Kdjohn: Physical Philosophy & Iron Insights

I’m going to post a video response tonight after work to hopefully clarify things more. I hate lengthy discussions via typing, because I’m slow at it and my brain works way faster than my fingers so I often miss things.

Summary: I’m not discounting your experience, but it seems like you’re discounting my 7+ years of teaching, not including the extra years spent training. This has given me not only perspective from my own experience, but also the experience of hundreds of other students.

Ultimately, if someone just wants to train martial arts for a hobby and doesn’t care about the style, or progressing, then yes, pick whatever you want and have fun with it. There was, however, the question of where to start and the eventuality of ultimately learning a martial art for self-defence.

For a hobbyist that just wants to have fun, again, train whatever you want. In terms of a hobbyist who wants progression and is willing to put in work, I will still stand by the fact that judo/stand up grappling has less “core” components to practice than BJJ — this, again, is coming from someone who has trained both and taught both stand up and ground grappling.

I’m going to use this video as an opportunity to simply expand on what I was trying to convey earlier, because spoken word is easier for me, and I miss coaching.

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We could always just agree to disagree and move on with our lives.

I lost my appetite for in depth discussions with internet strangers a couple of years ago. That was the longest post I wrote in years and, having had a night’s sleep, I regret putting time into it.

It just miffed me that a post that I wrote in light-hearted humor (though I realize it actually lacked humor) and was nothing more than me giving my input into a subject that I have a mild interest in (hence the reason I didn’t deliberately quote anyone) would get people to act in what I can only describe as cliquish behavior.

Dumb question, but you seem like an expert:

How useful are “self defense classes”? Dad wants me to take some but I’m very skeptical that I’ll learn anything useful.

My instinct is to 1) avoid dangerous situations/sketchy places 2) stay in good enough shape to run 3) pepper spray/mace

Not a dumb question at all. Skepticism is good when something is marketed as saving your life.

Short answer: it depends. If it’s a 1hr seminar or workshop and they don’t try to jam a million techniques down your throat and instead focus on concepts, it’s probably legit.

Long answer: I’m personally wary of “self-defence” classes, simply because they there’s no indication of what exactly they’re teaching you. Because self-defence isn’t really a style, it’s a mindset, technically any martial art practiced in a certain way can be “self-defence”.

Usually, these classes are a mishmash of various techniques that make you feel like you can protect yourself, but without frequent exposure to them and live training, if you’re ever in a dangerous scenario, you’ll probably forget what you’re taught.

The school I taught at ran frequent women’s self-defence seminars/workshops (couple times a month), and while the techniques they showed were good in theory (it was bits and pieces of our core curriculum), I was against how the information was presented; it instilled a false sense of confidence in the attendees, and was ultimately just a tool to get people to sign up for full memberships to the school.

Many “self-defence” classes are used this way. The workshop is used to get people interested and sign up for long-term memberships.

All that to say, this isn’t ALWAYS the case, but it usually is. It never hurts to attend a free trial class (if offered), or do a handful of drop-in classes to see if you like it.

In my opinion, the best “self-defence” techniques (in order of most to least important) are:

  • Situational awareness. Practice observing what’s around you at all times. Don’t have your head down in your phone or be listening to music when you’re out and about. Make a habit of paying attention to the world.
  • Situational avoidance. Don’t put yourself in scenarios or areas that could be dangerous. If you’re ever approaching or in such a place, make your priority getting out of it. This should be in conjunction with situational awareness too.
  • Escape. This is definitely similar to situational avoidance, but whereas avoidance is working towards not getting into a situation in the first place, escape is the act of running away from whatever negative scenario you’ve found yourself in. Maintain situational awareness while escaping.
  • Fight. Fighting is your last resort. If you have to fight, chances are shit has really hit the fan, and now you need to do whatever is necessary to get the fuck out of there. Eyes, ears, nose, throat, groin, fingers — it’s all fair game. Maintaining situational awareness should, once again, still be maintained, but it gets increasingly harder the more your adrenaline pumps because you’ll get tunnel vision.

A really good practical thing people can take regularly is crisis management classes. Almost all conflicts begin from some type of crisis. Understanding the steps of a crisis or potential crisis and how to deal with them is SUPER important.

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Curious on your thoughts regarding the “3) pepper spray/mace” mentality. I’ve been big on “if you don’t train with it, you won’t use it”, and is what I bring up to people that wanna use “fight enders” like eye gouges, ear rips and small joint manipulations, especially given those require the use of fine motor skills on small/precise areas.

One of my big fears is producing a weapon only to have it used on me. To quote Bas Rutten “Never escalate the level of violence of a fight you are currently losing”

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The idea is that it might but me more time to run and call the police

Or less if it fails and you get sprayed with your own weapon.

