Just a Little Test...

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
lol…still no one has replied to my question of what choosing the winner of the election would reflect about either of us. This bet is so irrelevant and meaning less, yet some are apparently hung up on – and refuse or are unable to declare why!
[/quote]

I don’t know if this little tantrum is directed at me, or not - but I answered your question.

As for the ‘appropriateness’ of voting against a candidate instead of for one - thats your choice. I don’t think I’ve besmirched your honor by being ‘hung up’ on your choices, or lack thereof.

42

[quote]ZEB wrote:
RSU:

It’s not that we are “hung up on it.” It’s simply a way to declare in a strong fashion how much you believe in your candidate. You have been very aggressive on this forum when there were no consequences attatched.[/quote]
Since when must there be “consequences” to sharing one’s opinion?

[quote]
Sort of like a liberal professor pontificating for hours. Why not right, there are no earth shaking ramifications to his words.[/quote]
For the 35th time, by the way, where did you go to college, ZEB, and what was your degree in? I’m only curious.

[quote]
You have insulted the President of the United States on a regular basis on this forum. You have also personally insulted those who support President Bush. You have stated that John Kerry is smarter, more able and all around better suited for the job. You think he’s going to win![/quote]
So?

[quote]
You have now been called down to back up your words, and you continue to duck the challenge. It’s not about being “macho.” If you think it is then you really don’t understand. I am simply attempting to attach consequences to your words. You don’t like that much.[/quote]
Why on earth am I suddenly required to face consequences for SHARING MY OPINION? I can speak as I please, and it’s quite simply tough luck for you if you don’t like it.

[quote]
You seem so strong when you are spreading your venomous hateful posts. Attacking everyone from behind a keyboard, yet so weak when asked to back up your words.[/quote]
Crock.

[quote]
What part about this challenge scares you kid?[/quote]
It’s silly, for the umpteenth time! I back up my opinions with MY THOUGHTS and need not “sacrifice” ANYTHING to have the right share my thoughts.

43

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Right Side Up wrote:
lol…still no one has replied to my question of what choosing the winner of the election would reflect about either of us. This bet is so irrelevant and meaning less, yet some are apparently hung up on – and refuse or are unable to declare why!

rainjack wrote:
I don’t know if this little tantrum is directed at me, or not - but I answered your question.

As for the ‘appropriateness’ of voting against a candidate instead of for one - thats your choice. I don’t think I’ve besmirched your honor by being ‘hung up’ on your choices, or lack thereof.[/quote]

I wouldn’t call it a tantrum, I was responding to outside wishes that I participate in ZEB’s silly bet (which he prefers to call a “challenge”).

The post was not directed toward you.

I didn’t make any claim about my honor or any such sentiments. I responded to your original post by rejecting the notion of necessity you wish to place on positively supporting a candidate rather than not supporting the other.

That said, I understand your overall point, however. You wonder, like others have before, if anyone can articulate the reason they LIKE Kerry rather than dislike Bush. This seems to be a perfectly acceptable query, but I only wanted to show that it isn’t the necessary approach to selecting a candidate.

44

RSU:

You have the opportunity to keep me away from the political forum for three months upon Kerry beating Bush. You stated that you thought Kerry would win. What stops you from the challenge? Unless you think Kerry will lose…oh my…

45

ZEB, why not get off the merry-go-round and try a ride with some more substance?

46

[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
ZEB, why not get off the merry-go-round and try a ride with some more substance?[/quote]

No thanks, I like the “Challenge Ride.”

47

Just to throw my 2 cents in here–

I have yet to come across anybody that I have spoken politics with that is a big Kerry fan. Several of them are going to vote for him, but none have been excited about his candidacy. I have several family members and friends who are life long democrats among them. I agree very much with Zeb’s premise that it is much more an ant-Bush vote. I will say up front that I am not thrilled with all of the President’s policies and positions, but I feel MUCH more comfortable voting for him versus Kerry. In regards to the poster who is a Republican but is going to vote for Kerry, I respect you arguement. I do feel like showing your disappointment with Bush’s lack of conservativeness by voting for someone who is way further left is counterproductive. I do agree with you that many “Republicans” have totally deserted the conservatives.

