite workout is set the clock for 15 minutes, grab a 24 kg bell. Start at the top do the get down, then the get up. Switch hands but don’t put the bell down. Keep going. Not putting the bell down wears you out. The get down is worse than the getup when you go heavy

Double Front Squat. Who needs a barbell or zercher. Great for the abs

Two hand swings: I don’t love one hand swings but do them. Heavy two hand swings are taxing on the grip.

Double cleans. Great for grip, underrated exercise. Can be tough on the hands

Double reverse lunges. Superset these with double snatches for 15 minutes. Sets of 3-5. A true killer

Deadlift with double 88’s. Great hamstring assistance work

Double swings outside the knees

Seated military press. Sit on floor with legs spread, back upright. Hold bell in rack position. You really need to be tight.

Double Clean and Jerk A real heart thumper

Exercises I won’t do
Windmill. I used to do these but it bugs my tailbone.
Renegade Rows. Bell came out from beneath me once. I’ll stick with rows and pull-ups.
Sots Press. Really bothered my upper back.

Favorite workouts
Escalated Density Training with kettlebells is the best. Strength and conditioning at once
ROP Except leaving out squatting is the weak link
Geoff Neupert’s More Kettlebell Muscle 20 different complexes that can also be done as chains. If you have never done chains, you are really missing out
Cluster training with double kettlebells
40 day workout: Squats Presses, Rows, Double Swings for a set of 20-30, Turkis Getups

German Volume Training and The Bear were brutally boring

Hardest workout I ever did, ladder style, 1,2,3,4,5 70 lb. kettlebell. Snatch to Press, Squat, switch hands, then a pull-up . Only completed 2 ladders.

There’s BCFlynn. Figured you’d have some good stuff to contribute.

I realize that my first couple of posts in this thread were just kind of fluffy “YAY KETTLEBELLS!” posts.

In the interest of being more productive, I’ll share a little workout that I’ve been doing lately:

10 Swings / 1 Goblet Squat
15 Swings / 2 Goblet Squats
20 Swings / 3 Goblet Squats
25 Swings / 4 Goblet Squats
30 Swings

One round totals 100 swings and 10 squats. I’ve found that going through this cycle three times with a progressively heavier bell (I’ve gone 44, 53, 88) is a SUPER workout that leaves you sucking wind towards the end, but doesn’t beat you up so much (this could easily be repeated several days in a row). Takes 20-25 minutes depending on how much rest you allow.

To be sure, you can find solid routines from the experts yourselves (and yeah, this is just a repackaging of Dan John’s workouts into a set-and-rep scheme that I slightly preferred). Not saying this is some magical panacea. But since I tend to just make my own workouts up based on how I feel that day, I often play little numbers games to get myself to put work in for 20-30 minutes, and figured others may find self-created workout suggestions useful.

The beauty of them is the different exercises you can do. Are you going to get jacked, not, but for strength and conditioning, they can’t be beat.

My favorite stuff comes from Mahler and Neupert. Doing Kettlebell Burn Extreme right now to take off some weight. The workout is quite tolerable but the diet and the “recovey methods” are mentally tough. Take a cold shower for 5-10 minutes in the dead of winter and get back to me.

What benefits are there to doing these with kettlebells instead of dumbbells?

For example, is there a serious difference between doing one-armed snatches with a DB as opposed to a KB?

A one-arm DB snatch, likewise with a clean-and-press, is still a worthwhile exercise but it’s quite a different feel because of the weight distribution with a KB vs that of a DB. I don’t know that I have a better explanation than that, hopefully someone else can speak about it a bit more eloquently.

You can still use DB’s in lieu of KB’s if you don’t have access to them or don’t feel like buying your own, but I do think using the KB is somewhat more enjoyable for things like swings and snatches. Goblet squats, presses, Turkish get ups all can be mimicked pretty well with DBs. Swings and snatches are te ones that really stand out as benefiting from a KB instead of a DB.

Ya, I imagine the difference in weight distribution would make the KB much more difficult to use than DBs. I’ve picked up 55lb KBs at sporting stores and noticed that it actually feels heavy. In comparison, a 55lb DB feels light.

