Big things happening in news recently that we haven’t touched on here in PWI yet. Discuss.
But the Judge allowed them to continue so they could appeal. This will drag on in the courts for a while.
I agree with the Judge on the ruling, just wish the judge would have forced the NSA to stop.
The terrorists won.
Whenever the Government overreaches on such a massive and systemic scale, look for the words “standing” and “political question” all over the opinions dismissing the appeal. Those are judicial code words for “it’s obviously unconstitutional, but we don’t give a shit, and you aren’t going to get any relief.”
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Whenever the Government overreaches on such a massive and systemic scale, look for the words “standing” and “political question” all over the opinions dismissing the appeal. Those are judicial code words for “it’s obviously unconstitutional, but we don’t give a shit, and you aren’t going to get any relief.” [/quote]
Listening to the rational for appealing just amazes me.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide. [/quote]
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
Yes we started two wars that were/are expensive. How is that a “win” for the terrorist, many of which are now dead because of said wars? That seems like a loss for them. Bin Laden isn’t celebrating a victory… It didn’t cripple the economy; hell you could argue it helped the economy.
We lost our place in the world, how so? Economically we are still top dog even with the recession. Politically there has been a loss of power, but to say we “lost our place” is a stretch, imo. We have lost some influence, absolutely.
Freedom is, imo, the biggest loss and it’s a big one.
It’s hard for me to agree they won in a landslide when so many terrorists are now dead and no major terrorist attack has occurred on US soil since 9/11 (You could count Libya I suppose).
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide. [/quote]
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
Yes we started two wars that were/are expensive. How is that a “win” for the terrorist, many of which are now dead because of said wars? That seems like a loss for them. Bin Laden isn’t celebrating a victory… It didn’t cripple the economy; hell you could argue it helped the economy.
We lost our place in the world, how so? Economically we are still top dog even with the recession. Politically there has been a loss of power, but to say we “lost our place” is a stretch, imo. We have lost some influence, absolutely.
Freedom is, imo, the biggest loss and it’s a big one.
It’s hard for me to agree they won in a landslide when so many terrorists are now dead and no major terrorist attack has occurred on US soil since 9/11 (You could count Libya I suppose). [/quote]
If I can get you to spend trillions I dont need to blow up your busses.
What does a bus go for these days?
Osama called it.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide. [/quote]
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
Yes we started two wars that were/are expensive. How is that a “win” for the terrorist, many of which are now dead because of said wars? That seems like a loss for them. Bin Laden isn’t celebrating a victory… It didn’t cripple the economy; hell you could argue it helped the economy.
We lost our place in the world, how so? Economically we are still top dog even with the recession. Politically there has been a loss of power, but to say we “lost our place” is a stretch, imo. We have lost some influence, absolutely.
Freedom is, imo, the biggest loss and it’s a big one.
It’s hard for me to agree they won in a landslide when so many terrorists are now dead and no major terrorist attack has occurred on US soil since 9/11 (You could count Libya I suppose). [/quote]
If I can get you to spend trillions I dont need to blow up your busses.
What does a bus go for these days?
Osama called it.[/quote]
Like I said, the won more than they should of.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide. [/quote]
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
Yes we started two wars that were/are expensive. How is that a “win” for the terrorist, many of which are now dead because of said wars? That seems like a loss for them. Bin Laden isn’t celebrating a victory… It didn’t cripple the economy; hell you could argue it helped the economy.
We lost our place in the world, how so? Economically we are still top dog even with the recession. Politically there has been a loss of power, but to say we “lost our place” is a stretch, imo. We have lost some influence, absolutely.
Freedom is, imo, the biggest loss and it’s a big one.
It’s hard for me to agree they won in a landslide when so many terrorists are now dead and no major terrorist attack has occurred on US soil since 9/11 (You could count Libya I suppose). [/quote]
If I can get you to spend trillions I dont need to blow up your busses.
What does a bus go for these days?
Osama called it.[/quote]
Sounds like US cold war strategy…IMO, he learned his lessons well.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide. [/quote]
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
Yes we started two wars that were/are expensive. How is that a “win” for the terrorist, many of which are now dead because of said wars? That seems like a loss for them. Bin Laden isn’t celebrating a victory… It didn’t cripple the economy; hell you could argue it helped the economy.
