Karate Girl vs Gym Rat Guy

Training
41

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
IMHO No she would lose. Look at most female cops fighting criminals if they are alone and the guy has no hiccups about fighting a cop criminal generally wins. I can’t see 6’3 benching 270 max is all that buff though.[/quote]
true. The disparity was already very big lol. [/quote]

You know why they lose? I have trained many female cop, and I can tell you , once they leave me, they at least, have a basic structure to kill someone, but, the fucking rules and regulations, internal affairs units, and media feasting, all serve to cut the balls from a straight forward attack. She is not allowed to blow the bastards brains out , stab him in the fucking throat, or run Bic pen through his fucking eye…You try to fight a motherfucker on the street with “rules”…Fucking joke and a crime in itself… [/quote]
that is fucked up. Would she win if both sides were unarmed?

42

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
IMHO No she would lose. Look at most female cops fighting criminals if they are alone and the guy has no hiccups about fighting a cop criminal generally wins. I can’t see 6’3 benching 270 max is all that buff though.[/quote]
true. The disparity was already very big lol. [/quote]

You know why they lose? I have trained many female cop, and I can tell you , once they leave me, they at least, have a basic structure to kill someone, but, the fucking rules and regulations, internal affairs units, and media feasting, all serve to cut the balls from a straight forward attack. She is not allowed to blow the bastards brains out , stab him in the fucking throat, or run Bic pen through his fucking eye…You try to fight a motherfucker on the street with “rules”…Fucking joke and a crime in itself… [/quote]
that is fucked up. Would she win if both sides were unarmed?[/quote]

With all due respect to your inquiry: The harsh realities of training someone to survive a combat situation,( miltary combat, SWAT, Street Survival) forces you to always view situations and training from a PRACTICAL stanpoint and not a THEORETICAL issue. You either kill your attacker or the attacker kills you. simple, but, true.

As far as practical: nothing is more dishonest and criminal than for some “instructor” to stand before a class and state " this technique, will put him down every time" Bullshit. Nothing works all the time but 'Cranial Vault Displacement" which is blowing the attackers brains out. Regular members of this forum have already given you excellent answers on the multiple factors invovled in surviving a lethal encounter.

" who would win , if both were unarmed?" is a theoretical question. When training for reality, rely on the practical.

43

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
IMHO No she would lose. Look at most female cops fighting criminals if they are alone and the guy has no hiccups about fighting a cop criminal generally wins. I can’t see 6’3 benching 270 max is all that buff though.[/quote]
true. The disparity was already very big lol. [/quote]

You know why they lose? I have trained many female cop, and I can tell you , once they leave me, they at least, have a basic structure to kill someone, but, the fucking rules and regulations, internal affairs units, and media feasting, all serve to cut the balls from a straight forward attack. She is not allowed to blow the bastards brains out , stab him in the fucking throat, or run Bic pen through his fucking eye…You try to fight a motherfucker on the street with “rules”…Fucking joke and a crime in itself… [/quote]
that is fucked up. Would she win if both sides were unarmed?[/quote]

With all due respect to your inquiry: The harsh realities of training someone to survive a combat situation,( miltary combat, SWAT, Street Survival) forces you to always view situations and training from a PRACTICAL stanpoint and not a THEORETICAL issue. You either kill your attacker or the attacker kills you. simple, but, true.

As far as practical: nothing is more dishonest and criminal than for some “instructor” to stand before a class and state " this technique, will put him down every time" Bullshit. Nothing works all the time but 'Cranial Vault Displacement" which is blowing the attackers brains out. Regular members of this forum have already given you excellent answers on the multiple factors invovled in surviving a lethal encounter.

" who would win , if both were unarmed?" is a theoretical question. When training for reality, rely on the practical.
[/quote]
I agree posters have given me excellent answers. with the question to you I was trying to figure what kind of physical skills these cops had. I see now it is irrelevant because they mostly have specific tactics different from unarmed fighting. thanks.

