It seems to me the more I hear about all this alleged abuse, the more inclined I am to think that the general public just isn’t meant to hear what really goes on in warfare.
It’s easy to get moralistic, as I have done in the past, yet lets face it, going around shooting people isn’t pleasant. I am in no way advocating the sexual and other mental abuse that went on, BUT, should this not really be a matter that should have been dealt with by the internal military structure.
It seems to me that the general public are only shown certain emotive images in an attempt to shape public opinion. Why were we not shown the beheading of the worker today? For if that had actually been shown, I’m sure a lot more people would be disgusted by that.
As Anglo Saxons we are not without fault, we are trying to do the right thing, but can we withstand the critics in the meantime? It just seems to me that with this war, it has really highlighted that no matter how justified the cause may be, the act of war is just too much for ‘modern society’ to handle.
Vroom
I hear exactly where your coming from and agree with your views.
RangerTab
I think there is bigger picture to look at then slapping a few prisoners around for intel. Not to take anything away from our fine reserve soldiers, but they do not have the same level of training as an active unit that is constantly training, but you had low ranking reserve soldiers and not very many of them thrown into a situation where
there responsible for an extremally large amount of prisoners. In that situation there is going to be a breakdown in supervision and discipline.
That goes back to being sent over there with not enough manpower to get the job done right.
Another thing RangerTab if these photos were being done soley for critical intel to save Americans why were pictures being taken? Because they were doing for enjoyement!
If you want to make a pragmatic, utilitarian argument, then I’d suggest that it is NOT in one’s best interests to radicalize the local population by abusing prisoners of war. Our only chance with Iraqis is to convince them that we’re there to make them better off than Hussein.
Joe Darby did the right thing and that probably took some guts, but I’d stop short of calling him a hero. A good example yes, a hero no.
As for the abuse at Abu Ghirab, it can’t be justified, it can’t be rationalized. It is wrong and immoral. FYI there are even worse pictures that the Gov’t is trying hard to keep under wraps, including one of an Iraqi being attacked by dogs and a female Iraqi being raped. This problem goes well beyond softening up prisoners for interrogation or mere humiliation, it goes into actions that are sadistic and criminal.
The war against terrorism is more than just a military struggle. It is a war of perceptions, and to defeat the fundamentalists America must offer an alternative to their bleak and bloody worldview, one of tolerance,freedom, and respect for the rule of law. If Americans themselves cannot achieve these ideals, what hope is there for the Afghans or Iraqis?
About 2% of the detainees have been charged with anything. They are getting ready to free up a huge number of detainees.
According to thr Red Cross, 70 to 90 percent of the prisoners have been detained without any justification.
That means that many (if not most) of the prisoners who were abused probably didn’t do jack shit, they were just caught up in a sweep.
I’d like to know what crucial information was gained from any prisoner who was abused? Anything at all? I sincerely doubt it.
According to the Army, torture doesn’t work as an interrogation tool, it results in unreliable information. A prisoner will say anything he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.
When someone is in your custody you have the moral obligation to prevent these types of things from happening. I applaud anyone who stands up and speaks out against this type of treatment. There is never a need to torture people. basic human rights were violated. That’s not what this country is all about.
“I worry sometimes that we have defined down really big words by overuse: “awesome,” “amazing”, “genius” and “hero”, for example. Overuse of a term dilutes its meaning.”
Exactly the reason why the word Owesome was invented (also spelled OH-some, or O-some!). This way you can pull out the awesome all the time and save the Oh!-some!! for special occasions.
And if someone uses, “wicked owesome!” you might as well run away because that’s more Owesome than anyone can handle. Trust me.
Hero. We aren’t the animals. We enter this country with the intent of preventing behavior such as this, with the intent to show them life after Saddam. These pictures are a pathetic display of the values that our flag is supposed to stand for.