I’m just curious if there is a genuinely good reason to buy a 55lb KB as opposed to a 55lb DB if I wanted to do something at home. It’s just that KB are more expensive than DBs and I want to know if there is a good reason to pay the price.

Power to the People! was my introduction to lifting weights. I did 2 sets of 5 bench and deadlift for a couple of months. It went well enough that I bought a copy of Rite of Passage and a 35lb kb. I wrung gains out of ROP for two years, and eventually finished it (OHP with the 88kg, body weight of 190@6’6", SSST). Then I got my first girlfriend, and my first job, and lost focus. While on ROP, my variety days were exactly as they were in the book, two sets of 5 deadlifts, cleans with the heavier bell etc. I eventually discovered T-Nation when I was trying to figure out why my pressing progress had stalled, and bought SURGE Recovery, which literally restarted it.

I did “The Warrior Diet” detailed here at T-Nation, mostly because I had gotten the cheapest meal plan at my campus dining hall (5 trips to the buffet a week, plus a sixth I purchased, and a meal at home with my family), and trained fasted before mealtimes. In retrospect I was probably pretty lean, but I felt fat and gross, so YMMV.

Pavel isn’t lying when he says the strength you build on the ROP will stay with you. There has never been a time in my life since then, no matter how out of shape, lazy about training, exhausted from work, etc that I can’t press the 32kg bell at least once with both arms. On good days, I can press the 40kg. My deadlift is nothing to be proud of, but it started with 90lbs on the bar, and it has never fallen below where I was at the end of the ROP. I can also walk over to the bell and bang out 100 swings in 5 minutes, I might want to die afterwards, but I will do them.

I’m not sure I can recommend the ROP, I’m pretty sure I have some strength imbalances because of it, I may have exacerbated some injuries with improper kettlebell handling, and I would probably be better at the conventional powerlifts if I had done starting strength or something similar.

I won’t claim to be especially dedicated to training, I’ve tried using my kettlebells as a “complete home gym”, it did not work too well. There is something special that happens when you put your body under a heavy load. I think the twice a week deadlifts were far more important to the overall success of the ROP than the book suggests.

If I had Indigo-3G, Plazma, and MAG-10 then, I would definitely have used them. Probably one scoop of Plazma before the strength ladders and 1 scoop before the conditioning sections on the ROP workouts. Also, I would not have used dice for the length of the conditioning workouts, I would have made sure there’s an even distribution of short and long ones.

I’ve tried “Press the Damn Kettlebell Everytime You Walk Past It”, and S&S, but without something really heavy somewhere, it doesn’t feel complete.

I did switch to a modified S&S because I didn’t feel like getting muddy in the morning. My protocol with the 32kg: Without dropping the bell, 10 swings, clean, press, windmill, figure 8 (to switch hands), repeat until 5/50 swings and presses per side, never drop the bell; some days it felt easy, some days it really kicked my ass. Peri-workout was usually just a serving of MAG-10, mostly because I didn’t feel like I “earned” peri-workout carbs with such a short session.

I haven’t found any books or good training information on Kettlebell Sport Training although it’s not like I have look real hard either. If I find some decent literature I will post it on this forum or if you guys come across anything that looks worthwhile please post if the moderators will let you. The books I have are all from Pavel when it comes to kettlebell training which like furo said earlier is more about strength development.

Glad BCFlynn has joined the party since he is a big doubles guy and has had a lot of experience with kettlebell training. All we are missing now is DrGelbman!!!

[quote]JoinInTheChant wrote:

I’m not sure I can recommend the ROP, I’m pretty sure I have some strength imbalances because of it, I may have exacerbated some injuries with improper kettlebell handling, and I would probably be better at the conventional powerlifts if I had done starting strength or something similar.

[/quote]

Hey JoinInTheChat,

Thanks for the long write up of your history. It’s really interesting, and I like your take on the workouts.

I’m curious, would you mind going into more details about the strength imbalances you mention above? I tend to feel quite balanced when I’m working on the ROP, but I could be missing a lot of things. This is the style I’ve spent most of my time training in, so I don’t know about a lot of other programs and methods.

Thanks.

