Apparently this is the person that promptly alerted superiors when he spotted abuses to Iraqi prisoners. He is the guy that blew the whistle on his peers.
Is this guy a hero?
He is obviously a hero.
He is a guy who made the decision that he felt was right in a difficult circumstance. I don’t imagine that it was an easy decision and having never been in the situation myself, I can’t make any kind of judgement regarding his behavior.
I’d go with hero also.
I’m not sure hero is the word. He is a guy who was confronted with a decision and chose the honorable one. Having done something to correct wrongdoing may make him may make him a better person but hero may be a bit strong. He can, at least, know his conscience is clear.
All I know is he is a Honorable man who followed his conscious and did the right thing.
If Joe Darby were my husband/father/son, I’d be so proud of him for doing the right thing…so yes, that makes him a hero to me.
How many others must’ve witnessed what was going on and chose to say nothing, and now have to live with the consequences.
I’d buy him a beer. Hero.
He’s not the only one. The story got media attention because the father of one of the charged men saw that the military was going to nail a few people, including his son, but let the officers in charge get away. Basically from my experience it’s the typical “shit rolls down hill” military ethic. Officers skate while their men hang. Anyway when his legislators failed to respond he contacted Col. David Hackworth who put 60 Minutes on the story.
We wouldn’t be embarrassed as a nation if he hadn’t done so, but then the right thing wouldn’t have been done either. Rarely are the good things done in the dark of night, or behind a veil.
I had expected to see some posts from the other side.
Where are those that are always talking about the media costing American lives and detracting from the war effort? Surely this is a detraction from the war effort, demoralizing and a rallying cry for the fanatic islamics…
However, yes, I do feel he is a hero. A good man in a dark time.
It is a demoralizing and a tremendous media debacle, but that is a separate issue. I think that most people, regardless of politics, can appreciate and respect the courage it took to go against his peers and come forward. It takes balls to do that in a normal circumstance, but I think even more so in a military environment.
Keep in mind everybody, that while these acts were shitty, they may very well have sabotaged our war effort. He isn’t a hero, he’s just a guy who reported wrongdoing, and in the process may cause the deaths of more of our boys. Personally, I wish that this was dealt with in a very discreet fashion rather than telling the world that us Americans are assholes. I’m not saying that what they did to those prisoners was the right thing, (although I’d rough 'em up a little bit too, but I wouldn’t sodomize them), but this should have never been made aware to the public. Sometimes leaving things unsaid is the best way to go. RLTW
rangertab75
I’m against the war, but I don’t see this as a rallying cry against the war…I would hope it causes a rallying cry against whatever situation let this happen, and whoever is responsible.
I think that just about all of the war supporters -never- included that sort of treatment of innocent people in their idea of what needed to be done in Iraq. I may be naive, but I think that most people supporting the war support it because they really believe that it’s helping to make the world a better place.
I would hate to put pro-war people into the position of having to defend the de-humanization of anyone. Just because someone supports the war it doesn’t mean they support those sort of actions…that’s like saying that because someone’s a liberal, they’re automatically “for” killing babies via abortion, which isn’t necessarily true, and it doesn’t help solve anything.
I don’t think he’s a hero. I do think he followed his conscience and did the right thing.
I worry sometimes that we have defined down really big words by overuse: “awesome,” “amazing”, “genius” and “hero”, for example. Overuse of a term dilutes its meaning.
It depends. If the torture was for fun then he’s right but if the torture was used to get information that could save lives…
War is war. Terrorism can’t be fought with convetional methods. Sometimes you have to lower yourself to their level so they get the message…DON’T FUCK WITH US AGAIN.
I still claim we fight too civilized.
It will get worse, trust me.
Hero? No.
Honorable? Perhaps, but I’d need to know more about the TRUTH of the matter.
Hmm, yes, but if the ends justify the means then you become what you are fighting… what then?
At the risk of sidetracking my own thread, if you decide non-citizens have zero rights and citizens have reduced rights, where does it stop? All men are created equal (apoligies to feminists) are they not! Are some Iraqis subhuman? Are some Americans subhuman?
If this should have been kept hush-hush, as one poster suggested, then where is the check on government to keep it from going out of control? The public is supposed to know that it’s government is enacting policies resulting in this type of behavior. This government is supposed to be better than the one it has toppled, or what whas the point?
The war against Iraq is not the usual sort of war. It was a preemptive strike that appears to have been done in mistake, unless the WMD’s used as justification are eventually found. It is a mistake, people there are pissed, it is doing nothing to save American lives at home and it is converting moderate Arabs into fundamentalists.
