Jordan 2, ISIS/L 1

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

End of the day, the act of killing in revenge like that isn’t tied to any sort of justice we should be comfortable with. What’s next? Punishing next of kin for shit?

[/quote]

If Jihad Johnny had your brother with a knife to his neck and was threatening to kill him what length would you go to make him stop? Threaten his next of kin with retaliation if your brother was hurt? Obviously pleading for the lives of these poor defenseless hostages is of no use.

According to legend, back in Lebanon during the civil war circa 1983, right around the time of the devastating US Marine and French Embassy bombings, the terrorists (Hezbollah?) threatened to attack the Russian Embassy as well. What did the Russians do? First they parked a Druse tank in front of the Embassy and said, “send your trucks any time you dare.”

Then the KGB captured one of the terrorists, cut off his nuts and sent them to the others as a warning. So far, best as I know, the Russian Embassy in Lebanon, if it even still exists, hasn’t been attacked.

The Russians taught terrorism classes in their colleges…they obviously know and understand how to effectively speak terrorist. [/quote]

Heads up, I served.

If someone captured one of my Marines I’d do everything in my power to get him back, but I wouldn’t respond by killing one of theirs that I might have detained as a response if they killed one of mine.

By playing their game, we lose. Once we start trading hostages, or killing detainees with reciprocity, we are playing their game and in a way meddling in their Muslim ways. Getting into that is a great recruitment tool.

They use our involvement as an example of evil and it helps to swell their ranks, we need to be aware of this. You talk about teaching terrorism in a class, half of terrorism is recruiting and finding a way to use what we do against us.

Do you wonder why they used the whole f16 montage and dead children prior to the burning in their footage? They use collateral damage as a recruitment tool and link everything from f16’s to drones as a type of cowardly weapon.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
What’s all this about King Abdullah? The Hashemites are corpulent, corrupt despots just like most the other Arab monarchs today. Good that he’s relatively pro-Western though.[/quote]

Nuh-uh. He’s a true leader since he was a military man!

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
What’s all this about King Abdullah? The Hashemites are corpulent, corrupt despots just like most the other Arab monarchs today. Good that he’s relatively pro-Western though.[/quote]

Nuh-uh. He’s a true leader since he was a military man![/quote]

No combat experience, but yes; paratrooper badge, led a tank brigade, then switched services to the Air Force, now head of SFs - yes, when you’re heir apparent to the throne I guess you can be just about anything.

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

“Generally speaking”, no. Christians did not kill other Christians during the Crusades. Generally speaking it was Muslims and Jews.
[/quote]

Albigensian crusade was Christian against Christian. [/quote]

Yes, I know. Hence my post above.

[quote]Otherwise you are right.
[/quote]

Yes. Generally speaking, that’s true.

:slight_smile:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

“Generally speaking”, no. Christians did not kill other Christians during the Crusades. Generally speaking it was Muslims and Jews.
[/quote]

Albigensian crusade was Christian against Christian. [/quote]

Yes, I know. Hence my post above.

[quote]Otherwise you are right.
[/quote]

Yes. Generally speaking, that’s true.

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

Actually, as I mentioned the Fourth Crusade was Christian against Christian too. And the shifting alliances in Jerusalem often involved Christian factions allied with Muslims against other Christians. But these are all technicalities and it seems we all agree that in general it was Christians against Muslims and wipe out any Jews they come across along the way.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yeah and who gives a crap if they hung these two terrorists or not? They were already on death row, the woman in particular for being part of an attack on a Jordanian hotel which killed 60 people. Shit, in my hometown there’s a guy who’s been on death row since the late 80’s and the crimes he committed against a small unarmed child would make for a good horror film but no one has the balls to end his life and he’s still alive almost thirty years later.