44

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
IMHO No she would lose. Look at most female cops fighting criminals if they are alone and the guy has no hiccups about fighting a cop criminal generally wins. I can’t see 6’3 benching 270 max is all that buff though.[/quote]
true. The disparity was already very big lol. [/quote]

You know why they lose? I have trained many female cop, and I can tell you , once they leave me, they at least, have a basic structure to kill someone, but, the fucking rules and regulations, internal affairs units, and media feasting, all serve to cut the balls from a straight forward attack. She is not allowed to blow the bastards brains out , stab him in the fucking throat, or run Bic pen through his fucking eye…You try to fight a motherfucker on the street with “rules”…Fucking joke and a crime in itself… [/quote]
that is fucked up. Would she win if both sides were unarmed?[/quote]

With all due respect to your inquiry: The harsh realities of training someone to survive a combat situation,( miltary combat, SWAT, Street Survival) forces you to always view situations and training from a PRACTICAL stanpoint and not a THEORETICAL issue. You either kill your attacker or the attacker kills you. simple, but, true.

As far as practical: nothing is more dishonest and criminal than for some “instructor” to stand before a class and state " this technique, will put him down every time" Bullshit. Nothing works all the time but 'Cranial Vault Displacement" which is blowing the attackers brains out. Regular members of this forum have already given you excellent answers on the multiple factors invovled in surviving a lethal encounter.

" who would win , if both were unarmed?" is a theoretical question. When training for reality, rely on the practical.
[/quote]
I agree posters have given me excellent answers. with the question to you I was trying to figure what kind of physical skills these cops had. I see now it is irrelevant because they mostly have specific tactics different from unarmed fighting. thanks.

[/quote]

The tactics they use for “empty hand control or control compliance” are derived from a mixture of BJJ, Hapkido, Aikido, etc… they are trained for “unarmed fighting”, but,the problem becomes, when you are a working LEO,(United States) you have to follow “rules and regulations” on when you can escalate to a more violent level on a PHYSICAL confortation.

But, having said that: I have been out of the U.S civilian LEO world for 5 years, I only train third country military and police units now, so, my knowledage on the civilian side is dated.

45

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
IMHO No she would lose. Look at most female cops fighting criminals if they are alone and the guy has no hiccups about fighting a cop criminal generally wins. I can’t see 6’3 benching 270 max is all that buff though.[/quote]
true. The disparity was already very big lol. [/quote]

You know why they lose? I have trained many female cop, and I can tell you , once they leave me, they at least, have a basic structure to kill someone, but, the fucking rules and regulations, internal affairs units, and media feasting, all serve to cut the balls from a straight forward attack. She is not allowed to blow the bastards brains out , stab him in the fucking throat, or run Bic pen through his fucking eye…You try to fight a motherfucker on the street with “rules”…Fucking joke and a crime in itself… [/quote]

Exactly. If one combatant (regardless of size, sex, or fighting skill) has major limitations in their willingness to utilize escalating levels of force as needed, then they are at a disadvantage in a real fight for survival. Heck, you take the very best sport fighter in the world (whatever discipline you prefer) and put them up against a cold blooded hardened criminal in a real fight and if that sport fighter has even one iota of hesitation in terms of utilizing any means necessary to take the criminal out immediately they are going to the hospital or even the morgue, especially if the criminal is armed and they are not.

46

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
IMHO No she would lose. Look at most female cops fighting criminals if they are alone and the guy has no hiccups about fighting a cop criminal generally wins. I can’t see 6’3 benching 270 max is all that buff though.[/quote]
true. The disparity was already very big lol. [/quote]

You know why they lose? I have trained many female cop, and I can tell you , once they leave me, they at least, have a basic structure to kill someone, but, the fucking rules and regulations, internal affairs units, and media feasting, all serve to cut the balls from a straight forward attack. She is not allowed to blow the bastards brains out , stab him in the fucking throat, or run Bic pen through his fucking eye…You try to fight a motherfucker on the street with “rules”…Fucking joke and a crime in itself… [/quote]
that is fucked up. Would she win if both sides were unarmed?[/quote]

With all due respect to your inquiry: The harsh realities of training someone to survive a combat situation,( miltary combat, SWAT, Street Survival) forces you to always view situations and training from a PRACTICAL stanpoint and not a THEORETICAL issue. You either kill your attacker or the attacker kills you. simple, but, true.