We lost our place in the world, how so? Economically we are still top dog even with the recession. Politically there has been a loss of power, but to say we “lost our place” is a stretch, imo. We have lost some influence, absolutely.
Freedom is, imo, the biggest loss and it’s a big one.
It’s hard for me to agree they won in a landslide when so many terrorists are now dead and no major terrorist attack has occurred on US soil since 9/11 (You could count Libya I suppose). [/quote]
Lol, how exactly did Iraq and Afghanistan “help” the economy? If that’s the case why don’t we go to war more often? You don’t think the national debt has been tremendously impacted from it? Not just the wars which are and continue to be expensive, but the federal government expansions in the name of stopping terrorism. The costs are astronomical. It’s not just terrorists that are now dead. U.S. soldiers are dead. Iraqi civilians are dead. Women, children in Afghanistan are now dead. Are we more or less respected after these wars? I’d argue less.
We won’t ever get those freedoms back either. We will live in an ever expanding police state and become more like those places we claim to hate than less.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The terrorists won. [/quote]
I’d say they won more than they should have. [/quote]
We started two insanely long and expensive wars. We lost our standing in the world. We eroded our freedoms in the name of protection.
I can’t help but think they won in a landslide. [/quote]
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
Yes we started two wars that were/are expensive. How is that a “win” for the terrorist, many of which are now dead because of said wars? That seems like a loss for them. Bin Laden isn’t celebrating a victory… It didn’t cripple the economy; hell you could argue it helped the economy.
We lost our place in the world, how so? Economically we are still top dog even with the recession. Politically there has been a loss of power, but to say we “lost our place” is a stretch, imo. We have lost some influence, absolutely.
Freedom is, imo, the biggest loss and it’s a big one.
It’s hard for me to agree they won in a landslide when so many terrorists are now dead and no major terrorist attack has occurred on US soil since 9/11 (You could count Libya I suppose). [/quote]
If I can get you to spend trillions I dont need to blow up your busses.
What does a bus go for these days?
Osama called it.[/quote]
Sounds like US cold war strategy…IMO, he learned his lessons well. [/quote]
He better have. The CIA paid good drug money for his education.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Lol, how exactly did Iraq and Afghanistan “help” the economy?
[/quote]
Lol, for about a hundred different reasons:
1.) R&D on war technology.
2.) Troops have to be hired, trained, etc…(and get this, they make money they in turn spend)
3.) Gear has to be bought for troops (Someone has to make it).
4.) Contrators are hired for like 900 things.
All of the above and then some boosts the economy.
If only other wars in history could be pointed to to show how war can help a depressed economy, lol…
Because the economic boost is a side affect of war, not the reason for going to it.
Eveything is so black and white with you isn’t it? Yes a lot of people, other than terrorists died. More terrorists died than anyone else. Jesus, I didn’t say “Good triumphed over Evil and it was glorious” or something absurd like. All those terrorists that are in the ground or now Shrimp shit lost, period. Was WII a lose because a whole lot of people died during WWII, many of which were not the “enemy”?
Has the U.S. lost some respect, sure. Do we care, I don’t.
You don’t know that and I’m glad not everyone has the same mentality as you. Thank God guys like John Adams and George Washington didn’t just subjugate themselves to their “rulers”.
Get a grip Chicken Little.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Lol, how exactly did Iraq and Afghanistan “help” the economy?
[/quote]
Lol, for about a hundred different reasons:
1.) R&D on war technology.
2.) Troops have to be hired, trained, etc…(and get this, they make money they in turn spend)
3.) Gear has to be bought for troops (Someone has to make it).
4.) Contrators are hired for like 900 things.
All of the above and then some boosts the economy.
If only other wars in history could be pointed to to show how war can help a depressed economy, lol…
Because the economic boost is a side affect of war, not the reason for going to it.
Eveything is so black and white with you isn’t it? Yes a lot of people, other than terrorists died. More terrorists died than anyone else. Jesus, I didn’t say “Good triumphed over Evil and it was glorious” or something absurd like. All those terrorists that are in the ground or now Shrimp shit lost, period. Was WII a lose because a whole lot of people died during WWII, many of which were not the “enemy”?
Has the U.S. lost some respect, sure. Do we care, I don’t.
You don’t know that and I’m glad not everyone has the same mentality as you. Thank God guys like John Adams and George Washington didn’t just subjugate themselves to their “rulers”.
