Just Saw Fahrenheit 9/11

I just got back from watching the movie. It’s going to take some time for everything to digest. I did really enjoy the film. One thing it will do. It will get everyone who watches it to think and discuss.

For me there was really no new information that we haven’t talked about in here to the Nth degree. We are definitely members of an “informed public” in here, whether leaning to the right or left. What was great about the movie was the presentation. The music, editing, and story-telling style of Moore really lays out a pretty strong case for his point of view.

It definitely adds an emotional element that I think we in here attempt to stay above. (I know that we get passionate, but we still all seem to keep it somewhat at bay to make our cases as rationally as possible). There were a couple of places in there where I was so emotional that I thought I was going to choke up. One was a woman whose family had a long and honorable association with the military. She got a letter from her son in Iraq stating how horribly this war was being executed, and claimed that he would vote to “remove that idiot from office” when he got back. A week later he was killed in a Blackhawk that got shot down. She was obviously pretty emotional about it… It was pretty hard to watch.

One of the other scenes that really got me was the an elderly lady in Iraq who lost 5 members of her family in a “precision bombing” airstrike, as well as losing her home. Her grief really hit me. She was crying so hard, wondering why god could allow such a thing to happen to her. I don’t want to spoil it anymore, but suffice it to say, it was just as hard to watch as the American woman who lost her son.

He tactfully resisted putting any direct footage of the towers and the planes crashing. He opted instead to focus on the people’s faces who watch in horror as it happened. People crying, praying, screaming, running. In some ways I think he was able to make his point even more strongly by not including what I thought would have been obvious… footage of the event from his title.

It is pretty painful to watch the president for the seven minutes he sat in that class after he learned of the attack. I have to wonder what he was going through his head. Moore had a few humerous moments with this concept that got a good laugh from the audience. I am curious why he didn’t get up right away. I would have thought that the president of the US, upon learning that we were under attack on our own soil, would have jumped out of his chair and started barking important orders.

Moore showed several clips of both Cheney and Bush making the claim that Iraq had something directly to do with the attack of 911 (something which they have denied recently), which pretty much squashes the arguments a few of you have made about “finding one instance” where they have tried to directly link Saddam with the attack.

All in all a good film. A lot more subdued than his previous films. Moore’s roll, as reviewers said, was a lot smaller in this film, letting the footage itself tell the story. One thing that shocked me. I thought I would come to the 11am show to avoid the evening crowds at the theater, although I didn’t expect the evening crowd to be there for a documentary. I had a VERY long line to wait in, and as it turns out, they were all going to F911. Not only that, they put it in one of the really big auditoriums (seats over 400) and it was absolutely PACKED. At the end it received a rousing applause, whoops, whistles, and screams. I have never seen a film get a standing ovation that lasted through a portion of the credits in a THEATER! I have a feeling that the Bush people are going to be really busy doing damage control over this for a while, now that it is finally out. This is a film that they are going to wish would go away but probably won’t.

I would love to hear from others who saw it and what they thought of it.

“It is pretty painful to watch the president for the seven minutes he sat in that class after he learned of the attack. I have to wonder what he was going through his head.”

Interested in what someone who was in the classroom that day has to say? Someone who didn’t vote for Bush.

Sarasota principal defends Bush from “Fahrenheit 9/11” portrayal

By Associated Press
June 24, 2004

SARASOTA ? Michael Moore’s film “Fahrenheit 9/11” criticizes President Bush for listening to Sarasota second-graders read a story for nearly seven minutes after learning the nation was under attack on Sept. 11, 2001.

But Gwendolyn Tose’-Rigell, the principal at Emma E. Booker Elementary School, says Bush handled himself properly.

“I don’t think anyone could have handled it better,” Tose’-Rigell told the Sarasota Herald-Tribune in a story published Wednesday. “What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?”

“Fahrenheit 9/11,” which won the top honor at last month’s Cannes Film Festival, portrays the White House as asleep at the wheel before the Sept. 11 attacks. Moore accuses Bush of fanning fears of future terrorism to win public support for the Iraq war.

Bush told the federal 9/11 Commission, which released its report last week, that he remained in the classroom because he felt it was “important to project strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening.” Moore says Bush failed to take charge.

Tose’-Rigell, who was at Bush’s side, did not hear what White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card whispered when he squeezed past her to tell the president of the attacks, but “I knew it was something serious.”

“The president bit his lip and clenched his jaw,” she said. “I didn’t know what happened, whether it was something with his wife or children or something with the nation. I remember praying that God would watch over our school and protect our children.”