These ISIS terrorists are scum and should be treated as such. They cry when we bomb their “women and children” and yet showed a video of a little kid executing some Russians. If that’s the case, well your women and children are fair game. They burned this pilot alive and, as far as executing the two terrorists, sure it was an emotional response, sure it was a gut reaction and total revenge, but that’s the kind of thing ISIS understands, so I say go for it. After all Mohammad said attack your enemy the way they attack you, and finally, someone’s had the freaking balls to do it.[/quote]

The essence of democracy and Western idealism, universal freedom, is such that all lives are to be respected on a basic, fundamental level. This shouldn’t change even if the other guy commits something horrible.[/quote]

LMAO

That’s some funny shit right there. Life is cheap - history has shown this. You can debate all the morality you want, but at the end of the day people will act in their own self interest.

The reason we are the target of these animals is PRECISELY the idealistic bullshit you just vomited on to the forum: They know they can do WHATEVER the fuck they want, and we don’t have the spine to do SHIT about it…

Until we come to the realization that the ONLY thing these terrorists will respect is GREATER FORCE and making their actions MORE PAINFUL to them than it is to us, we will continue to lose.

But I don’t expect a peace-loving, tree-hugging liberal to understand that. Maybe if we sent our troops to go hand out more candy to the children they’d change their mind? /sarcasm

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yeah and who gives a crap if they hung these two terrorists or not? They were already on death row, the woman in particular for being part of an attack on a Jordanian hotel which killed 60 people. Shit, in my hometown there’s a guy who’s been on death row since the late 80’s and the crimes he committed against a small unarmed child would make for a good horror film but no one has the balls to end his life and he’s still alive almost thirty years later.

These ISIS terrorists are scum and should be treated as such. They cry when we bomb their “women and children” and yet showed a video of a little kid executing some Russians. If that’s the case, well your women and children are fair game. They burned this pilot alive and, as far as executing the two terrorists, sure it was an emotional response, sure it was a gut reaction and total revenge, but that’s the kind of thing ISIS understands, so I say go for it. After all Mohammad said attack your enemy the way they attack you, and finally, someone’s had the freaking balls to do it.[/quote]

The essence of democracy and Western idealism, universal freedom, is such that all lives are to be respected on a basic, fundamental level. This shouldn’t change even if the other guy commits something horrible.[/quote]

LMAO

That’s some funny shit right there. Life is cheap - history has shown this. You can debate all the morality you want, but at the end of the day people will act in their own self interest.

The reason we are the target of these animals is PRECISELY the idealistic bullshit you just vomited on to the forum: They know they can do WHATEVER the fuck they want, and we don’t have the spine to do SHIT about it…

Until we come to the realization that the ONLY thing these terrorists will respect is GREATER FORCE and making their actions MORE PAINFUL to them than it is to us, we will continue to lose.

But I don’t expect a peace-loving, tree-hugging liberal to understand that. Maybe if we sent our troops to go hand out more candy to the children they’d change their mind? /sarcasm[/quote]

The thing is there is a balancing act since we are dealing with Islam. End of the day we have to be careful of our actions because our involvement and actions are things that swell the ranks of ISIS depending on how we conduct ourselves.

Every time we kill a kid or woman, be it them putting children and women in buildings they know we will bomb or not, is a recruitment opportunity for them, and it will bring sympathy from Muslims be them Shia or Sunni in the form of funding as well as people willing to lay their lives down. We are fighting a propaganda machine as well as a terrorist group among groups that are pretty much animals as it is.

When all is said and done, there are a lot of Sunni’s who give a shit what happens to Shiites and would gladly see them kill one another on some kind of Shia civil war, there are also Sunni’s who are sympathetic to ISIS cause and are super wealthy and have already donated lots of money to them. We will eventually find out how much of this funding is coming from the Saudi’s, some day… I hope it finally comes out, and whether the royal family is involved (which is fucking massive).

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yeah and who gives a crap if they hung these two terrorists or not? They were already on death row, the woman in particular for being part of an attack on a Jordanian hotel which killed 60 people. Shit, in my hometown there’s a guy who’s been on death row since the late 80’s and the crimes he committed against a small unarmed child would make for a good horror film but no one has the balls to end his life and he’s still alive almost thirty years later.

