[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
That claim is stupid, [/quote]
So you didn’t click on, nor read the UN study I linked?
Gotcha.
Disingenuous and willfully ignorant. Great debate approach man, well played.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
A variation on “All politics is local?” 
[/quote]
Well, yeah, but also a recognition that Japan has been SO moderate for SO long, that any move in any direction on the political spectrum seems extreme. Remember Murayama, the evil Socialist prime minister with the sinister eyebrows who unseated the LDP from their decades-long reign? Remember the Socialist nightmare that Japan became during his tenure?
No, me neither.
I fondly think of him as the Japanese Obama.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
And not ever, ever, ever having to even think about the possibility of being shot by a policeman.
[/quote]
This thought has never really entered my mind either to be honest.
[/quote]
Are you part of an ethnic and cultural minority where you live, as I am?
Makes you think about things differently.[/quote]
I was one of 6 white people in 6+ block radius all through college, 3 of the other white people living in the same house as I was, in a city that incredibly diverse. Heavy on Hispanic and Southeast Asian gangs. Neither I, nor any of the neighbors we befriended had fear that the police would suddenly roll by and execute any of us.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Where are your statistics which prove that the U.S. is more dangerous?
And there is more to danger than murder rates, so don’t just restate that.
Edit: And if I’m not mistaken, some European countries count “murders” differently than the US, so your numbers on that might just be meaningless.
[/quote]
He obviously didn’t even click the link I posted. It proves his bullshit to be, well utter bullshit.
It’s okay, he has to justify his preference of being a disarmed slave to the state somehow.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
And not ever, ever, ever having to even think about the possibility of being shot by a policeman.
[/quote]
This thought has never really entered my mind either to be honest.
[/quote]
Are you part of an ethnic and cultural minority where you live, as I am?
Makes you think about things differently.[/quote]
I was one of 6 white people in 6+ block radius all through college, 3 of the other white people living in the same house as I was, in a city that incredibly diverse. Heavy on Hispanic and Southeast Asian gangs. Neither I, nor any of the neighbors we befriended had fear that the police would suddenly roll by and execute any of us.
[/quote]
Haha. Okay. I once lived and worked in a halfway house in South Central Los Angeles. I was one of three white guys in that house, the other being the owner, and another being one of the twenty or so inmates. If there were any other white people in a mile in any direction, I never saw them. One of my unofficial duties was stitching up the scalp of a young black gang member who had been brutally pistol whipped by a rival gang member on the front lawn of the house in broad daylight just half an hour earlier.
My point was not “have I ever personally felt in fear of my life from the police”, but rather, “do I live in a society where the police routinely kill people”? In the United States, that answer, whether justified or not, is “yes”. In Japan, the answer is “no”.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
My point was not “have I ever personally felt in fear of my life from the police”, but rather, “do I live in a society where the police routinely kill people”? In the United States, that answer, whether justified or not, is “yes”. In Japan, the answer is “no”.
[/quote]
Fair enough… But, particularly here, you’re more likely to be assaulted/killed/robbed by a gang member than the police. Shit, even the gang bangers here don’t get shot by the cops… (I’ve heard plenty of rumors they are paying the police off, but that isn’t for me to be sure of.)
I’ll be honest though… Outside the couple of crack houses/heroin dens and the intermittent robbery of the local stores, and shooting outside the bar down the street, that was the most fun neighbor to live in.
Fun fact: until I moved across the river with my wife, at least one, if not multiple people, were shot, either in the street or outside a store/bar within 200 yards of each home I lived in this city… 5 residences. There are streets I can’t drive down because I have a blue car…
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Until I moved across the river with my wife, at least one, if not multiple people, were shot, either in the street or outside a store/bar within 200 yards of each home I lived in this city… 5 residences.
[/quote]
Shit, I’ll bet the neighbors were glad to see you leave. Sounds like you attracted shootings wherever you went!
