[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
We live in societies that encourage base and vulgar behavior, period. Again, the qualities one selects for in potential mates to a large degree determines the result one achieves. I think men often prioritize qualities they believe confer high status, but the qualities represent a degree of shallowness. Manicures, expensively dyed and cut hair, implants, store-bought tans…these are the girls who really shine at the bars. Women do the same thing, of course. You want to date a guy with a hot sports car, don’t be surprised when having “hot” things he can brag about is his priority. You’re not going to be that hot thing post-pregnancy, when you’ve got a kid on your hip and puke in your hair. If that’s okay with you, good. Rock on. But if you wanted something different you should have selected for it in the first place.[/quote]
See, this is an example of trying to see men as women with penises.
We do NOT want hight status.
We want youth and beauty.
“Manicures, expensively dyed and cut hair, implants, store-bought tans” are not signs of high socio-economic status, they are pretend youth and beauty.
Not that it does not work mind you.
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I did not say that the women are or have high status, I said they CONFER it. With their perceived “youth and beauty.” Men are impressed with themselves for possessing such women, it indicates (though only to others with the same shallow mindset) that they have the means to acquire this sort of object. But in my opinion they’re getting all excited about glass beads, meaningful only to people who lack the discernment to question their value or practical use. The prettiest woman at the bar is still a woman who spends her days preparing to go to a bar to hunt men SHE perceives as high status. I of course question the real value of these men as well. But at least they are well matched to the prizes they win.
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This is one of the deepest rooted human instincts, I am not quite sure that “shallow” really describes it.
I hope you also understand that I am very, very sceptical when women decribe such things as shallow, it is usually a sign that they have, or are willing to, settle with a less high status male who provides security.
That however is as shallow an instinct as any other, no matter how much it is rationalized. [/quote]
I’m not knocking real youth and beauty - these have biological underpinnings, as does the quest for a good provider. I’m talking about a particular type of woman and the men she attracts, or conversely a particular kind of man and the women he attracts.
Beautiful with integrity = win.
Successful with integrity = win.
No integrity = fail, no matter the externals.
Shallow is shallow. We all want the best mate we can “pull,” my only disagreement with you is what I see as your poor choice of priorities. Go for a pretty woman. Of course! As I will seek a handsome and successful man. But he has to have more than just that. He needs to be smart and thoughtful and looking for the same things I am. Things I value more than status, whatever that is. I would never choose someone like HoustonGuy for a boyfriend, for example, despite his reported good looks and financial success. He strikes me as being shallow. (Sorry HG if you’re reading!)
I think I am pretty. But again, I believe the men I’m drawn to are looking for more than just looks. I know in my relationship I’m appreciated for my willingness to go camping and for being low maintenance while there. I’m loved for my shockingly dirty mind and for my femininity and pretty underwear. His is a semi-political job and I know he appreciates that men generally find me appealing/attractive and women usually like me. I am an asset to him professionally. Although “hot” would not be a descriptor typically used to describe me, I know he finds all that combined with my looks and dirty mind pretty hot as a package. If he wanted blonde hair on a younger woman I imagine that he could have it.
I appreciate him because he’s very masculine and has never seemed threatened by me. I love that he can admit mistakes and I love the way he talks about his family. I love that he is devoted to his old friends and they to him, it speaks to his character. He is so fucking smart, and also has a shockingly dirty mind. I’m never bored with him. Also important to me is that he’s very hooked into his community. I’ve always moved around and never know what to say when people ask “where are you from?” He provides me a place to attach to. By the same token, my willingness to go to his corny parades and town festivals is a big selling point for him. In fact, I like that stuff better than he does.
His income is fine. But I have an income and savings and a car and a place and insurance and food and all the things I need and most of the things I want. If we move forward at some point our combined incomes will be even nicer, but for him as well as me.
I’m not sure why you assume that women are all out there trying to dupe men. Women can earn money nowadays. We can provide our own security. If we’re going to be stay-at-home-moms, then of course a breadwinner is needed, but I think many men want that role, so it’s not something done TO them. In addition to being decently employed, I cook well and have qualities that make me desirable as a stepmother. Should I spend my life worrying that some guy is going to take advantage?