As far as practical: nothing is more dishonest and criminal than for some “instructor” to stand before a class and state " this technique, will put him down every time" Bullshit. Nothing works all the time but 'Cranial Vault Displacement" which is blowing the attackers brains out. Regular members of this forum have already given you excellent answers on the multiple factors invovled in surviving a lethal encounter.

" who would win , if both were unarmed?" is a theoretical question. When training for reality, rely on the practical.
[/quote]

Another great post Idaho.

We have a policy when training that one should “Never teach your students to die in training”. As long as you are still aware that you are injured or maimed you can still continue to fight back. Likewise one should avoid the tendency of teaching their students exactly how any given technique is going to neutralize an attacker/enemy combatant. You never truly know how someone is going to be effected by any given technique or attack, and if they happen to not be effected the way you have been taught it is likely to spell bad news for you (since you may have bet all your chips on that technique doing the job for you).

Instead you should teach effective techniques and tactics, but teach your students to keep fighting until the threat is truly neutralized, whatever it takes to get them there is not as important as that you get them there.

47

I would like to add to the point Idaho made, cops also have a lot of stuff on their belts they have to protect in a fight. It is like fighting with one hand. The other is used to secure the weapon in the holster. So primary concern for me, secure the weapon, then try to fight staying inside the rules of engagement. My first fight as a cop I worried and thought about everything I could not do as a cop. This is using a popular style of arrest control that has a focus of not getting the agency sued. It is quite popular with admin types. Second fight I got past that and it ended more quickly. Way off point for original post, However like Idaho said it is not a level playing field.

To the original post, as a doorman I dealt with scrappy females and would not discount possibility of a win for them. A woman with some training may indeed have an advantage. She will not telegraph her shots, can focus on weakness, and has probably taken a hit ot two so she might know how to stay light on her feet to lessen the effect of the strike. This is all just theory. I still am a believer in the old adage of " the bigger they are the harder they can hit".

48

Side note and possible derail but what has caused being a black belt to lose such a tremendous amount of the meaning that it once held? My little cousin is going for his black belt and he is like 12 or 13. I knew a guy in school that he was a black belt since 9 and would tell people as such before one guy decide to football tackle him and beat the crap out of him while he was running his mouth.

It just seems like belts now are given out just to keep parents happy because there kid is progressing. I always thought the pursuit of a black belt was supposed to take years and mean that you had spent a tremendous amount of time perfecting your self.

I also think that people underestimate the effect experience with fighting has on a fight. I think if you have one of these “participation” black belts that has never actually been in a fight against a bigger just strong mofo that regularly brawls just because, black belt guy is in trouble. At least that has been my personal experience. The phrase “Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth” really does hold true.

49

There is only one true way to get this answer and that is to submit this scenario to the Deadliest Warrior.

50

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Typhoon wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:
The guy is 6 foot 3 and bench press 270 weights 215
girl is 5 foot 3 150 pounds
dojo is not full contact [/quote]

She sounds like a round little thing with a big juicy ass. Do you have any pictures or a phone number? More importantly does she have a restraining order against you or anyone associated with you?[/quote]
lol I do like thick shortys with a booty. I promise thus thread is not personal or biased. I just have my uneducated opinion. Maybe I should rephrase the question. Can the average black belt girl defeat a buff guy who is bigger than her?[/quote]

Facepalm
[/quote]
lol. So who wins?[/quote]

If she has children and you are a threat to them I’ll put my money on her getting in your ass like a Klingon in heat.