48

It’s absolutely true that most people who vote Democrat will be voting against Bush, not for Kerry. But that makes very little difference. Is it any worse than the hordes of idiots who vote for Bush not knowing anything about politics? At least getting rid of Bush is a more educated vote. Bush caters to the wealthy, ignores the constitution and basic amendments of freedom, slashes benefits, starts an unnecessary war in Iraq and sends 10x more troops there than Afghanistan… Not to mention being a total cretin and embarrassing the US every time he makes a speech. I’m just tired being on my toes whenever this idiot is near a microphone. I cross my fingers and chant “please don’t say something stupid again”…

Even if I were a conservative I wouldn’t vote for this guy just in protest to the Republican party for nominating him. If we’ll be voting for just about anyone the parties throw at us than with every next presidency the candidates will be less and less worthy of the title. What message is that sending to the kids or the population in general? If the president, the №1 man in America can be an idiot, then alot of people will set pretty low standards for themslves don’t you think?

I think lately there has been a horrible trend in the US that being dumb is somehow cool and totally accepted. I’m certainly not in favor of that.

49

[quote]kryptoniteks wrote:
Just to throw my 2 cents in here–

I agree very much with Zeb’s premise that it is much more an ant-Bush vote. [/quote]

I think you meant rainjack here – zeb hasn’t had any premise at all in quite some time other than ‘bush will win.’

50

w2097,

I would be your welfare check on the fact that George Bush could best you in any intellectual endeavor.

There sure are a lot of us “hordes of idiots” across this great land.

Have a pleasant November.

JeffR

51

I stand corrected.

w2097,

While I could not disagree more with the majority of your statements in your previous post, I do very much agree that there is a general dumbing down of the population. It is frustrating to attempt to debate someone about their position when they are utterly ignorant about what the candidate or party stands for and have a basic grasp of the issues. Politics facinates and enrages me at the same time.

52

Opera,

Do you mean to tell me that Kerry is an intellectual? Are you serious?

No intellectual changes his position on so many issues so often and so dramatically on the public stage. An intellectual would be able to anticipate his opponent’s attacks. He/She certainly wouldn’t be so easily drawn into political traps. There is more (or less) here than a lack of political acumen.

An intellectual would realize that not every person in the world is a moron. Some people can remember what you say more than 24 hours.

Don’t believe me? I beg you to go to GeorgeBush.com and download the clip of his positions on Iraq.

Not to mention standing in front of a crowd in West Virginia and proudly stating that he actually voted for the 87 billion dollar bill before voting against it.

That is an absolutely ignorant position to take. No intellectual would make a comment like this if you are already being labelled as a flip-flopper.

I disagree with your premise about the RNC being pure emotion. However, if, as you contend, emotion wins elections, why present one of the driest, least-inspiring acceptance speeches on record? Kerry’s acceptance speech absolutely sucked. The only emotion it invoked, was one of disgust.

Why not fill your convention with positive emotions? Wouldn’t an intellectual be able to adapt?

Would an intellectual have staged a midnight rally in Ohio on the evening of your opponent’s acceptance speech? Wouldn’t an intellectual have realized how desperate a gambit that was?

You are going to have to work very hard to convince anyone that this guy is an intellectual.

JeffR

53

Voting for Kerry because you believe his “message” or not is irrelevant.

The fact is that Bush is destroying the country and I’d like to know ONE POSITIVE action this man has took.

“Getting Saddam out of Iraq” is the most superficial defense for Bush because Republicans like to think it is the end that counts, the means to the end is unimportant. Bush admits to being wrong about the WMDs…America was lied to and soldiers have died.

It’s so simple, and I’m proud to say that I have not met one Republican in my age group 18-25 years old in Miami, FL.

54

RSU:

Not true my little friend! I have had several excellent points that have somehow escaped your watchful eye. You pay better attention in class I hope.

Now how about that bet?

55

[quote]oboffill wrote:
…The fact is that Bush is destroying the country and I’d like to know ONE POSITIVE action this man has took…[/quote]

Where did you dig up this ‘fact’? How is it - exactly - that Bush is destroting this country?