She said the video doesn’t convey all that was going on in the classroom, but Bush’s presence had a calming effect and “helped us get through a very difficult day.”

Tose’-Rigell said she plans to publish her account of the morning of Sept. 11 from pages she wrote in her journal following the attack. The principal said she didn’t vote for Bush. “But that day I would have voted for him.”

i haven’t watched the movie, but i don’t want to watch it because i know that it will be ridiculously biased. It’s obvious that Moore is anti-war and anti-Bush, and he’s probably showing ONLY the stuff that he needs to persuade the audience that Bush is bad.

I highly doubt there was anything in the movie showing the good things Bush has done, or the reasons why Bush had to do some things. It’s pretty hard being the President of the most powerful nation in the world, and I don’t know if anyone could have handled it better than he did.

What sucks about this world is that most people aren’t educated and they just look at what the media tells them. No one really looks behind the scenes. I mean, if you were President, what would you do if you had strong evidence from your top advisors saying that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Remember this is after 9/11; the US is feeling very patriotic, and the terrorists were Middle-Eastern.

I bet finishing his father’s legacy was part of the reason for going into war, and I bet getting oil was also part of it. But wouldn’t you attack when you had the perfect chance, and there was a possibility of your country getting attacked? Bush really had no choice. Because he attacked, people got mad and protested. Think of what would have happened if Bush had not done anything, and we were attacked. The US would be in turmoil.

Sure, Bush has done some stupid things, but you gotta admit that he’s done some good things. And remember, no one’s perfect, not even the President of the United States.

I could probably talk about this for hours, but I’m gonna stop because this topic’s about the movie…not about politics. But i want to end with one thing:

Support Bush, even if you hate him. You can vote for Kerry if you believe he’s the better candidate for President, but support Bush while he’s in office. He IS your President. I try my best to not be affiliated with any party, but I tend to have more conservative views. With that said, had Gore won in 2000, I would have still given him all my support because he’s my leader.

Here’s an example that some may be able to relate to:

I’m sometimes very rebellious, and I fight and argue with my parents all the time. But even though we disagree on alot of things, we still love each other because we’re a family.

I think it shows what we all suspect. Cheney really is pulling the strings in this country. “W” is a figurehead. He’s got his aw-shucks cowboy charisma that plays with huge portion of the country.

It was Cheney giving the orders during the attacks, not W. or even Rumsfeld. It was Cheney who was in hiding for a long time post 9-11.

Cheney and his cronies run the country. Bush gets to deliver the “smoke 'em out” soundbites and then vacation in Crawford, Texas and play golf with his old man.

don’t hate on texas >:O

i doubt Bush does all the work, but i know that he’s not laid back like you’re saying he is.

and cheney’s too busy fixing his heart to worry about diplomatic/political issues

[quote]jo3 wrote:
i haven’t watched the movie, but i don’t want to watch it because i know that it will be ridiculously biased. It’s obvious that Moore is anti-war and anti-Bush, and he’s probably showing ONLY the stuff that he needs to persuade the audience that Bush is bad.

I highly doubt there was anything in the movie showing the good things Bush has done, or the reasons why Bush had to do some things. It’s pretty hard being the President of the most powerful nation in the world, and I don’t know if anyone could have handled it better than he did.

[/quote]

Moore himself doesn’t argue with this. The film is meant to depict his opinion and point of view, which, he says, he is very confident in. It’s not meant to be a scholarly piece of work. That doesn’t mean it lacks all merit, does it?

BTW, good luck to the prinicipal and her book. “God Bless” her.

[quote]Right Side Up wrote:

Moore himself doesn’t argue with this. The film is meant to depict his opinion and point of view, which, he says, he is very confident in. It’s not meant to be a scholarly piece of work. That doesn’t mean it lacks all merit, does it?

[/quote]

Yes, it does.

Opinions lack merit? If that were true we wouldn’t have film critics, Zagat guides, rating systems for forum posts…

We (my girlfreind and I) saw the film yesterday, as it was the first day it opened in our city. Considering all the malice directed toward Moore, I expected the theater to pretty much be empty (just like it was for Supersize Me). Surprisingly, at the second showing that afternoon, the place was packed with a pretty broad spectrum of folks - which I guess is pretty insignificant, since lots of different people see lots of good and bad films.

The film itself was nothing if not engaging. For all the horrific and obscene images of war, there’s oddly enough portions of the movie that are just plain funny, which is odd even to write, considering the subject matter and title. It’s almost a bit unsettling.