51

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Side note and possible derail but what has caused being a black belt to lose such a tremendous amount of the meaning that it once held? My little cousin is going for his black belt and he is like 12 or 13. I knew a guy in school that he was a black belt since 9 and would tell people as such before one guy decide to football tackle him and beat the crap out of him while he was running his mouth.

It just seems like belts now are given out just to keep parents happy because there kid is progressing. I always thought the pursuit of a black belt was supposed to take years and mean that you had spent a tremendous amount of time perfecting your self.

I also think that people underestimate the effect experience with fighting has on a fight. I think if you have one of these “participation” black belts that has never actually been in a fight against a bigger just strong mofo that regularly brawls just because, black belt guy is in trouble. At least that has been my personal experience. The phrase “Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth” really does hold true.[/quote]

The short answer to your question is that Martial Arts has become a business in the US (for the civilian population anyhow, and even the Military/LEO population to a lesser degree). As such some schools (and even entire systems/organizations) have realized that they can make more money and have more students if they hurry people through the ranks and never make any of their students uncomfortable (sparring, hard conditioning, exposure to the elements, etc…).

As a result you get a bunch of “black belts” with inflated senses of self worth, accomplishment, and fighting prowess walking around. It’s a sad state of affairs IMO, but as long as the general public remains ignorant about these business practices and these school owners/organizations continue to make money hand over fist, I don’t expect the situation to change any time soon.

52

[quote]Kirks wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Sounds to me like you have already made up your mind about who is going to win and are setting up the circumstances to match the outcome you want to hear us say. What is the point of this thread?[/quote]
I ask so I can learn the effectiveness of the average dojo training. as well as how tough a trained woman is compred to a body building man. im not just being a douche [/quote]

Got someone in mind to rape this weekend?

Cos that’s what it sounds like.[/quote]

There was a time when martial artists didn’t share their knowledge with just anyone. They did this because they felt they had a responsibility as to how their knowledge was used. So they would want to meet a potential student in person and have a chance to assess their character so they were aiding and abetting criminals. Those days are long gone.

53

This question is impossible to answer in an informed way based on the info given. Yes size can negate a deficit in technique. Yes technique can overcome a deficit in size. I cannot fathom what an “average” “karate” black belt has for technique, training, or mind set. I haven’t done the research to know what the actual “average” level of skill is.

Without knowing a hell of a lot about the two people, I am sort of guessing the OP is one of them, we are all just guessing. In other threads most/all of us try to predict who is going to win in controlled, organized, matches (boxing, MMA, kickboxing) between known opponents whom we have seen fight before. I tend to guess wrong a bunch, so does everyone else. And these are contests with far few unknowns and about eleventy hundred fewer variables.

Others have already pointed out that the scenario is going to have a hell of a lot to do with it in addition to the participants. I just really do not understand what you were hoping to get here.

Having said all that, here is the answer you need.

Buy her a drink and tell her she looks pretty. If you cannot say pretty and mean it, say she looks good in _____ and ID the least offensive thing she is wearing.

Who gives a damn if she says she can beat you up. She might have been flirting. She might be challenging you in a friendly way. Buy her a drink. Compliment her. Tell a fucking joke. Who can beat up who only matters if violence or the threat of violence is a necessary tool to achieve a goal. So, unless you need her scared of you or injured this doesn’t matter.

[b]Buy Drink.

Compliment.

Tell Joke.[/b]

Regards,

Robert A

54

I am very surprised that this thread lasted 3 pages.

55

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Side note and possible derail but what has caused being a black belt to lose such a tremendous amount of the meaning that it once held? My little cousin is going for his black belt and he is like 12 or 13. I knew a guy in school that he was a black belt since 9 and would tell people as such before one guy decide to football tackle him and beat the crap out of him while he was running his mouth.

It just seems like belts now are given out just to keep parents happy because there kid is progressing. I always thought the pursuit of a black belt was supposed to take years and mean that you had spent a tremendous amount of time perfecting your self.