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This is pretty much my stance on OC spray too. Visualization exercises can help (running through scenarios over and over to build reflex), but that’ll only get you so far. I would, in almost all scenarios, just have someone run away. Again, following the continuum I outlined above, if you’re close enough to need spray, you’re close enough to fight, and in that case clawing someone in the face is WAY faster than fumbling for spray in your purse. You just need to create a momentary gap of time through distraction to get away.

I don’t advocate for weapon use in self-defence for this EXACT reason — and this is coming from someone with weapons training. I don’t carry a knife (aside from my multitool), because I know I’m way better off with my hands. Hell, I don’t even use my cuffs at work because I only have a handful of hours of practice with them, but I have THOUSANDS of hours of restraint practice from my martial arts training. The last thing I want to do is accidentally fuck up with a blade or other tool and give my opponent and advantage.

The only person I’ve met who I could say would be good to carry a blade effectively was my silat instructor. That motherfucker was so fucking scary with a knife. Again though, he’s pulling a knife as a last resort, which is also my shared opinion; if I’m pulling a knife in a fight, there’s no going back and I’m trying to kill you. Period. I don’t want to EVER have that option.

There’s probably more I could say, but like I’ve said, I suck at written word. Bottom line: my opinion is to skip carrying weapons or defensive tools, and instead stick with your God-given ones: teeth and fists.

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In the case that Im in a bad situation, can’t run fast enough and can’t get free and run, I guess can at least try and give an attacker a nasty infection

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Biting works, and it fucking hurts. My supervisor got bitten during an arrest and immediately let go of the guy. It’s such an instinctual reaction to being bitten.

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Most of the time, even with a streamer spray vs a burst you’re going to get a little taste anyway.
Really opens up the lungs

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The OC I bought my wife is small and has a strap that allows her to carry it in her fist like a roll of quarters. It’s something that should be held in the ready position if you think you might need it. She takes it on runs occasionally. The stuff works well on dogs, too.

Aaaand that’s why I don’t carry my OC. I do not tolerate it well. I don’t even want to transport someone who has been hosed.

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Well, I filmed this great video explaining my reasoning behind boxing and wrestling/judo as good starting points for beginner martial artists, and it’s too big to upload on Vimeo.

I’ll try to summarize the points below:

There are three types of “hobbyists”. The first is people who just want to train martial arts for fun and/or fitness, and aren’t particularly interested in progressing a skill. In that case, train whatever you want. I’d suggest whatever’s cheapest and closest to you.

The second are people interested in a particular style, possibly for competing. In that case, you obviously want to train whatever specific style you have in mind.

The third — and the ones I’ll be addressing — are those who want to start martial arts but don’t know where to begin. They have and interest in progressing and improving, and are usually mindful of self-defence.

Boxing is a great starting point because all you have to worry about is your hands. The absolute basics are the jab, cross, hook and uppercut, which can be taught on the first day, and from there your progression becomes stringing them together, footwork, reading your opponent, and defence/blocking.

Wrestling and judo are great as a starting point for beginners for grappling because you’re only concerned with standing on your own two feet, and if you do hit the ground, concerned with maintaining the top position. If I was teaching a beginner, I’d worry about grip stripping, falling and rolling properly (HUGELY important for ANYONE to know) and one or two throws/takedowns that we’d drill from a multitude of scenarios so they can be pulled off as frequently as possible.

Progression for beginners — and anyone, for that matter — isn’t teaching them more and more stuff, progression is the advancement of skill and ability. In my teaching experience, students feel like they’re progressing more when they’re able to properly execute fewer techniques with greater efficiency. Once that base has been established and competency is there, you slowly add in more and more skills.

BJJ, on the other hand, has a lot more to worry about from the get go. The four main positions I’d want a beginner to know are front mount, back mount, side mount, and guard. You’re initially going to need to know how to maintain those positions. You’d also need to know how to escape those positions. Then, to keep things interesting, you’re going to need to know at least one submission from each position, and THEN know defence for those submissions (if you know how to defend a submission, you’ll better understand what flaws to be aware of when applying that submission). That’s 16 techniques, right off the bat, I’d want a beginner to know.

Like I said, progression isn’t the accumulation of a bunch of techniques, it’s the improvement on what you already know. Trying to simultaneously improve on 16 techniques versus 1 or 2 throws and grip stripping is going to take waaaaay longer and can lead to student frustration. You might say, “Well just teach them one position at a time!” Sure, I could do that, and usually do, eg: one class spent just on everything to do with the front mount (drills, scenarios, etc), then side mount the next, etc etc. However, it then becomes a long time before we come back around to those previous skills. Or, if we train them simultaneously, they improve much slower. There’s no real way to progress quickly, aside from dedicating a big chunk of time to it.