These ISIS terrorists are scum and should be treated as such. They cry when we bomb their “women and children” and yet showed a video of a little kid executing some Russians. If that’s the case, well your women and children are fair game. They burned this pilot alive and, as far as executing the two terrorists, sure it was an emotional response, sure it was a gut reaction and total revenge, but that’s the kind of thing ISIS understands, so I say go for it. After all Mohammad said attack your enemy the way they attack you, and finally, someone’s had the freaking balls to do it.[/quote]

The essence of democracy and Western idealism, universal freedom, is such that all lives are to be respected on a basic, fundamental level. This shouldn’t change even if the other guy commits something horrible.[/quote]

LMAO

That’s some funny shit right there. Life is cheap - history has shown this. You can debate all the morality you want, but at the end of the day people will act in their own self interest.

The reason we are the target of these animals is PRECISELY the idealistic bullshit you just vomited on to the forum: They know they can do WHATEVER the fuck they want, and we don’t have the spine to do SHIT about it…

Until we come to the realization that the ONLY thing these terrorists will respect is GREATER FORCE and making their actions MORE PAINFUL to them than it is to us, we will continue to lose.

But I don’t expect a peace-loving, tree-hugging liberal to understand that. Maybe if we sent our troops to go hand out more candy to the children they’d change their mind? /sarcasm[/quote]

The thing is there is a balancing act since we are dealing with Islam. End of the day we have to be careful of our actions because our involvement and actions are things that swell the ranks of ISIS depending on how we conduct ourselves.
[/quote]I think that would be a good thing. Here’s why: muslims fall on a spectrum ranging from fucking crazy to almost secular. The problem is that they all blend in together. If we can draw out the crazy ones, we would then have a perfectly good reason to kill them, making the world a more peaceful place.[quote]

Every time we kill a kid or woman, be it them putting children and women in buildings they know we will bomb or not, is a recruitment opportunity for them, and it will bring sympathy from Muslims be them Shia or Sunni in the form of funding as well as people willing to lay their lives down. We are fighting a propaganda machine as well as a terrorist group among groups that are pretty much animals as it is.

[/quote]This probably won’t go over very well, but here goes: every time we kill a woman or a kid over there, we kill a potential future terrorist. Again, if we draw them out of the woodwork, then we can isolate the crazy ones and kill them. Also, if we were to retaliate against the population that gives these animals aid, comfort and shelter, they would probably be less inclined to do that if there were an actual CONSEQUENCE for those actions. Make no mistake: the people that SUPPORT terrorists are JUST AS GUILTY as the the assholes doing the killing. I nee NO DIFFERENCE. They all need to be “discouraged” from that behavior.[quote]

When all is said and done, there are a lot of Sunni’s who give a shit what happens to Shiites and would gladly see them kill one another on some kind of Shia civil war, there are also Sunni’s who are sympathetic to ISIS cause and are super wealthy and have already donated lots of money to them. We will eventually find out how much of this funding is coming from the Saudi’s, some day… I hope it finally comes out, and whether the royal family is involved (which is fucking massive).
[/quote]

Don’t get me started on that shit. I mean we SANCTION Russia for it’s activities against a NON NATO member, but with the Saudi’s (and other countries over there), we bend over and kiss their fucking ass when half of their “royal family” is funding terrorists. Our “allies” over there are actively funding terrorist, but we turn a blind eye to it. It’s fucking BULLSHIT. I mean right after 9/11, we evacuated the FAMILY MEMBERS of OBL without so much as a fucking question!

Quote:

"The thing is there is a balancing act since we are dealing with Islam. End of the day we have to be careful of our actions because our involvement and actions are things that swell the ranks of ISIS depending on how we conduct ourselves.