As far as the politics of the movie, I guess the thing to remember is this, Moore is an activist and this is the medium he chooses to express himself. Personally, I have just as much trouble with the people who blindly swallow every casue and message he crusades as much as I do those who automatically deny its potential validity.

It seems however, that this social stratification, this need to absolutely fasten ourselves to one side of the spectrum or the other prevails for the most part over general contemplation and healthy debate (stupid two-party system…)

Anyway, it was really interesting to read thru some of the threads on this site regarding feelings toward Moore and his films. Half the posts, it seemed, wished him bodily harm and mocked his physical stature for simply expressing an opinion. Interesting…

Back to the flim. If you’re a devout Michael Moore fan, you’re sense of self-satisfaction and sticking-it-to-the-man will probably greatly be energized. If you’re one of those folks who despise his existence, then you’ll have plenty of new artillery to rant about.

Hopefully, the film will make anyone who sees it (regardless of personal disposition) think just a little bit more than if they had just spent their five bucks to see “White Chicks.” And that’s never a bad thing.

Damn, how many threads do we need on this movie? Please see my comments on the previous two threads.

Also, the comments on this thread by people claiming what this movie “proves” or “shows” buttress my opinion as to why this movie’s intellectual dishonesty makes it so bad.

I won’t see it either. Just not interested in watching what I already know he has to say. If you read MSNBC.com or the NY Times you already know what’s in the movie.

I also know from watching and reading stories about it that some of his accusations have already been discredited by the bi-partisan 9/11 commission.

I think Michael Moore is generally a nice guy. I’ve watched interviews that he has done. He’s very calm, relaxed and pretty funny. The problem I have with him is he is very liberal. He wants income redistribution (socialism) and other policies that I don’t agree with.

Now, I’m not a rich guy by any means, but if his policies were enforced, I would have no drive to make more money.

I saw it, and as a right wing republican, I found it biased and entertaining. It has not really changed my vote yet, but it has made me read the paper more often.

On a side note, the older people in the theater where shocked to see me and my 18 year old buddies at this movie.

The big question is: will it have an impact on the election? That’s what Moore hopes for and any documentary worth its salt should have the ability to change people’s minds.

And that’s where Moore falls short. I don’t think he made a film that will change people’s minds. Those who agree with Moore’s politics will be galvanized by the film, those who disagree with him will consider it more of his contrived propaganda.

The neutral observer, I think, won’t be moved much, and I think it’s because of Moore’s lack of credibility and willingness to take cheap shots. A sober investigation is one thing, a polemic that is patently designed to make someone look sinister for political gain is another.

I suspect the movie won’t have much impact on the election. But the country is narrowly divided and should Kerry win, no doubt Moore will break his arm patting himself on his ample back claiming to have engineered one of the greatest victories for the Left in American history.

Interesting to see Moore in a couple of interviews on CNN, NBC, etc. - when challenged by journalists on his contradictions, inconsistencies, and motives, Moore shuffles and blows smoke - exactly like the politicians he claims to despise for not telling the truth.

Oh well, I won’t be seeing it. A waste of money and time.

It’s pretty obivious that Moore doesn’t read this website. Looking at him, I’m not sure if he’s espousing Fahrenheit or “Super Size Me.” (And no, I didn’t vote for Bush… I did lick it though. :slight_smile: )

Please don’t consider the film a documentary, as the dictionary defines a documentary as:

Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

Here’s a good review of the movie:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/?GT1=3584

Why is everyone surpised that the movie theaters are packed? Every dripping, french-loving liberal out there is going to that movie and masterbate in glee over its anti-war/anti-Bush messages.

I saw it. I thought it sucked on many different levels.

It was biased, skewed to the left and lacked even a basic regard for factual representation.

I couldn’t help thinking of the movie “Triumph of the Will” it was a documentart that glorified Nazi Germany in 1936. This piece of shit movie was just as bad.

Seriously what is his point…that we would be better off under a Fundamentalist Islamic Regime? That our enemies would be?

Take this movie for what it is worth. It is a 2 hr. Anti-Bush Campaign ad. It doesn’t offer any new ideas it just tries to tear down our present leaders. I am sure it will do well based on some of the pathetic pieces of shit I saw in the theater.

God help us all. I don’t know if there is enough of us War Fighters left to protect all of them.

I’ll never donate my money to this fat ass’s cause.

again ptr… excellent display of christain values…

i saw the film… i did not buy into all the conclusions… but the facts that are presented are very disturbing

the main point was “this guy is questionable as a president” and there were lots of facts to support that main point.

Don’t need a movie to learn of the errors of man. I want to be entertained! Are you not entertained! lol…Spongebob Square Pants the Movie November!