No, I’m in full agreement about the relative danger of gang violence versus police violence. And sure, I would prefer the armored vehicles and attack helicopters be in the hands of the cops than the Crips (but really, if I actually had a say in the matter, I would really prefer the military weapons in the hands of neither gang).
But it’s like I’ve said before: I don’t really miss a lot of the freedumbs that people get so agitated about in Murica. Sure, the government makes it very difficult for me to own a firearm here, and I am a serious firearms enthusiast, so yes, the freedumb to walk around with a cocked-and-locked 1911 on my belt and a Socom rifle slung over my shoulder is not as available to me here as it might be in, say, Moscow, Idaho or Whitefish, Montana.
On the other hand, I’ve never, in all the years I’ve lived here, ever felt like I really needed a gun. Less crime, less punishment.
The tree of liberty may be a small bonsai here in comparison the the mighty General Sherman redwood there in Murica, but it requires far less watering with the blood of either patriots or tyrants.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
(but really, if I actually had a say in the matter, I would really prefer the military weapons in the hands of neither gang).[/quote]
agreed
[quote]But it’s like I’ve said before: I don’t really miss a lot of the freedumbs that people get so agitated about in Murica. Sure, the government makes it very difficult for me to own a firearm here, and I am a serious firearms enthusiast, so yes, the freedumb to walk around with a cocked-and-locked 1911 on my belt and a Socom rifle slung over my shoulder is not as available to me here as it might be in, say, Moscow, Idaho or Whitefish, Montana.
On the other hand, I’ve never, in all the years I’ve lived here, ever felt like I really needed a gun.[/quote]
I’m going to be honest here. I don’t feel the need to own one either, outside of very specific times. (Last year leaving work around midnight, while taking my regular route, I missed being in the crossfire of a street side execution by 15 mins. The shooting was 10 yards from the police station door.)
A gun is secondary on my “home security plan” list, as we keep ours locked up because of the kids. In fact, I have one of the alarm sensors on the safe door, for 2 reasons. If someone gets past the alarm and gets in, they can’t get the guns without setting off the alarm, and second I get a text alert anytime someone opens the door. So the boy snoops around and wants to play with the new aimpoint, I know it, and bust him.
It’s really the principle of the entire thing, and the pure enjoyment of punching holes in paper, cans, bottles, and plinking steal. The joy of making ammo and having it group. The challenge of being a decent shot. Sort of like lifting. No one NEEDS to lift 400lbs, but fuck me sideways if I don’t want to and enjoy it.
Is it freedumb or freedom? I don’t care. It’s awesome, righteous and protected by the founders who understood the importance, even symbolically, that being trusted with weapons means for a people.
[quote]
The tree of liberty may be a small bonsai here in comparison the the mighty General Sherman redwood there in Murica, but it requires far less watering with the blood of either patriots or tyrants.[/quote]
It’s all a matter of what we are willing to live with and without. No where is going to be perfect.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
That claim is stupid, [/quote]
So you didn’t click on, nor read the UN study I linked?
Gotcha.
Disingenuous and willfully ignorant. Great debate approach man, well played. [/quote]
Actually yes I did and as I told you you implying Europe has higher violent crime rates without taking into consideration some EU nations have over 30 VC classifications as opposed to the U.S 5 means that your conclusion is, well, ridiculous.
America is far more violent that Europe and trying to state otherwise is just beating a dead horse. Rather you would be better arguing that yes your society is very violent but it is worth having guns and the economic systems and institutions you have because personal freedoms and the right to bear arms are not worth trading for security or one of those famous slogans.
[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
Actually yes I did and as I told you you implying Europe has higher violent crime rates without taking into consideration some EU nations have over 30 VC classifications as opposed to the U.S 5 means that your conclusion is, well, ridiculous.[/quote]
SO you didn’t read the fucking link?
Great. We’ve established that.
Until you refute the UN’s own fucking study with something equally authoritative, you are completely speaking out of your fucking ass. You get that right?
I documented my claims with an anti-gun organization’s own studies. You’ve done nothing but make baseless claims.