One reason that judoka say BJJ is easy to pick up on is because they already have a “martial arts mind” because of their previous experience. It was the same thing with me moving from hapkido to BJJ; since hapkido is built from Japanese ju-jitsu, and BJJ is from judo which is from Japanese JJ, it was intuitive to pick up on. For someone with NO grappling background, the concepts are going to take longer to ingrain, especially when there’s so much of it.

Lastly, for self-defence purposes, I do NOT want someone hanging out on the ground. There’s too many things that can go wrong (less mobile, harder to keep track of surroundings, potential for injury due to environment, etc). Wrestling and judo are great for teaching people to grind like hell for that top dominant position, which is will lend itself to greater safety when dealing with a threat.

All that to say, I love BJJ. It’s a fantastic art, and an amazing compliment to judo or wrestling. I just believe there’s less for a beginner to pick up on with a standing art at first, letting them build a base, before transitioning into something else.

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Listen @kdjohn mate

You could turn Aqua Aerobics into a martial art and it would still be as manly as fuck.

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Thanks for sharing this info. I would like to get my kids involved in something someday and due to the popularity of BJJ, I had planned on going that route. I also know a quality coach who runs a gym here so I’d be partial to him compared to a stranger.

You almost make boxing sound like it can be learned at home… I also have a friend and co-worker who fought professionally. That just means he accepted money, but he’s stepped in the ring eight or nine times and never lost so I’d say that makes him qualified. I’ve heard him tell people to work on the heavy bag and just work their stuff which aligns with what you said about learning the punches and then practicing them.

And for videos, I use YouTube. When you upload them, you can select the audience. I choose “Unlisted” which means anyone who has a link can find them and view them. You just have to copy and paste the link here and it works.

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This is big. Comfort with the instructors should absolutely be taken into consideration. Ask him how much of their curriculum involves stand-up work. Especially with kids (as I’ve told @T3hPwnisher) stand-up training is very important for building a solid base and balance (“base” as in the ability to be rooted and secure on your feet). Another reason I vouch for wrestling/judo.

I mean, in theory, yes. The basics can be learned at home. The application of them cannot be learned without a partner, though. The heavy bag is intended to build power, while pad work builds skill (hand-eye coordination, tracking, speed, etc). Without sparring practice as well, you’re only going to get so far.

I’ll have to give YouTube another shot. I tried before, and despite having a Google account it was giving me all these errors and not letting me upload.

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Had to swing by @kdjohn my mucker and pay respects for pointing me in the direction of those wide grip upright rows.

They are blowing my delts and traps into next week :muscle:t2:

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Yeeeah buddy! They’re such a great exercise. Glad they’re working out for you.

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21/04/2021

Start time: 2100
Outside temp: 1C

Running

  • 5km, approx 00:24:08???

Walking lunges

  • 25 reps/leg

Single leg calf raises

  • 2x15/side @ BW

Tibialis raises

  • 2x15 @ 15

Notes:

  • The question marks are because I have no idea what my actual time was. This run was just a disaster from the get-go. First, as I was rounding the first corner, I stepped on a loose rock which rolled my foot. Had to walk that off for a bit. Then, as I went onto the main stretch of road I run on, I got BLASTED by wind that I couldn’t feel while on the neighbourhood crescents. It wasn’t that cold out so I didn’t bother with a touque, but this wind made me regret that. To add to the fun, I stepped over more loose gravel, which kicked it up into my shoes, and one piece was so sharp it fucking cut my foot. So I had to stop and undo my shoe and empty all the gravel shards out. Finally, as I rounded the last corner, I heard this deep barking and out of the corner of my eye could see this HUGE dog sprinting at my dog and I. So I stopped and reassured my dog (who’s unbelievably well-behaved anyways) and we just stood and ignored this rude monster as he inspected my dog, until his owner caught up with him and managed to wrangle him.
  • Side note to brag about my dog (the younger one I run with): if this had happened with my older dog, it would’ve been a blood bath. He does NOT tolerate rude dogs at all (charging to say hello, getting in his personal space, aggressively sniffing his junk, etc). My younger dog? Perfect. He just casually acknowledges their existence, then ignores them while standing his ground. He’s also really good at checking in with me or my wife to gauge how we feel about strange dogs. If we’re unbothered, so is he.

Older one is on the left, younger one is on the right. This was from last month. He’s wearing his skijoring harness after pulling my kid in his sled.

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Where in Canada are you?