[quote]magick wrote:
Ya, I imagine the difference in weight distribution would make the KB much more difficult to use than DBs. I’ve picked up 55lb KBs at sporting stores and noticed that it actually feels heavy. In comparison, a 55lb DB feels light.

I’m just curious if there is a genuinely good reason to buy a 55lb KB as opposed to a 55lb DB if I wanted to do something at home. It’s just that KB are more expensive than DBs and I want to know if there is a good reason to pay the price.[/quote]

I have a CAP 50lb Kettlebell. The only things it has in common with a 50lb dumbbell is weighing 50lbs and having a handle to grab it with.

Besides having a much larger diameter grip, the “feel” of a KB is totally different from a DB. I find this to be noticeable on just about every movement I do with it. The only movement I can think of where a KB “feels” like a DB would be a row. Everything else is much different (and usually much harder) with a KB.

Of course, the decision to buy a KB or a DB really depends on what you want out of your money. For my purposes, DB’s are basically assistance lift tools to compliment my barbell strength work. A KB is a conditioning tool for me, I don’t train with it having any expectation of real strength gains.

As a home option, I would opt for a single 55lb KB over a single 55lb DB every day, all day. The reason, for me anyway, is simple. Explosive, full-body movements like swings, snatches and clean+press paired with some goblet squats and a few other movements like rows and pushups make the KB a simple ticket to an effective full-body workout.

It is also indestructible, with no moving parts. It should last longer than I will. It takes up minimal space. Portability is nice, as I can take it with me and get a better workout with the KB than I can at a typical hotel gym (DB’s up to 50, a bench or two and some cardio machines). It goes on my camping trips too.

I think of my kettlebell as bargain Crossfit. For less than the cost of one month at a Crossfit box, I can do high-rep explosive lifts with it to get my heart rate up, wage war on the belly and make me a little bit stronger too.

Speaking of which, I need to get that 'bell out more this week. I’ve been capitalizing on the bitter cold and huge snowfalls to give me the pretense I need to stay inside, drink too much beer and make steak au poivre for lunch and bison meatloaf with shitake mushrooms and chopped onions for dinner.

I believe the kettlebell will help cure me of the resulting condition much better than a DB will!

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
As a home option, I would opt for a single 55lb KB over a single 55lb DB every day, all day. The reason, for me anyway, is simple. Explosive, full-body movements like swings, snatches and clean+press paired with some goblet squats and a few other movements like rows and pushups make the KB a simple ticket to an effective full-body workout.

It is also indestructible, with no moving parts. It should last longer than I will. It takes up minimal space. Portability is nice, as I can take it with me and get a better workout with the KB than I can at a typical hotel gym (DB’s up to 50, a bench or two and some cardio machines). It goes on my camping trips too.

I think of my kettlebell as bargain Crossfit. For less than the cost of one month at a Crossfit box, I can do high-rep explosive lifts with it to get my heart rate up, wage war on the belly and make me a little bit stronger too.
[/quote]

I second all of this.

It really depends what you already have, what you already do, etc.

But for me - a guy that likes to work out at home and does not have the space ATM for a full barbell setup - I feel that I can stay in pretty good condition (strength and endurance both) with my collection of KB’s, and that I honestly could do OK with just a single 53-pounder. I’ve done the take-a-KB-on-a-vacation several times. I guess you could do the same with a single DB, but I just like KB more for the high-rep ballistics of swings and snatches.

i have a 18 kg kettlebell.
sometimes i do two arm swings at the end of leg workouts.
sometimes i do dan john’s countdown stuff. my favorite is;

10 swings 10 push ups
9 swings 9 push ups
keep dropping reps until
1 swing 1 push up

this is a really nice, short but effective conditioning workout.

[quote]booksbikesbeer wrote:
Hey JoinInTheChat,

Thanks for the long write up of your history. It’s really interesting, and I like your take on the workouts.

I’m curious, would you mind going into more details about the strength imbalances you mention above? I tend to feel quite balanced when I’m working on the ROP, but I could be missing a lot of things. This is the style I’ve spent most of my time training in, so I don’t know about a lot of other programs and methods.

Thanks.
[/quote]

My squat and bench lagged way behind my deadlift and OHP, my military press is not 2x my OHP.