One positive thing is the tax-cuts. Another might be pulling us out of a recession that was handed to him in 2000.
Still another might be the leadership he displayed a little over 3 years ago.

Your last statement pretty well sums it all up. You are a young head full of mush who has undoubtedly listened to his teachers instead of forming his own thoughts. That unsubstantiated line of bullshit might get you an ‘A’ in Poly-Sci, but your gonna have to try harder here, son.

56

[quote]oboffill wrote:

It’s so simple, and I’m proud to say that I have not met one Republican in my age group 18-25 years old in Miami, FL.[/quote]

Seriously, not even one? Do you get out much? Just hang out in piercing pagodas or co-op coffee shops?

I mean, I’m a few years out of school now, but I went to a state school in CA for undergrad, and there were plenty of Republicans around in that age demographic - and CA is more liberal than FL.

57

Oboffill,

“It’s so simple, and I’m proud to say that I have not met one Republican in my age group 18-25 years old in Miami, FL.”

Then you should escape your bubble and meet someone outside your two friends.

More later.

58

Oboffill,

Maybe this will warm you.

Bush has spent more on combatting AIDS than some European countries’ GDP.

59

Wow, where’d all these flames and this challenge come from? I go away for a few days and now I feel lost.

Thanks to all who’ve responded to my posts; I appreciate especially those of you who aknowledge my positions yet still disagree: such is the essence of public debate.

Sorry to those who’ve posed questions that I don’t respond to; I 'm not ignoring the question, merely forgetting to address it amid reading the now 57 posts in this thread.

Jeff:
Your post was most recent and thus I can address it most easily. I do hang on to my contention that Kerry is quite the intellectual, albeit not the best campaigner.

I watched the clip at georgebush.com and there are explanations for all the positions there. In every case things were taken out of context to make Kerry look like a flip-flopper, which while I’m on it is not such a bad thing. Personally I’d prefer a president who changes his own mind to one who surrenders his mind to his chief political advisor.

The afamed 87 billion flip flop is perhaps the most easily addressed: there were two different bills. Kerry voted for the first one, but it got changed and included a number of things Kerry disagreed with, so when the new version came up for a vote he voted against it.

I’m afraid I missed the DNC because I was overseas at the time, but of what I’ve seen of it I have to agree that Kerry’s speech came nowhere close to Millers, Cheney’s, or Bush’s at the RNC. THe DNC did make a number of emotional plays, but they were mostly directed either at the extreme left base, or as a means of introducing the more moderate america to their candidate. The convention of the challenging party is forced by circumstance to devote their time to introducing their candidate; everyone already knows Bush.

All the being said, I have to admit that Kerry and his boys do the same sort of distortion that Bush is guilty of doing. Much of the tradition liberal campaign rhetoric is simply a distortion of the facts to persuade voters. I do wish we were all evolved enough to stick to the facts and debate those, the real heart of the issues, without resorting to cheap rhetorical tricks.

Most all of the issues today have 2 very good sides(sometimes more) that are perfectly valid and defensible, but apparently our society which is too dumb to eat right and too obese to do anything but lay around and too tired to work out, is probably also too lazy to actually think for themselves.

60

Jeffr wrote:

"I would be your welfare check on the fact that George Bush could best you in any intellectual endeavor.

There sure are a lot of us “hordes of idiots” across this great land.

Have a pleasant November."

Well, besides not understanding my point(why bother, actual arguments are so overrated, right?) you only decided to take things to offense. Well than at least be honest and save the ‘pleasant November’.

It’s actually a pretty good insult to anyone’s intelligence: “You’re dumber than George W. Bush”. :smiley:

You know, when Clinton fucked up, everyone bashed him, right and left-wingers alike, even the Democratic party members. The media was tearing it appart and Clinton himself was apologizing. When Bush fucks up(1000x worse than lying about your dick) everyone seems to think he’s doing a great job and Bush himself continues to stand on the podium with a straight face. Why the double standard? It took 2 years after Sept 11th for these media cowards to finaly start asking what the fuk are we doing in Iraq. There was never any apology from Bush or his administration for the massive security failure in 2001 or the kilodeath of American troops in a country that hasn’t posed any threat to the US.