Every time we kill a kid or woman, be it them putting children and women in buildings they know we will bomb or not, is a recruitment opportunity for them, and it will bring sympathy from Muslims be them Shia or Sunni in the form of funding as well as people willing to lay their lives down. We are fighting a propaganda machine as well as a terrorist group among groups that are pretty much animals as it is"

I disagree. Reason won’t work,nice won’t work,being afraid won’t work,ignoring them won’t work. If someone hates you,and wants to kill you,you’d better kill them first. Your only other option is to try a lot of useless measures that will in no way.deter their cause. Wake up to this and don’t be afraid. The whole idea of stirring up a hornets nest is wrong headed thinking. Never let anyone threaten or intimidate you. Take the threat seriously ams eliminate it.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

Kind of playing devil’s advocate here but…How is it not comparable?

[/quote]

The Crusades were a response to a few hundred years of Muslim aggression.

The Crusaders didn’t attack and slaughter other Christians.
[/quote]

Huh?

Tell me, o wise one, what is the origin of the expression “kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out”?[/quote]

Did he utter those famous words in a Crusade against Muslims?
[/quote]

No. It was during the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars, Christians whom the Catholic church considered to be heretics.

Uttered when Legate Almaric’s order to kill all the Cathars in the Christian city of Beziers was questioned, on the grounds that it was hard to tell a Cathar from a Catholic. “Kill them all,” he said, meaning everyone
in the city, “God will know his own.”
[/quote]

Precisely. Thank you.[/quote]

You said that “the Crusaders didn’t attack and slaughter other Christians”, and I responded by pointing out that they attacked and slaughtered other Christians.

Which just goes to show that in fact there is a parallel with ISIS, as their jihad is not only against the non-Muslims, but also against the secular, moderate, non batshit fucking crazy Muslims that they view as being heretics, in league with the kafirun. So their method is to kill them all, and trust that Allah will know his own.

So you’re welcome, I guess.

And then our fearless leader throws christians under the bus.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And then our fearless leader throws christians under the bus.

[/quote]

I heard him the other day talking about the Jordanian pilot and he wouldn’t say who had done it. He said “whoever did this…” as if it’s not known who was responsible.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Which just goes to show that in fact there is a parallel with ISIS,
[/quote]

Except for the couple centuries of evolution in thought… Yeah, totally.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And then our fearless leader throws christians under the bus.

[/quote]

I heard him the other day talking about the Jordanian pilot and he wouldn’t say who had done it. He said “whoever did this…” as if it’s not known who was responsible.[/quote]

I think he meant whatever individuals. Obama is not my kind of president, but lets not condemn him by misappropriating his remarks.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Which just goes to show that in fact there is a parallel with ISIS,
[/quote]

Except for the couple centuries of evolution in thought… Yeah, totally. [/quote]

Of course, but isn’t that the difference? Without that reformation and separation of church and state Christendom would likely still be committing similar acts. I am all for condemning Islam, but within its correct historical and comparative context.

[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
Obama is not my kind of president, but lets not condemn him by misappropriating his remarks.

[/quote]

Bringing up something that happened centuries ago and comparing it to what people are doing today, in a blatant attempt to rationalize/justify/soften isn’t valid.

Someone that actually deserves respect and has honor, wouldn’t even mention it.

Obama speaks as if the Crusades were just last week. Amazing. He had to go back nearly a millennium to find a way to minimize the atrocities of ISIS.

[quote]Musashi92 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And then our fearless leader throws christians under the bus.

- YouTube??�¯�?�»�?�¿

[/quote]

I heard him the other day talking about the Jordanian pilot and he wouldn’t say who had done it. He said “whoever did this…” as if it’s not known who was responsible.[/quote]

I think he meant whatever individuals. Obama is not my kind of president, but lets not condemn him by misappropriating his remarks.

[/quote]

Actually I misquoted him. I’m pretty certain he said “whichever group”. It’s all part of his game of pretending it has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims. I’m not misappropriating his remarks. He does this all the time. He’s been doing it for years.