Just An Observation

Training
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[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i like both those ideas…i’ll bring that up at work. especially the glass of water…simple, but most people will get confused. a dude i went to HS with kicked off his shoe into a guys’ face right before he punched him…KO’d him, put his shoe back on and left. same concept, though…

we had training at work the other day, and discussed how people will do goofy shit when adrenaline is flowing. one dude was taking a report from an assault victim, and had a pen and notepad in his hands. the suspect returned to the scene, and he ended up in a foot pursuit and had a stand-off situation. when he holstered his gun (and the suspect was in custody), he realized he was holding his pen and gun in the same hand, and notepad in the other hand (although he had no recollection of it). weird stuff…[/quote]

That is wild about the pen & notepad. Adrenaline is so powerful. I tend to start babbling the same thing repeatedly. The first time one of them slapped me as a precursor to a choke, I yelled repeatedly during the whole defense, “Goddamnit I’m going to fucking kill you! Goddamnit I’m going to fucking kill you!” I wasn’t saying it on purpose, it was just coming out of me…

The glass of water is really effective. It shot into my eyes & blinded me, but they were still attacking, so I had to fight. Another time it shot all up into a guy’s nose so he was coughing & couldn’t breathe while he defended.

I have a friend who will say something crazy to distract you when he pulls a weapon on you. So, the other night during gun defenses he pulled the weapon & at the same time in a normal voice asked the defender, “Do you fuck pigs?” The person was so focused on the strange question he messed up the defense.

[/quote]
Very interesting. Going to have to try the water in the face for sure.

I do lots of drills with stuff in my hands, both in combatives classes and at the range when doing scenarios. Notebook and pen, bags of groceries, gym bag, etc. and when the scenario starts having to drop what’s in my hands. Obviously hard to get the complete response, but I still think there is some value to it. Especially the grocery bags.

42

[quote]blackhand wrote:

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i like both those ideas…i’ll bring that up at work. especially the glass of water…simple, but most people will get confused. a dude i went to HS with kicked off his shoe into a guys’ face right before he punched him…KO’d him, put his shoe back on and left. same concept, though…

we had training at work the other day, and discussed how people will do goofy shit when adrenaline is flowing. one dude was taking a report from an assault victim, and had a pen and notepad in his hands. the suspect returned to the scene, and he ended up in a foot pursuit and had a stand-off situation. when he holstered his gun (and the suspect was in custody), he realized he was holding his pen and gun in the same hand, and notepad in the other hand (although he had no recollection of it). weird stuff…[/quote]

That is wild about the pen & notepad. Adrenaline is so powerful. I tend to start babbling the same thing repeatedly. The first time one of them slapped me as a precursor to a choke, I yelled repeatedly during the whole defense, “Goddamnit I’m going to fucking kill you! Goddamnit I’m going to fucking kill you!” I wasn’t saying it on purpose, it was just coming out of me…

The glass of water is really effective. It shot into my eyes & blinded me, but they were still attacking, so I had to fight. Another time it shot all up into a guy’s nose so he was coughing & couldn’t breathe while he defended.

I have a friend who will say something crazy to distract you when he pulls a weapon on you. So, the other night during gun defenses he pulled the weapon & at the same time in a normal voice asked the defender, “Do you fuck pigs?” The person was so focused on the strange question he messed up the defense.

[/quote]
Very interesting. Going to have to try the water in the face for sure.

I do lots of drills with stuff in my hands, both in combatives classes and at the range when doing scenarios. Notebook and pen, bags of groceries, gym bag, etc. and when the scenario starts having to drop what’s in my hands. Obviously hard to get the complete response, but I still think there is some value to it. Especially the grocery bags.[/quote]

I like this, particularly at the range, especially the notebook & pen, considering the reference of what happened to the cop in a previous post.

It’s my understanding that many people do target practice far more than they practice drawing the weapon, which is scary. I never thought about drawing while you’re encumbered. You might also add another element. Go to a dollar store & pick up some baby dolls. The trainee has to hold the baby properly the whole time, protecting the head from bouncing (which would kill or permanently damage a child). I happened to pick up some babies that say stuff when you squeeze them, which was fun. You could have a baby in one hand & a grocery bag in the other - especially a bag filled with toilet paper or paper towels, in case the trainee decides to strike the attacker with it or throw it in the attacker’s face. Interestingly, men tend to do much better than women at the baby doll drill. They generally hold the baby like a football, cradling the head, which is a very stable position.