Many articles on T-Nation (first that came up, here: 3 Shoulder Training Tips and 5 Exercises ) have suggested that “too much” overhead pressing can be detrimental to the shoulders, especially without anything else. ROP is built around the OHP, so if any program is going to push you into “too much, to the detriment of everything else”, it’s probably this one.

If it’s working for you, please for the love of god, don’t stop, my strength gains from the ROP have lasted longer than anything else I’ve ever gotten from training.

[quote]JoinInTheChant wrote:

[quote]booksbikesbeer wrote:
Hey JoinInTheChat,

Thanks for the long write up of your history. It’s really interesting, and I like your take on the workouts.

I’m curious, would you mind going into more details about the strength imbalances you mention above? I tend to feel quite balanced when I’m working on the ROP, but I could be missing a lot of things. This is the style I’ve spent most of my time training in, so I don’t know about a lot of other programs and methods.

Thanks.
[/quote]

My squat and bench lagged way behind my deadlift and OHP, my military press is not 2x my OHP.

Many articles on T-Nation (first that came up, here: 3 Shoulder Training Tips and 5 Exercises ) have suggested that “too much” overhead pressing can be detrimental to the shoulders, especially without anything else. ROP is built around the OHP, so if any program is going to push you into “too much, to the detriment of everything else”, it’s probably this one.

If it’s working for you, please for the love of god, don’t stop, my strength gains from the ROP have lasted longer than anything else I’ve ever gotten from training. [/quote]

Thanks for the reply. And that does make a lot of sense. I think most kettlebell programs (and ROP especially) overdevelop the press and hinge/deadlift. So it makes sense those would be your strongest lifts.

And the same is true for me. I guess the main difference would be I don’t have aspirations towards benching and squatting. With the former, I workout at home and don’t have a bench, so I don’t do it. With the latter, things are similar (no squat rack), so when I do squat it’s zercher style or front squat and generally for more reps and less weight. There won’t be any powerlifting in my future.

I totally agree with you on the pressing volume with ROP. I don’t think it is sustainable and can probably lead to some problems. I tend to stay on it for 2 to 5 months and then move to other things.

What do your workouts look like now? How do you (if you do) incorporate the bells?

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
I have a CAP 50lb Kettlebell. The only things it has in common with a 50lb dumbbell is weighing 50lbs and having a handle to grab it with.

Besides having a much larger diameter grip, the “feel” of a KB is totally different from a DB. I find this to be noticeable on just about every movement I do with it. The only movement I can think of where a KB “feels” like a DB would be a row. Everything else is much different (and usually much harder) with a KB.

Of course, the decision to buy a KB or a DB really depends on what you want out of your money. For my purposes, DB’s are basically assistance lift tools to compliment my barbell strength work. A KB is a conditioning tool for me, I don’t train with it having any expectation of real strength gains.

As a home option, I would opt for a single 55lb KB over a single 55lb DB every day, all day. The reason, for me anyway, is simple. Explosive, full-body movements like swings, snatches and clean+press paired with some goblet squats and a few other movements like rows and pushups make the KB a simple ticket to an effective full-body workout.

It is also indestructible, with no moving parts. It should last longer than I will. It takes up minimal space. Portability is nice, as I can take it with me and get a better workout with the KB than I can at a typical hotel gym (DB’s up to 50, a bench or two and some cardio machines). It goes on my camping trips too.

I think of my kettlebell as bargain Crossfit. For less than the cost of one month at a Crossfit box, I can do high-rep explosive lifts with it to get my heart rate up, wage war on the belly and make me a little bit stronger too.

Speaking of which, I need to get that 'bell out more this week. I’ve been capitalizing on the bitter cold and huge snowfalls to give me the pretense I need to stay inside, drink too much beer and make steak au poivre for lunch and bison meatloaf with shitake mushrooms and chopped onions for dinner.

I believe the kettlebell will help cure me of the resulting condition much better than a DB will!
[/quote]

Thanks for the write-up. I’ve never trained with a kettlebell before, but I would imagine it is quite a bit harder than a dumbbell to use.

I really want to get a kettlebell once I move to a more permanent home. Just swinging 55lb+ around and doing a bunch of things with it seems like a great way to maintain/build conditioning and general strength.