I also think that people underestimate the effect experience with fighting has on a fight. I think if you have one of these “participation” black belts that has never actually been in a fight against a bigger just strong mofo that regularly brawls just because, black belt guy is in trouble. At least that has been my personal experience. The phrase “Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth” really does hold true.[/quote]

The short answer to your question is that Martial Arts has become a business in the US (for the civilian population anyhow, and even the Military/LEO population to a lesser degree). As such some schools (and even entire systems/organizations) have realized that they can make more money and have more students if they hurry people through the ranks and never make any of their students uncomfortable (sparring, hard conditioning, exposure to the elements, etc…).

As a result you get a bunch of “black belts” with inflated senses of self worth, accomplishment, and fighting prowess walking around. It’s a sad state of affairs IMO, but as long as the general public remains ignorant about these business practices and these school owners/organizations continue to make money hand over fist, I don’t expect the situation to change any time soon.[/quote]

That’s kind of sad as it seems to cheapen the accomplishment that “black belt” should have associated with it. But undoubtedly a lot of people realize this if a 12 year old can accomplish it then it really isn’t that special anymore.

56

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I am very surprised that this thread lasted 3 pages. [/quote]
I have asked a pretty dumb question. but I am grateful that some experienced and trained posters have taken the time to educate me. I guess this thread could be informative to karate practitioners with a big egos as will as strong guys who throw their weight around. I don’t have much else to add. thanks all

57

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Side note and possible derail but what has caused being a black belt to lose such a tremendous amount of the meaning that it once held? My little cousin is going for his black belt and he is like 12 or 13. I knew a guy in school that he was a black belt since 9 and would tell people as such before one guy decide to football tackle him and beat the crap out of him while he was running his mouth.

It just seems like belts now are given out just to keep parents happy because there kid is progressing. I always thought the pursuit of a black belt was supposed to take years and mean that you had spent a tremendous amount of time perfecting your self.

I also think that people underestimate the effect experience with fighting has on a fight. I think if you have one of these “participation” black belts that has never actually been in a fight against a bigger just strong mofo that regularly brawls just because, black belt guy is in trouble. At least that has been my personal experience. The phrase “Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth” really does hold true.[/quote]

The short answer to your question is that Martial Arts has become a business in the US (for the civilian population anyhow, and even the Military/LEO population to a lesser degree). As such some schools (and even entire systems/organizations) have realized that they can make more money and have more students if they hurry people through the ranks and never make any of their students uncomfortable (sparring, hard conditioning, exposure to the elements, etc…).

As a result you get a bunch of “black belts” with inflated senses of self worth, accomplishment, and fighting prowess walking around. It’s a sad state of affairs IMO, but as long as the general public remains ignorant about these business practices and these school owners/organizations continue to make money hand over fist, I don’t expect the situation to change any time soon.[/quote]

Agreed. And it is a shame, because true black belts can be pretty dangerous people.

58

IDK maybe she just decides its not worth the trouble and drops to her knees and tops him off and everyone lives happily ever after

59

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:
Can the the average karate black belt girl defeat a buff guy who is bigger than her?
I ask so I can learn the effectiveness of the average dojo training. as well as how tough a trained woman is compared to a body building man. im not just being a douche[/quote]

In my experience, the chances the girl has are next to none. A taller, biger and probably triple her strength? No way she can do anything.

60

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Kirks wrote:

[quote]CircaThursday wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Sounds to me like you have already made up your mind about who is going to win and are setting up the circumstances to match the outcome you want to hear us say. What is the point of this thread?[/quote]
I ask so I can learn the effectiveness of the average dojo training. as well as how tough a trained woman is compred to a body building man. im not just being a douche [/quote]

Got someone in mind to rape this weekend?

Cos that’s what it sounds like.[/quote]
no. hell no. what guy has not wondered if a karate girl could whip his ass. [/quote]
Chuck Norris.