So, one of the greatest precepts of American law, that of being innocent until proven guilty, is thrown out when dealing with people in Iraq. An innocent Iraqi, who is happy to have us there saving them, will be treated with contempt, assumed to be guilty and converted into a resistance supporter and nobody is supposed to care. It’s war after all, these things happen.
I would argue that Joe Darby is a hero because of the risk that he took. His report could have been buried, he could have been shuttled off somewhere to be kept out of trouble, or worse. After all, if he’s making waves, he isn’t with us, so he must be against us, an Iraqi sympathizer traitor who will cost lives and embarrass us to the world.
The whole thing is a pile of shit and it stinks bad.
I think the US is happily marching down the wrong path. It is eroding the values that made it great. It is creating enemies out of people that it professes to want as friends. It is dividing the world and creating combative situations between countries (non-Arabic countries).
No, this doesn’t make me anti-American, it makes we pro-American, because I want America to be what it stands for, but I don’t think it is. Saying so, and why, is what free speech is about.
A hero ain’t nothing but a sandwich. He did the right thing, bottom line.
I don’t know if hero is the right word either. I think that it shows a strength of character that is rarely seen in today’s world. As far as the pictures go, I think we need to keep things in perspective. We are not killing prisoners and we are not posting videos of US Soldiers decapitating civilians on websites. I am not condoning all of the activities that are pictured. The fact that the soldiers are taking pictures for their own enjoyment is bad enough. I see nothing wrong with using some of the measures pictured to get information.
Me Solomon Grundy
I agree with Solomon Grundy. Some of the acts depicted were wrong, but if the guys won’t talk, what are we supposed to do?? Just say “Oh ok. We don’t want to hurt your feelings or bruise your pride, so we aren’t going to do anything to get you to talk.” Fuck that. Those bastards are talking, and if not, I would do things that would make them sing like a canary. Lives were probably saved because those prisoners spilled their guts to the intel boys. As a soldier, I woulld expect the same to be done to me…God forbid. Worse things have been done in the past, so stop acting like this is something new. Abuse of POW’s goes hand in hand with war. What we do today instead of torturing prisoners, is that we deprive them of sleep, and their senses (i.e. hoods over the head, isolation), and yes, the occasional beating. Maybe if the POW is lucky he’ll even get a .45 stuck in his mouth. Just curious, what do you people think now since that civillian was decapitated? What would YOU do if we captured the guys that did that? Be nice to him??? I hardly think so. RLTW
Rangertab, I do understand what you are saying. However, what you are saying is a sharp blade that cuts both ways.
If war justifies everything, then that is true for the enemies treatment of us as well as our treatment of them.
If islamic fundamentalists are at war with the west, then their treatment of us, our soldiers, our civilians, is inherently justified because they are at war, so tough luck if we don’t like it.
We are upset that non-combatants are being killed, but hey, that happens during a war all the time, so who gives a shit. This is the line used to describe collateral damage in Iraq is it not? I mean, at least we try to minimize it.
Countries in the past tried to set up some civilized rules for waging war. Things such as the Geneva convention were agreed to by many countries. Should these ideals be ignored because they are inconvenient?
The argument we hear all the time is that ignoring behavioral costraints may save lives. There is the possibility that this is in fact true. We quickly get into the question of how much is one American life worth? Is it worth torturing fifteen innocent Iraqis and killing several non-combatant familes over the course of the war?
I would counter that treating anyone who is not American as worthless is costing American lives. It creates more fanatics willing to go to war. It creates anger and resentment out of a populace that can simply choose never to cooperate. What is the cost of creating an additional 100,000 recruits for the fanatical anti-west cause?
Of course, it is very difficult to measure these costs and so much easier to measure the value of a piece of intelligence extracted from someone. I won’t argue it, intelligence is valuable and can save lives, help achieve objectives and so on.
Do I have the answers? No. I’ve lived and worked in the US even though I am a Canadian. I love it there. I love the US. Canada is not all that much different in case you aren’t aware. However, as I am a friend to the US I find it my duty to point out that my friend might be screwing things up.
You know, hey buddy, you’ve got a beautiful and loving wife and a wonderful family, why are you screwing that skanky whore down the street?
The US has great concepts concerning freedom, justice, value of life and so on. These are in the process of being subverted just a little bit. As a country long known for championing human rights you might want to apply these ideals to everyone.
My friend, why oh why are you screwing that skanky whore down the street? It may be convenient right now, but nothing good will come of it.
Get over your anger and do what you know is right. This doesn’t mean you can’t fight wars or protect citizens, but it might mean that you have to control your urges and consider your actions a bit more. Don’t let that whore seduce you into losing all the honor and respect you’ve earned.
V