Been following a lot of your mountain dog training principles.
However after reading your leg training article it does not seem you have squats in either phase I or II of the sample workouts, do you simply substitute hack squats for squats when you feel like it?
Or does anyone know if this is intentional?
i assume its intentional since the low back fatigue would be too much because you start with romanian deadlifts and such. doing back squats after would be tough. if you check out what he gives us for phase 3 (earlier in this thread) i believe he includes back squats with 3 second decent. so its not like hes against squats.
you could probably substitute front squats in phase 2. heels elevated, close stance, no lockout.
I you mean his stiff leg deadlifts for the hammies?
[quote]Mikeee wrote:
Been following a lot of your mountain dog training principles.
However after reading your leg training article it does not seem you have squats in either phase I or II of the sample workouts, do you simply substitute hack squats for squats when you feel like it?
Or does anyone know if this is intentional?[/quote]
Hi Mikee - those were just samples. I have squats in most of my workouts actually. All my routines are different for the most part. I love squats, it’s my favorite exercise 
Just stumbled upon this thread, I’ll give some thoughts…
JMs principles have changes the way I look at training, volume, and technique. I have implemented many of his training ideas into my own split. My favorites are 3 second negatives on leg presses and squats, partial reps for shoulders, and his very high volume approach to back training. I think if you look at my log, you can see that since January, I have been using a lot of these principles with great success and am very excited to see how they work when I am actually actively trying to gain again.
I also love squats and include them in nearly every leg session, whether they be first or last : ).
I fucking love Scot Abel.
Just dropping in to say that having CT, Meadows, Jim and Shelby on livespill is a gift from the gods.
bump bumpy bump
If it wasnt for JM i would still have shitty shoulders his training gave me a lot of ideas that made me have more progress without overhead pressing then with
The more experience/experimentation that I do seems to sway me more towards agreeing with John M. Funny that, because most of my training has always been based on low volume and high intensity (kind of prided myself in that lol), but there comes a point where you have to be open minded.
It’s good because the fact is that this training volume is not high all the time, and you pull back after certain periods. That in my experience works better than trying to figure out the “perfect” volume to do all the time (something that doesn’t exist because there will always be a point where nervous system fatigue catches up with you and the volume has to be reduced that much to the point where it does crap all for growth).
It’s easy to have pre-conceived notions about bodyparts like back/legs/shoulders, you tend to just group them into the same type of training you do for chest or whatever (heavy weight, low reps/sets)…but these especially respond well to higher volume and/or higher reps.
I think half the problem, apart from ego lifting, is that people who do “just the basics” all the time never look at themselves objectively. I mean really look in the mirror and see how you compare to the pro’s (not just how “big” you are with clothes on). Being constantly bulked up all the time, not realising how lagging behind certain muscle groups are (like hamstrings/rear delts/lats etc) is a big mistake IMO.
You need to lean out at some point (to actually SEE the muscles lol) and realise that maybe your “just squat” workout isn’t doing crap all for your hamstrings (as an example).
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
The more experience/experimentation that I do seems to sway me more towards agreeing with John M. Funny that, because most of my training has always been based on low volume and high intensity (kind of prided myself in that lol), but there comes a point where you have to be open minded.
It’s good because the fact is that this training volume is not high all the time, and you pull back after certain periods. That in my experience works better than trying to figure out the “perfect” volume to do all the time (something that doesn’t exist because there will always be a point where nervous system fatigue catches up with you and the volume has to be reduced that much to the point where it does crap all for growth).
It’s easy to have pre-conceived notions about bodyparts like back/legs/shoulders, you tend to just group them into the same type of training you do for chest or whatever (heavy weight, low reps/sets)…but these especially respond well to higher volume and/or higher reps.
I think half the problem, apart from ego lifting, is that people who do “just the basics” all the time never look at themselves objectively. I mean really look in the mirror and see how you compare to the pro’s (not just how “big” you are with clothes on). Being constantly bulked up all the time, not realising how lagging behind certain muscle groups are (like hamstrings/rear delts/lats etc) is a big mistake IMO.
You need to lean out at some point (to actually SEE the muscles lol) and realise that maybe your “just squat” workout isn’t doing crap all for your hamstrings (as an example).[/quote]
Good post.
Cheers ^
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]JCrisp91 wrote:
Check out this article where he goes into depth explaining why Dorian Yates trained his back wrong. I think a lot of them made similar outlandish claims that were really offputting.[/quote]
lol[/quote]
I’m so glad you still have that avatar
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]JCrisp91 wrote:
Check out this article where he goes into depth explaining why Dorian Yates trained his back wrong. I think a lot of them made similar outlandish claims that were really offputting.[/quote]
lol[/quote]
I’m so glad you still have that avatar[/quote]
XD
What do you guys think about Meadow’s back principles? I think he states doing rows initially and then doing stretching movements. I feel like if I row heavy first, my lats aren’t fully activated and arms jump into the mix. On the other hand if I do, lets say, kayak rows then rack chins and then rows, I feel the rows working much better. Any of you with similar experiences?
Also, what selection of exercises did you guys use as Phase I for Mountain DOg back training?
[quote]Gup wrote:
What do you guys think about Meadow’s back principles? I think he states doing rows initially and then doing stretching movements. I feel like if I row heavy first, my lats aren’t fully activated and arms jump into the mix. On the other hand if I do, lets say, kayak rows then rack chins and then rows, I feel the rows working much better. Any of you with similar experiences?
Also, what selection of exercises did you guys use as Phase I for Mountain DOg back training? [/quote]
i think it depends on form. i generally dont row for width but for thickness. so ya, maybe i dont feel my lats working hard when i row heavy but thats not what im going for anyways. i think the point of rowing first is to hit those heavy movements first to work the mid and upper back and then stretch movements to exhaust the lats.
[quote]actionboy wrote:
[quote]Gup wrote:
What do you guys think about Meadow’s back principles? I think he states doing rows initially and then doing stretching movements. I feel like if I row heavy first, my lats aren’t fully activated and arms jump into the mix. On the other hand if I do, lets say, kayak rows then rack chins and then rows, I feel the rows working much better. Any of you with similar experiences?
Also, what selection of exercises did you guys use as Phase I for Mountain DOg back training? [/quote]
i think it depends on form. i generally dont row for width but for thickness. so ya, maybe i dont feel my lats working hard when i row heavy but thats not what im going for anyways. i think the point of rowing first is to hit those heavy movements first to work the mid and upper back and then stretch movements to exhaust the lats.
[/quote]
Yeah rowing is for overall thickness and you have to pull right otherwise you aren’t doing it properly.
Much of it depends on elbow position - keep elbows tight (pull elbows inwards, not flaring out to the side, and pull lower vs towards the chest).
Rowing should be more of a “shrugging” movement, pulling the shoulder blades together while minimising biceps involvement. Can take a while before you get that good MMC which may include getting just the right ROM especially for those with long arms.