Get a grip Chicken Little. [/quote]
It’s always easy to get a rise out of the war hawks. And yet I don’t see you advocating for government spending money here as much. In fact I see you actively against it. Why be against welfare? Why be against government stimulus? The same money gets spent by people. Money for Boeing=good and they will respend it. Money for poor people (who will also respend it) is bad?
Adams and Washington have little in common with Bush and Obama. World War II and the War on Terror have little in common. And I thought I was the one trying to make everything black and white?
If war is such a massive economic boost then how could the Great Recession happen in the midst of two of the longest and most expensive wars ever? Logic fail.
It’s fun to watch you guys squirm around trying to justify one type of big government while railing against the other types.
Whatever, stay inconsistent.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Lol, how exactly did Iraq and Afghanistan “help” the economy?
[/quote]
Lol, for about a hundred different reasons:
1.) R&D on war technology.
2.) Troops have to be hired, trained, etc…(and get this, they make money they in turn spend)
3.) Gear has to be bought for troops (Someone has to make it).
4.) Contrators are hired for like 900 things.
All of the above and then some boosts the economy.
If only other wars in history could be pointed to to show how war can help a depressed economy, lol…
Because the economic boost is a side affect of war, not the reason for going to it.
Eveything is so black and white with you isn’t it? Yes a lot of people, other than terrorists died. More terrorists died than anyone else. Jesus, I didn’t say “Good triumphed over Evil and it was glorious” or something absurd like. All those terrorists that are in the ground or now Shrimp shit lost, period. Was WII a lose because a whole lot of people died during WWII, many of which were not the “enemy”?
Has the U.S. lost some respect, sure. Do we care, I don’t.
You don’t know that and I’m glad not everyone has the same mentality as you. Thank God guys like John Adams and George Washington didn’t just subjugate themselves to their “rulers”.
Get a grip Chicken Little. [/quote]
Talk about a subjugated perspective…do you even think?
I’m calling Bullshit here!
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Lol, how exactly did Iraq and Afghanistan “help” the economy?
[/quote]
Lol, for about a hundred different reasons:
1.) R&D on war technology.
2.) Troops have to be hired, trained, etc…(and get this, they make money they in turn spend)
3.) Gear has to be bought for troops (Someone has to make it).
4.) Contrators are hired for like 900 things.
All of the above and then some boosts the economy.
If only other wars in history could be pointed to to show how war can help a depressed economy, lol…
Because the economic boost is a side affect of war, not the reason for going to it.
Eveything is so black and white with you isn’t it? Yes a lot of people, other than terrorists died. More terrorists died than anyone else. Jesus, I didn’t say “Good triumphed over Evil and it was glorious” or something absurd like. All those terrorists that are in the ground or now Shrimp shit lost, period. Was WII a lose because a whole lot of people died during WWII, many of which were not the “enemy”?
Has the U.S. lost some respect, sure. Do we care, I don’t.
You don’t know that and I’m glad not everyone has the same mentality as you. Thank God guys like John Adams and George Washington didn’t just subjugate themselves to their “rulers”.
Get a grip Chicken Little. [/quote]
It is so hard to take you seriously when your avatar is of a fat Randy Marsh playing video games in his underwear.
I’m not saying the resemblance isn’t uncanny, but…
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I’m not saying the resemblance isn’t uncanny, but…
[/quote]
Now that’s just mean.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Talk about a subjugated perspective…do you even think?
I’m calling Bullshit here!
[/quote]
Huh?
Hfactor says we will never get out freedom back. I say we can take, like we have in the past, but I’m the subjugated one?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Talk about a subjugated perspective…do you even think?
I’m calling Bullshit here!
[/quote]
Huh?
Hfactor says we will never get out freedom back. I say we can take, like we have in the past, but I’m the subjugated one?[/quote]
Please give me examples of us gaining civil liberties since 9/11. Look at the situation after the Boston bombing. You think with technology and with “terrorism” fears that we will be more free sometime soon? Honestly you’re making me laugh today. Go back and explain the Broken Window Fallacy mistakes you’re making in thinking war boosts the economy while explaining to me how the Great Recession managed to happen in the midst of the two longest and most expensive wars in U.S. History.
From the geniuses who brought you the Bush tax cuts during these wars comes…“WAR- IT’S ALWAYS AN ECONOMIC BOOST!” Well, as long as you don’t understand economics it is.