I’m hoping to give the above mentioned program a shot, but I’m running into issues. I know the deal with picking out exercises etc, but I’m running into issues:
A-Knowing how many weeks to run it for before I test for maxes, reset.
B- I’ve done the Bill Starr 5x5 so I know how many weeks and what percentages of my maxes to do when. I don’t know what to do when here.
C-Just a general question, for those who have done this which did you feel more pop/better results from-3x3/3x5/3x7?
Any ideas for this, or am I better off running the Bill Starr 5x5 again?
i dont know this program but if people who study it cant find info on such basic things(like most important things in a program) i would say its either a shit program, or a shit writer.
Wendler also is all over the place, but ALL the info is actually in the books. If you have studied this and still dont even know HOW LONG is a program, i dont even know why would you want to do it.
Hey man, it’s cool to see someone interested in the Tier System. It isn’t talked about much.
First, to answer your questions:
A: If you’re doing it properly, you have built-in tests. Similar to standard conjugate programming, you should have a variety of max-effort lower exercises (squat variations), max-effort upper exercises (presses usually) and max-effort total exercises (deadlifts or Olympic lifts)
B: The Tier System isn’t about percentages. You have max-effort exercises where you move the heaviest load possible for 1-3 reps. You have repetition-effort exercises where you move a very challenging load for 1-5 sets of 8-15 reps. You finally have dynamic-effort exercises, where you do 5-12 sets of 1-3 reps as fast as possible. Strictly speaking, you use jumps (dynamic effort lower), throws (dynamic effort upper) and Olympic lifts (dynamic effort total). You can do speed bench, speed pulls and speed squats, in which case you will use 40-50% total bar weight, as per Westside Principles
Based on A and B, a “standard” Tier System template should look something like:
MONDAY:
ME Lower: Squat variation to 1-5RM
DE Upper: Throw or Speed Bench: 8 x 3
RE Whole: Clean or Snatch Pull: 3-5 x 4-6
4A. RE Lower: Single-Leg: 3 x 8-12
4B. RE Upper: Row or Chin-Up: 3 x 8-12
WEDNESDAY:
ME Upper: Push Variation to 1-5RM
DE Whole: Power Snatch or Power Clean: 8 x 3
RE Lower: RDL Variation: 3 x 6-10
4A. RE Upper: Row or Chin-Up: 3 x 8-12
4B. RE Lower: Back Extension or GHR: 3 x 8-12
FRIDAY:
ME Whole: Deadlift Variation or Clean: to 1-5RM
DE Lower: Jump or Speed Squat: 8 x 3
RE Upper: Bench variation: 3 x 6-10
4A. RE Upper: Row or Chin-Up: 3 x 8-12
4B. RE Lower: Single-Leg: 3 x 8-12
You can also choose to perform DE before ME, should you wish to prioritise speed and power
C: That depends if you want to get better at sets of 3, 5 or 7
That said, I have some overall concerns about the use of this strategy.
Firstly, as @hankthetank89 pointed out, I don’t think the information you’ve had about the Tier System has been very good. Where did you hear about this program?
The Tier System is not a powerlifting program, it is a program made to develop athletes, namely football players. Everything about the program is designed to train groups of 40+ athletes in as efficient environment is possible. So, what is your goal and why do you want to do this program?
If you want info from the source, google “Tier System Joe Kenn”. The first search result is a PDF PowerPoint presentation on the program, published by Coach Kenn himself. It should answer all your questions
In OP’s defense, the Tier System is a very successful program that was developed by Joe Kenn, one of the most highly-regarded football strength coaches in the world.
That said, quality information is hard to come by because this program is aimed squarely at developing athletes, and the fast majority of strength training information available does not serve this population.
Well thats what i ment. I dont know the program but going by what OP is concerned about, the info is either bad or he just doesnt know enough to run it. I wouldnt run a program i don’t understand. We fuck up running programs we think we understand, lol.
Conjugate guys don’t agree on how often to test your lifts. Sometimes they say only max out comp lifts at the meet and use “testers” like the floor press in between. Other times they say to test your lifts after about 8 weeks of training.
If you use lots of variety on ME days, and your crazy lifts are a lot different than the classic lifts it might be better to do the classics every 6 weeks.
If one of your lifts in particular is lacking you might think about testing sooner, like every 4-5 weeks, to see if the training you’re doing is working.
Do you have any solid “indicators”, like variant lift that correspond to your comp lifts? How long do you think you can go without testing your maxes, without making yourself nervous, anxious or crazy?
Hi! For starters, thanks for that level of detail in your answer, I’m much obliged and appreciative!
So I get the efforts required, pending on the days and order-100% good to go! So based on the template you were kind enough to send, I think mine will look like:
MONDAY:
ME Lower: Traditional Squat to 1-5RM
DE Upper: Flat Bench: 8 x 3
RE Whole: PQ: 3-5 x 4-6
WEDNESDAY:
ME Upper: OHP Press to 1-5RM
DE Whole: Snatch: 8 x 3
RE Lower: Front SQ: 3 x 6-10
FRIDAY:
ME Whole: RDL: to 1-5RM
DE Lower: Jump or Speed Squat: 8 x 3
RE Upper: ICBP : 3 x 6-10
I can’t recall where I heard about this program, but I’ve done Bill Starr programs previously and loved it. I’ve gotten lax in recent years, but withy wedding in August +!flag football around the corner, the way I see it, this + daily vertical climber sessions for 8 weeks or so before switching to Bill Starr and EMS sessions oughta help!
Having a look over the template you wrote, I do have some suggestions:
If you’re going to keep the same exercises week-to-week for the ME movement, I recommend:
Be deliberate with your rep selection. On week 1, do a 1RM on Monday, a 3RM on Wednesday and a 5RM on Friday. The next week, a 3RM on Monday, a 5RM on Wednesday and a 1RM on Friday. On the third week, a 5RM on Monday, a 1RM on Wednesday and a 3RM on Friday. This will help manage fatigue better.
Stay away from a true Max more than once a week
In your template, the overall volume at a high RPE is low. You need at least a bit might high-RPE volume to stimulate hypertrophy. I strongly recommend doing the 4A/B pairs. If you really want to stick to 3 exercises per session (I’m not too sure why you would), then do 1-2 back-off sets of 3-5 at 85-95% of the top-set
If you want to do extra cardiovascular training (a very good idea!), I recommend simply doing 30-60min of aerobic exercise at 60-75% of your max heart rate (220 - your age) on your days off from lifting. This will burn calories, but most importantly it will train your cardiovascular system without taxing your muscular or neural recovery. It’s also a WHO recommendation to reduce mortality.
It depends on other factors like your lifestyle, stress, sleep, nutrition and want you plan on doing with the climber. I assumed it was HIIT you were planning. If that is the case, then daily climber HIIT probably isn’t the best idea
Thank you sir! I think you said to run this for about 9 weeks or so? Looking forward to checking I. With results on this after completing it and (most importanlty) not eating/drinking like a jackass!