43

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

It’s my understanding that many people do target practice far more than they practice drawing the weapon, which is scary. [/quote]

The only shooting I ever do is from the holster, hands in front at a neutral rest, and on a timer. I usually work in reloads too. Anything else is breeding bad habits for self defense. When I’m really feeling squirelly, I’ll have a partner call random “head” or “pelvic girdle” shots to account for obscured/armored targets.

44

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

It’s my understanding that many people do target practice far more than they practice drawing the weapon, which is scary. [/quote]

The only shooting I ever do is from the holster, hands in front at a neutral rest, and on a timer. I usually work in reloads too. Anything else is breeding bad habits for self defense. When I’m really feeling squirelly, I’ll have a partner call random “head” or “pelvic girdle” shots to account for obscured/armored targets.[/quote]

Nice. Looks like I might get my CHL in a couple of weeks. My only experience shooting is when my stepdad would take me out to my grandfather’s house in the country & say, “Here, now shoot this one. Point it over there.” Once we reach a certain level as instructors we have to have a busload of hours training with handguns, so I’m getting started now.

Hey, Cycobushmaster, I asked my students, informally, who carries what kind of weapon, if any. Virtually every male carries a little knife, & about half the females do. Several females carry pepper spray, but none of them seem to have any faith that they could use it effectively. Once you get into level 2 & above the amount of people who own guns skyrockets, and the number of CHL’s starts to grow - I’d say over half own a gun, not that many have CHL’s, though. Some people pretended not to hear the question, as they don’t care to advertise any advantage they might have (I assume). One Canadian student was shocked and disturbed by how many people say they own a gun, and he told us we were all crazy.

45

Heh. I can’t say I blame the people who don’t advertise. No point in concealing the damn thing if you’re going to run your mouth about it anyway.

46

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
It’s my understanding that many people do target practice far more than they practice drawing the weapon, which is scary. I never thought about drawing while you’re encumbered. You might also add another element. Go to a dollar store & pick up some baby dolls. The trainee has to hold the baby properly the whole time, protecting the head from bouncing (which would kill or permanently damage a child). I happened to pick up some babies that say stuff when you squeeze them, which was fun. You could have a baby in one hand & a grocery bag in the other - especially a bag filled with toilet paper or paper towels, in case the trainee decides to strike the attacker with it or throw it in the attacker’s face. Interestingly, men tend to do much better than women at the baby doll drill. They generally hold the baby like a football, cradling the head, which is a very stable position. [/quote]
I’ve thought about using dolls and may have to try that at some point. I don’t have kids, so it hasn’t been a priority.

Definitely agree with devil_dog on shooting from the holster and working in reloads. Sometimes I’ll have a buddy load my mags for me and he’ll either load them to less than capacity or sneak in a couple of snap caps (dummy rounds that will not fire) so I don’t know when I’m going to have to reload or clear a stoppage.

Great ideas coming out here. Next time to the range I want to work a few of these in.

47

Another good drill for anyone who carries is to set up a scenario where it’s appropriate to draw down on the threat but not to fire (i.e. guy with knife across the room) then, after the trainee has pulled his/her pistol downgrade the threat from lethal (i.e. drop the knife) but continue to advance steadily on the trainee with aggressive verbals, body language etc. Now the trainee needs to figure out what to do with their gun and the threat.

It can be surprisingly difficult to down-shift like that once you’ve gone to the gun but it is a totally plausible situation. Obviously this cannot be done with live ammo, but works well enough with airsoft or even better, if you have the opportunity and proper safety in place, simmunition.

Obviously the trainee can’t know where this is going at the start of the scenario or it defeats the purpose. Also, your “threat” needs to be prepared for any response, including pistol-whipping (my favorite) or even occasionally getting shot.

IMHO simulation type training for close quarter combat shooting is more helpful than endless range time. Just like HTH stuff shooting is way different under stress and in fact most people will be unable to even focus on their front sight let alone get off aimed, “range-type” shots.

48

[quote]batman730 wrote:
Obviously the trainee can’t know where this is going at the start of the scenario or it defeats the purpose. Also, your “threat” needs to be prepared for any response, including pistol-whipping (my favorite) or even occasionally getting shot. [/quote]

Spartan kick FTW.

49

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
Obviously the trainee can’t know where this is going at the start of the scenario or it defeats the purpose. Also, your “threat” needs to be prepared for any response, including pistol-whipping (my favorite) or even occasionally getting shot. [/quote]

Spartan kick FTW.[/quote]

Have seen/experienced this a few times and yes, when it works it is full of Win.