[quote] Rather you would be better arguing that yes your society is very violent but it is worth having guns and the economic systems and institutions you have because personal freedoms and the right to bear arms are not worth trading for security or one of those famous slogans.
[/quote]
How about I pick my own arguments, because yours fucking suck?
I mean, anyone who can read the fucking preface knows that study makes all your baseless claims moot, null and void.
Jesus Christ. This is like trying to reason with a toddler, except the toddler is less lazy and more likely to accept real life.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
Actually yes I did and as I told you you implying Europe has higher violent crime rates without taking into consideration some EU nations have over 30 VC classifications as opposed to the U.S 5 means that your conclusion is, well, ridiculous.[/quote]
SO you didn’t read the fucking link?
Great. We’ve established that.
Until you refute the UN’s own fucking study with something equally authoritative, you are completely speaking out of your fucking ass. You get that right?
I documented my claims with an anti-gun organization’s own studies. You’ve done nothing but make baseless claims.
[quote] Rather you would be better arguing that yes your society is very violent but it is worth having guns and the economic systems and institutions you have because personal freedoms and the right to bear arms are not worth trading for security or one of those famous slogans.
[/quote]
How about I pick my own arguments, because yours fucking suck?[/quote]
What are you talking about I just addressed the link! The reason that it finds Euro VC rates higher is because Europe class far more crimes in the VC category, which means Europe actually counts more than five violent actions as violent crime. Which means the hundreds and thousands of violent crimes that happen in the U.S do not go down as VC.
If the U.S had the same way of collecting VC statistics it would blow Europe’s numbers out of the water. Refusing to acknowledge this is textbook cognitive dissonance.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I mean, anyone who can read the fucking preface knows that study makes all your baseless claims moot, null and void.
Jesus Christ. This is like trying to reason with a toddler, except the toddler is less lazy and more likely to accept real life. [/quote]
Yes the person calmly replying and explaining why the link you put up because violent crime is limited to five crimes in the U.S and way way more in Europe, meaning the numbers you cited were massively skewed.
Not the one swearing every other word and resorting to constantly proclaiming victory in self assuring and juvenile ways.
[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I mean, anyone who can read the fucking preface knows that study makes all your baseless claims moot, null and void.
Jesus Christ. This is like trying to reason with a toddler, except the toddler is less lazy and more likely to accept real life. [/quote]
Yes the person calmly replying and explaining why the link you put up because violent crime is limited to five crimes in the U.S and way way more in Europe, meaning the numbers you cited were massively skewed.
Not the one swearing every other word and resorting to constantly proclaiming victory in self assuring and juvenile ways. [/quote]
lol, Home boy… You can’t read either, just like my toddler…
from the preface of all places… I know it’s a lot of reading but jesus fucking Christ:
The
data are from surveys amongst the general public and therefore not influenced
by political or ideological agendas of governments of individual
countries. Standardisation of questionnaires used and other aspects of
data collection assure that data can, within confidence margins, be reliably
compared across countries. Independent reviews have attested to the
comparability of ICVS results (e.g. Lynch, 2006).
So you either didn’t read anything in the link, or are being disingenuous. You may think me swearing makes me juvenile, but your refusal to either accept facts or bring up any in refutation makes you… I don’t know, I’ll leave that up to the reader, what insult to toss in there.
That there “free” college education is calling you, they want their money back.
[quote]Musashi92 wrote:
What are you talking about I just addressed the link![/quote]
Nope, you didn’t even read the preface
[quote] The reason that it finds Euro VC rates higher is because Europe class far more crimes in the VC category, which means Europe actually counts more than five violent actions as violent crime. Which means the hundreds and thousands of violent crimes that happen in the U.S do not go down as VC.
If the U.S had the same way of collecting VC statistics it would blow Europe’s numbers out of the water. Refusing to acknowledge this is textbook cognitive dissonance.
[/quote]
lol, after you actually read the preface, PREFACE, you’ll sure feel dumb typing this, lmao.